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Author Topic: Antmen  (Read 5069 times)

Tierre

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2013, 08:14:42 am »

Well i think it will go to starcraft/zerg area soon enough:) Maybe they can't use weapons BUT can have a lot of different creatures as pets for war? Use giant beetles/scorpions, wasps/hornets for defence and attacking and use ant swarm only as last stand choice?
Also make caste transformation cost a lot of metal (what the heck - it should be useful for something) and make all castes sexless except for winged noble males and ant queen female with a lot of children. Also.................. why not make ant queen almost immobile (speed 10000 comes to mind) pet like the previous (much missed by many players) concubine? And all the other ants won't have any other means of making children. Forgot/lost queen - have FUN surviving:)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 08:17:55 am by Tierre »
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dukea42

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2013, 09:13:49 am »

I kinda saw them as have 4 arms and using weapons and armor completely foreign in nature. Like they could use giant "iron mandibles" that are really like big scissor claws. Weildable for them because of their extra arms. Maybe that's also the digger tool for them as an expansion to their primarive tunneling cousins. Stat-wise is it truly different than a great axe or maul? No, but thematically it's very different.  Other important weapon would be extreme pikes and polearms. They face many deadly beasts in the caverns so range would important.

For armor and clothing it's all chitin based. What's it to them to increase their Exoskeleton so they all learn armor using and armor making very fast. The master chitin crafters can weld various metals onto the chitin plates.

It'll be important for then to maintain beetle farms for dew and chitin.
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eloidin

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2013, 10:25:07 am »

i like the chitin idea, however i think you should be able to make a squad of deadslow heave hitters to draw the attention away from the less armored crossbow and shield squads.
So maybe make heavy steel squads only viable when supported by other squads..
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CuriousCreativity

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2013, 03:43:06 am »

Meph suggested I stop in an say "Hi" in the thread here.

I've started work and you can expect a release of my 'concept' of the Antmen race in the next month or so.

A fair warning, however: although I am going the somewhat naturalistic/rudimentary "Ant" route, it is shaping up to be quite complex.  At last brainstorm, I think the entire reproductive path from lowly ant to Antman was ~20 individual steps.  The entire project is based off of real life ant research - i.e. castes, etc.

Because of the way in which DF deals with spawning civ members, and my insistence on having a real life based ant life-cycle, military seems to be heading in a very unique direction.  Think autonomous civilian ants, with reasonably powerful natural attacks, that have a tendency toward rage when enemies are close to the hive, supported by elite AntMEN squads with many of the trappings of humanoid combat.

I'm up for suggestions, but I tend to see coding projects I work on as my "baby" so to speak.  However, support the idea with research about real ants and I can't say no :)  Honeypot, trap-jaw, stinging, etc. are already on the roadmap, for those who have mentioned ideas in that direction.  So is a unique fungus cultivating system.

Cheers!
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Tierre

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2013, 05:34:21 am »

Might be a good idea (but hard to do) to change tileset a bit. Ants are going to be growing a lot of things and maybe even grow their own waorkshops, which may require tiles which are not present now.
I think they totally should grow their workshops like they do their pets, maybe from special pet/larvae.
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dukea42

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2013, 06:50:33 am »

Don't think that's modable but to borrow another Zerg idea, "drones" could be created as an item that is used to contruct the buildings. Essentially the same as Orc labor camps.
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Tierre

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2013, 07:33:48 am »

Yeah you can make a reaction which turns an ant of some specific caste into a TOOL:WORKSHOP_LARVA which is required for most workshops.
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Pascale

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2013, 10:21:22 am »

According to some random article I googled, carpenter ants are capable of squirting poison/glue all over the place when they're doing poorly in combat. Since the magmamancer-turned-firemage does that in Dwarf mode (though with fire) would it be possible to do something like that here?
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CuriousCreativity

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2013, 11:24:13 am »

Tierre,

In the end, Antmen will indeed have custom sprites.  In other mods, this normally involves only the 'entities', i.e. the Ants themselves.  Sprites are a very time consuming process - we will have to see :)  As far as growing workshops: I will have to speak to Meph, but I don't see how they could be directly 'grown'.  That said, requiring a grown product as a build material to create the workshop is definitely do-able.


Tierre/dukea42,

My initial concept something similar... Trying to work out the life-cycle there was some toying with the idea of having the Queen be an item required to build the workshop responsible for producing eggs.  That was kind of scrapped because that would essentially make the Queen un-kill-able.  In the current incarnation of the life-cycle, eggs are indeed items, and must mature before being hatched.

I have been trying to come up with a use for drones in general...  In real life they are usually hatched in waves along with queens before the nuptial flight.  They leave the colony almost immediately to fertilize the queens on the nuptial flight and the queens store that sperm for pretty much their entire lives.  There is usually very little if any fertilization ongoing in the colony as the queen simply stores the sperm from the nuptial flight to fertilize the eggs.  This creates the problem that drones are quite useless.  So, it is not out of the question that they could be implemented in the ways you guys have discussed, honestly, I haven't what the heck to do with them :P  I can't really simulate the nuptial flight....  A thought that crossed my mind was to create a workshop somewhat similar to the Thieves tunnel, and have a reaction that represented the nuptial flight and the founding of new colonies.  No idea as of now however.

Pascale,

Indeed.  I intend to implement spitting ants, and yes, they are definitely do-able :) If glue is implemented, think creatures that shoot webs, poison is simply a re-purpose of existing special attacks/interactions.

Notes:

The current caste system involves the queen(pet/civ-member) laying eggs(seeds) which are planted to mature then harvested.  The Mature eggs are then hatched to create larva that are combined with food/fed to transform into pupa that are fed/hardened to transform into workers that go through the real life process of advancing through minima worker, median worker, maxima worker phases.  This is over-layered with a very fantastical process of evolution from Ant through Giant Ant through Antman, etc.  Essentially, you embark with lowly ants and through a process advance your colony from lowly ants through intermediaries such as giant ants and on to the humanoid form Antmen.  This is counter-balanced by the fact that ants are, well, numerous.  I am toying with the idea of removing the lesser more mundane versions of ants, however, for some reason even if it is fantastical I like the idea and satisfaction of advancing the colony through these stages.  Once you get your hands on an Antman queen, you can produce antmen directly, but on account of the complexity and size they reproduce much more slowly.  In contrast, lowly ants are Extremely easy to hatch and reproduce and thus very numerous.  Think a ready made army of workers to do your menial tasks such as farming, etc.

So!  That is just a few notes on what I'm currently working on, thought you might find it interesting :P   

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Pascale

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2013, 12:00:15 pm »

With all the emphasis on numbers FPS sounds like it'll go down the tubes pretty darn quick, I must say. And I meant the ants burst when they flee, like fire mages may explode when the flee while playing dwarfs, though spitting ants is cool as well.
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thistleknot

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2013, 01:44:02 pm »

man... I hate my f'n phone not letting me post this... had to wait til I got to a pc.

So yeah, I'd love to see antmen as a playable race, since there the closest thing to xelics.

CuriousCreativity

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2013, 05:02:21 pm »

@thistleknot,

I don't know a lot about "Xelics", however on search I found this: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Modification:Civilization_Forge might want to check it out.

@pascale,

To be honest, I have never fooled around with the Mages much in MW-DF.  I will have to take a look at the raws and see how exactly they work, as far as exploding when they flee.

As far as FPS:  I think that is a very apt and accurate statement.  Unfortunately, FPS will probably be an issue for those with lower end PC's.  Of coarse, turning on the various "simple" UI choices and other FPS beneficial settings in masterwork will hopefully help.  Who knows, this is still on the drawing board in many ways - I just can't imagine an Ant Colony/Hive with only a handful of ants.  For some reason in my mind's eye I see copious amounts of rigidly casted, expendable ants.  Could be just me, lol.

To the person who mentioned Starship Troopers earlier: I absolutely love the idea and presentation of the franchise - the spirit is definitely there :)
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Meph

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2013, 07:48:19 am »

You cant have ant and antmen civ members, because of the way how profession sprites work. Pet ants and antmen civ units is doabe.

You might have misunderstood Tierre, he meant a tileset for the buildings, not creature sprites. please do not do a tileset ^^
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Tierre

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2013, 08:54:18 am »

Pity, but i see that it is nothing but excessive work for you. Well i guess using a lot of mushrooms in workshops will help make them more antmen like:) It is too bad you can't add a sprite to a tile used in workshop for example or inorganic material like you do to creatures. Hope Toady makes something like that.
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Shadow9657

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Re: Antmen
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2013, 09:46:42 am »

Speaking of fungi there is a fungus that will inhabit and influence an ants behavior. Since there is a theme of using real life ant biology I was wondering if this could be implemented as some secret !FUN!
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