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Author Topic: DotA 2 - the ultimate thread  (Read 148483 times)

GP Trixie

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is almost here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1290 on: May 29, 2015, 06:06:47 pm »

What exactly did I do wrong?

I think the game was already nearly lost on the draft, your team got 2 issues : you have no lockdown, and you don't have any support hero that can win the lane phase. They have a good tanky frontline and a sniper and the only gapclose you got is the dagger on tinker. I would have pick a lockdown heavy hero like earthshaker, shadown shaman or space cow. Or maybe some sniper specific counter since I hate him, like storm spirit or nyx assasin.

That being said, if I had to play your medusa, I would go with early game items. Your problem is that they are stronger than you in the early game. I would probably choose something like aquila ring, drums, probably a vlad since it works for distance heroes now, before going for a big item like skady or linken.

There is no point of rushing the big items if you can't stay alive until you have no inventary slot left. And your team should be much better late in this game, so even with a slower buildoff once the  game is late you are in a much better shape than them anyway.
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Putnam

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is almost here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1291 on: May 29, 2015, 06:16:54 pm »

Tinker decided to get blink after dagon, too, which may have been part of the problem.

crazysheep

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is almost here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1292 on: May 30, 2015, 01:42:45 am »

What exactly did I do wrong?

If I were to guess, I didn't switch gears into a more early-game fight kinda thing. I went Bloodstone instead of Linken's because I thought it would be more useful due to how auto-attackish the team was. I was Medusa mostly because 10-hero challenge. Drow picked Drow after NS was picked, which was kinda dumb, and now I wonder how I could have mitigated the whole "picked a hero who literally does less damage when enemies are close against an enemy whose entire playstyle revolves around getting close" thing.

At least I farmed better than I ever have.
Without watching the replay, here are my thoughts:
Draft-wise, Dire may have less lockdown, but you have 2 great split pushers in Brood and Tinker, and that's only for the early game. Come late game Medusa can push a lane on her own, so that means Dire strategy should have been: avoid big 4/5 on 4/5 team fights, split push for days and rat doto to win. Having the Bounty on Dire also helps with this strat, you can minimise teamfights by finding solo kills.

Having said that, item-wise Dire screwed up big time. Brood and Tinker going Dagon means they were looking to pick off solo heroes instead of split pushing with spiders and March of the Machines. Bounty should have been the one going for Dagon, as it improves his solo kill potential, instead of going for battlefury (which is a farming tool and is pretty bad on Bounty imo). Drow did Drow things and got the right items, although I can't help but feel that she should have gotten at least Wraith Bands to tank up a little bit, and maybe get a Silver Edge instead of rushing Butterfly.
As for Medusa, Bloodstone was the wrong item choice here, Linken's is the superior option for her. With Medusa, you'll be farming lots and staying away from fights, and thus your Bloodstone won't be gaining charges any time soon. It's better for heroes which do the exact opposite, ie heroes actively looking to fight and gain Bloodstone charges (eg. Tinker could use a Bloodstone effectively in this game). Linken's on the other hand provides Medusa with a way to avoid single target stuns and/or lockdown. Looking at Radiant draft, they have that in spades: Wraith King hellfire blast, Shadow Demon disruption and demonic purge, NS void and fear. So she really should have taken Linken's as her first major item here.
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umiman

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is almost here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1293 on: May 30, 2015, 02:27:50 am »

I never know how to give advice to other Dota players. Especially those less experienced. Mostly because I don't know how to give it without sounding like a condescending prick, which I don't really want to come off as. Also my advice usually boils down to "git gud", which probably isn't very helpful.

I can link some games where Dota decided to put my stack against normal tier and you can compare how we play vs them. It'd be like comparing shit players vs garbage players, but hey, maybe you'll learn something. Like the importance of triple boot strat?

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1109517581

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1481898408

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1439445492

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1121084366

GP Trixie

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is almost here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1294 on: May 30, 2015, 06:40:39 am »

Being better is indeed a good way to win more games, but it's not something than happens magicly in the middle of a game. I'm trying to improve my winrate simply by picking better heroes lately and got very good results. I feel like you need to answer the following question with your draft :

- how are we going to win teamfights ?
- how are we going to destroy buildings, especially high ground ?
- how are we going to win the lane phase ?

And I think that the other team was able to answer these question much better than yours. One very big problem in every game is how to initiate teamfight. In my experience, half of the time in pub games the answer is let's watch the other team in the other side of the river for 20 mins and wait for something to happen. And your team doesn't really have a much better option. Tinker does have a dagger, but tinker is a bad hero for initiating fights, he may be able to kill 1 or 2 but he will probably die and dying on a tinker is superbad. I think that your only option for initiating is waiting for them to do a mistake, and it's not a good plan.

Meanwhile they have wraith king which can initiate fights perfectly by just dying, with a sniper being there to secure every possible kill. And the lack of lockdown in your team means that even if a fight goes well, they can all start to run, and with the slow of the drow and the brood you can maybe catch 1 or 2 but it will be very hard to wipe them completly.

Now the other big important thing is buildings, and your team is very bad for attacking high ground. Tinker is great at pushing lanes but is crap against tower. Brood is good for getting a early tower avantage but high ground is much harder, you have to bait the ennemy team out of their base while trying to not loose horribly without the brood.

I think that there are mainly 4 ways to take high ground.
-You can kill the enemy team and then attack buildings. One very good trick for starting this is to ward the enemy jungle and try to catch one of their carries.
-You can use dedicated heroes for taking building, like tiny, sniper, pugna, death prophet.
-You can be tanky enough to not care about the ennemy team.
-You can try to do the rat strategy, but it relies on outmaneuvering the ennemy team. You can relies on enemy mistakes like not carrying a TP when they are attacking your base, but if your ennemies are good enough you need to do good plays like interrupting TPs or convincing the ennemy team to pursue you in half of the map.

The only two plan you can rely are the wipping the ennemy team one and the rat one, but both feel pretty hard to execute and they rely on ennemies mistakes.

One other important thing to consider is your ability to ruin the ennemy plan. Having a not so good plan is ok if you can ruin the ennemy plan. Their teamfight relies on sniper getting kills while their tanky frontline act as a decoy. This is why I think sniper counters like storm or nyx would have been pretty good.

I've been playing a lot of abaddon lately because I think he is a super good answer to a lot of these question on pubs, at least at my level (most of my games appear in high skill in dotabuff). He is one of the best initiation in the game with is ult. It's very hard to screw up when your plan to initiate is getting jumped on in the most horrible way possible. He is super good against building with his passive. He is super good in lane with his shield. And more importantly, he is the closest thing to immortality in dota. I'm starting to be pretty sure he is broken this patch dotabuff link

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umiman

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1295 on: May 30, 2015, 10:47:20 am »

Abbadon's winrate has always been super high.

Usually the easier the hero, the higher the winrate.

PrivateNomad

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1296 on: June 08, 2015, 08:36:50 pm »

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1538264175

it's sad that me, a rubick, had a higher GPM than our medusa and alchemist. We still won, though, but damn that was one of the best games of my life. Stealing hooks, epicenters, fingers, boats, all the shit.

umiman

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1297 on: June 08, 2015, 08:55:04 pm »

Grats. Too bad you missed the time when Rubick was significantly stronger.

RIP Rubick mid. I loved you so much. Now you are a slow cow with no brains.

PrivateNomad

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1298 on: June 08, 2015, 09:05:50 pm »

T'was single draft.
I actually played him mid this game.

PrivateNomad

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1299 on: June 10, 2015, 06:46:22 pm »

Putnam

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1300 on: June 11, 2015, 03:53:21 am »

the stupidest game I've ever played

i kept telling invoker to get 3 orbs instead of just having one wex out but he refused until he got exort

then he asked how to use tornado

...we won

crazysheep

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1301 on: June 11, 2015, 05:35:32 am »

how does a 35/3 bounty hunter fail to carry his team to victory @_@
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etgfrog

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1302 on: June 11, 2015, 09:27:53 am »

how does a 35/3 bounty hunter fail to carry his team to victory @_@
Die at the 45 minute mark due to being out of position or overconfident, enemy team capitalize on it and pushes to win, your own team no longer has the crutch to win team fights, forced to choose to either fight into death ward and/or guardian angel vs losing a 2nd rax. Also need to consider, the wind ranger was kind of derp build, if your going aghs on wind ranger, at least pick up a maelstorm.
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crazysheep

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Re: Dota 2 - 6.84 is here! Al Chemist can now cast aghs! what?
« Reply #1304 on: June 11, 2015, 10:52:04 am »

MoM on windranger is best build [/sarcasm]

Although I guess the point about overconfidence is roughly correct.
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