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[nenjin]

heh, opps.  Ill take it out, since I solved that issue anywho.

The body horror in this game is real.  And probably one of the more fridge horrorish bits here.  Is it all cthulu inspired bits that play on body horror?

Not all. While the violation of the body was definitely a theme for Lovecraft works, it's only in the modern era where we really started visualizing this stuff that it truly became about body horror.

[TempAcc]

Lovecraft was never very specific or detailed with his descriptions of horrors of any kind, often prefering to imply things rather than outright say them, so ye.

Altough the game sure does make some use of fridge horror.

One instance I rather like is how, when you're finishing a warrens run, the narrator will sometimes say something like "these experiments should never have been done". Its never explained just what kind of experiments he's talking about, when they took place and what was the goal, but considering you're fighting hordes of manpigs, its not hard to imagine.

[pisskop]

Well, given the lore around the warrens that Ive seen in-game . . .

Ancestor didn't build the warrens.  He was digging in the Ruins (which are are refered to in-gamecode as the crypt, leaving me to suspect that the location above DD is actually his manor), and found the warrens under or adjacent to them at some point.  Given the presence of books and other alchemical/storage props in the ruins I suspect it was a workroom of some kind that doubled as storage facility and burial for the lesser members of the staff.

Anywho, the warrens existed well before settlers even arrived on-location.  I dont know what they were populated with, but the Ancestor began using it as a holding pen for various mutations and experiments.  The wiki says that the pig-men were crafted by the ancestor, and they either maintained their intellect or were possessed by a force with sentience.  Keep in mind that we don't know how long the Ancestor has been dead or how long he lived.  Or how long he waited for us.  It could be he has been dead for thousands of ingame years.  During this time the pigmen must have mutated/diversified.

Ancestor says the erperiments should have never been done because, like all his work, he regrets them in death (or whatever his ultimate fate), but unlike the others, he was never an expert in flesh-crafting/blood sacrificing.  Or at least he was less interested and proficient and spent less time on them than other things.

The warrens are essentially Ancestors middin.  He ended up throwing his failures in there.  They just happened to survive because magic. 

[EnigmaticHat]

The warrens imply a whole lot of humans were and are eaten there.  Easily the most revolting of the settings.

There is a question as to where all these people who keep dying are coming from.  You could say the zombies, plant horrors, and slime-surrounding-skeletons are all using long dead corpses as a "base".  But that doesn't explain who the bandits rob to support themselves, or where the pigmen are stealing food/abducting people from.  It seems unlikely that one village could support all that without being destroyed, but the setting seems like such a desolate backwater that it raises questions... maybe the land the game is set in is closer to civilization than it might appear?

[pisskop]

Id love to see he world outside the dungeons expanded upon.  You do raids for food and medicine; to clear he road of rotting bodies and to cleanse shrines.

I'd love to see an actual effect had on the village hamlet you presumably support or find out this is a national plight that gets worse towards the center.  The warrens could be miles long.

Let me find out that this is happening on a huge island, or that without the corrupting influence of the DD nearby the ability of the fungus/pigsty/merdudes to spread is limited to more mundane means that are surpressed by goernmental efforts.

[debvon]

The warrens imply a whole lot of humans were and are eaten there.  Easily the most revolting of the settings.

There is a question as to where all these people who keep dying are coming from.  You could say the zombies, plant horrors, and slime-surrounding-skeletons are all using long dead corpses as a "base".  But that doesn't explain who the bandits rob to support themselves, or where the pigmen are stealing food/abducting people from.  It seems unlikely that one village could support all that without being destroyed, but the setting seems like such a desolate backwater that it raises questions... maybe the land the game is set in is closer to civilization than it might appear?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The brigands were hired by the ancestor to seize control of the hamlet after peasants got upset about his experimenting. After shit hit the fan they just started plundering the estate and have been doing so ever since, using the (multiple?) massive cannons to fortify their territory. I guess there's so much gold at the estate that they've sustained themselves off of that alone.

It would make sense that the warrens are close enough to civilization that hunting parties go out and bring back food. But maybe they're just feeding off of the brigands, the hags, and each other. Some of the mutations point to natural selection. Small malformed pigmen defend themselves with projectile vomit/specialized tasks to stay useful to the alpha-pigs (war drums, pigs that seem to have been strapped in armor against their will and hands replaced with hooks, flag-servants for the swine god). There's obviously a hierarchy that involves size. Useless pigmen get turned into useful sausage.

In any case it's fun to speculate about that world, maybe it'd even make a good book. Hell I'd buy it. I hope they expand on it more when they get around to releasing the rest of the game. They've done a good job of it so far.

[EnigmaticHat]

I don't really buy the whole pigmen-eating-each-other thing unless we except that conservation of energy plain doesn't work in this universe.  Which is possible, but pigmen seem largely mundane.

[nenjin]

I find it a little ironic that, at the end of the day, the theme of DD is still stronger than the gameplay.

[pisskop]

Here's what I got.  Ive set all them up, and am composing the encounter party lists now.

I still need a boss.  Ill see what I can think of, but Im currently drawing a blank.

Spoiler: room/hall lists (click to show/hide)

  -Halls-
-brawler, brawler, witch, witch
-tentacle, tentacle, hindsight, witch
-rabble, rabble, brawler, witch
-tentacle, tentacle, shard, shard
-tentacle, tentacle, tentacle, shard
-rabble, rabble, rabble, shard
-hunger, rabble, rabble, summoner
-skelington, skelington, skelington, summoner
-skeleton, skeleton, summoner, summoner]
-tentacle, tentacle, tentacle, tentacle
-rabble, rabble, rabble, hindsight
-rabble, rabble, rabble, shard

-tentacle, tentacle, witch
-tentacle, tentacle, summoner
-rabble, rabble, witch
-rabble, rabble, shard
-hindsight, brawler, brawler
-vigil, hunger summoner

-hunger, witch
-vigil, hunger
-tentacle, tentacle
-rabble, rabble
-brawler, brawler
-shard, summoner
-summoner, summoner
-brawler, witch


  -rooms-
-brawler, brawler, witch, vigor
-rabble, rabble, rabble, hindsight
-rabble, vigil, vigor, summoner
-tentacle, brawler, brawler, vigor
-vigil, vigil, hindsight, hindsight

-vigil, hindsight, shard
-brawler, brawler, vigor
-vigil, vigil, vigor
-vigil, vigil, hindsight

I think maybe 1 more decent melee monster would complete the list.  And the boss, oc.


pedit:  heroes, right.

I need a party of 4 level 1 heroes to mimic.

my favorite heroes, taken alone:
>bounty hunter
>occultist
>crusader
>plague doctor

-valid parties themes for the ai:
>mark/damage with a second focus on defense
>bleed/blight with a second focus on stunning
>position swapping with a front/back row power-move
>nerf/attrittion build

occultist is too nope.  vestel?  highwayman? man-at-arms?  I plan to corrupt any powers that seem to out-there for the ai or the theme of evil.  any ideas for a good party the ai wont suck as?  And also a good boss for a bug themed dungeon.

Spoiler: my ideas (click to show/hide)

>Bleed/blight
>Mark and stun
>slot madness
>directly strengthened
>Experimental focus (riposte, dodging, debuffing, etc)
>balanced


>>DoT
-bounty hunter
-grave robber
-hellion
-highwayman
-houndmaster
-jester
-occultist
-plague doctor

>>mark and stun
-arbalest
-bounty hunter
-houndmaster
-manatarms
-occultist
-plague doctor

>>slot madness
-crusader
-grave robber
-highwayman
-jester
-manatarms

>>directly strong
-arbalest
-bounty hunter
-crusader
-hellion
-leper
-manatarms

>>experimental
-arbalest
-bounty hunter
-houndmaster
-manatarms
-vestel

Spoiler: Teams (click to show/hide)

DD boss setup

1) DOT1
hellion
grave robber
plague doctor
jester

2) MARK1
houndmaster
bounty hunter
occultist
arbalest

3) SM1
crusader
highwayman
grave robber
jester

4) DPT1
leper
crusader
hellion
manatarms

5) EXP1
houndmaster
manatarms
vestel
arbalest

6) CLA1
crusader
hghwayman
vestel
plague doctor

You also have your 'funzies' versions, like 4 crusaders, 4 vestels, or w.e.

[Cthulhu]

I always figured the place was way more bustling and populous before the Ancestor did his thing.  They were opulent and imperial and that doesn't suggest they presided over a swampy weald and a tiny hamlet and that's it. The skulls in the warrens could also be the workers he hired to excavate.

[nenjin]

Plus it'd go with the theme of corruption that runs throughout the game. Nice, fertile land turned into a desolate, remote, bedeviled place.

[Neonivek]

I keep considering getting this game

But my fear is it will just be another one of those games that is so tough that it stresses me out and I have to feel "prepared" before playing it again leading me to never actually playing it.

[pisskop]

its lost its edge since when I bought it.

its got a learning curve and a creul rng, but sticking with it will let you prevail.

much as I hate losing I love feeling like I only send out 4 dudes cuz everyone is dead, insane, or busy.

that stress of a limited pool or heroes and you have no sane healers and no base facilities is just awesome.  as a person who legit finds pleasure in suffering  and despair it can get there.

Also fun still is that transition from a level 2 dungeon to a level 3 one.  The Ruins has 6 leveled lists of monster parties, but going from skeleton defenders to skelton captains and ghouls, man.

and swinetaurs.  The warrens is def my favorite place.  And the characters/teams I prefer do best there

[Boltgun]

I keep considering getting this game

But my fear is it will just be another one of those games that is so tough that it stresses me out and I have to feel "prepared" before playing it again leading me to never actually playing it.

Yes, this is a stressful game, not frightening, but you will play with your guts. It is turn based so you can take time to consider actions but you will need to handle crisis situations and all your options will cost you. Sometimes you are obviously losing and have to either accept failure of roll the dice and pray to the eldrich gods that your character will make it to next turn.

On the other hand, there is no failure state, no game over screen, and you are never stuck.

[pisskop]

-The shard launchers are straight up brutal with their bleed debuffs/bleed attacks.  A team of 4 of them, left alive too long, put my vestel at 8 bleeding points for 5 rounds.
-The tentacle dogs are less dangerous and more annoying, but have a pretty high crit rate.
-I tested my beast master, which is just a hollowed out houndmaster converted to the enemy's stable attack setting.  he was . . . a support role character, but had higher stats than most critters around him.  Houndman was never meant to specialize, after all.

Spoiler: Proof of Concept (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Too much loot? (click to show/hide)

how do sound?  I have all the animations I care for, but the enemy makes no sound when hitting/hit.



Pedit:  the debug says Im missing events, but damned if I know how to fix that.  The sounds not really accessible to me.  How do?

In other news, I knew crusaders were OP, but as an enemy they scare the bullocks out of me.  A level 1 crusader is doing 9-18 smite damage rounded up to unholy.  4 other them obliterated my troops with holy lance, which Ive nerfed with a debuff.  The game also tries to crash when I use some combination of the enemy targeting multiple friendlies, darkness, and bolster.