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Yes.

13 (72.2%)

No.

5 (27.8%)

Total Members Voted: 16

[Elephant Parade]

Won't do any good, the goons will come down on me like the fist of Armok if I go back into the city.

If this constitution is adopted, then only the military can act against the civilization's citizens within our own borders, Mercenaries and Bounty Hunters are only allowed to go after non-citzen targets, and even then, they are to work with local military forces.

Yeah, doubt they're gonna be likely to listen to us.

Goldminer has been extremely reasonable, from what I've seen. I understand that his conversations with you have been a bit different, but from his side of the story it looked like you were the aggressor, and you didn't take any screenshots.

At the moment, we're trying to at least get some discussion going, which is why I made a post and linked it in the poll. You may have missed it, of course.

Tahujdt and gold, please make a list of requests. If you have no requests, say "I have no requests" or something similar. Thank you.

[Baffler]

Done. Dear LORD we have a lot of wheat growing. The total harvest is as follows:

1403 Wheat
177 Carrots
105 Reeds
68 potatoes

I've processed it, but where should I put it?

[tahujdt]

I have no requests that I will make at this time. I've been exiled, remember? If I try to do anything, I'll get re-pearled.

[Elephant Parade]

I have no requests that I will make at this time. I've been exiled, remember? If I try to do anything, I'll get re-pearled.

This is a discussion. Do you not not want to come back to Dumathoin? If you do, that's a request. Anything else that you want is also a request, whether it's in the near future or the far future.

For example, if you want to not be re-pearled if you come back, that is a request. If you phrase it as such, I will attempt to draw the attention of involved parties to it.

[tahujdt]

While I'd love to come back, if I make a request to that effect, they'll probably call it "aggressive behavior" or somesuch. So, hypothetically, if I were to make such a request, it would be after I am assured of the absence of the goon squad.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

So you know that old bridge I made up in Dale, from the western portion over the Boat Docks?  Yeah, Gold removed that without prior warning.  Kinda a dick move, if you ask me.  Even took down the house that was there, which none of us built.  From what I could gather, the bridge and house were removed because they were, basically, cluttering up the mountain.  When I mentioned the house not being built by us, he replied with "It was on Dumathoin land."

I'm now getting a tad concerned about everything I build being removed....may be overstretching the extent of what it would go to, but...

Edit: Mentioned him posting a warning before the next time he does that, giving people a maybe 8 hour gap to respond in, and he replied, "I don't check the forums that often."  One of his friends doesn't want to come to the thread, because, I quote, "This isn't a Bay 12 server."  I'm a little concerned...

[Werdna]

OneEye - there's a storeroom on top level, left of the hall to Old Dumathoin.  Plenty of extra chests if there is an overflow.

The 'outside bounty-hunter' Sanwi is as much a Dumathoin citizen as any one of us can claim.  He maintained the snitch network there for quite some time, had a marketplace at one point, and he was one of its most active defenders.  It shouldn't be any shock that he volunteered to defend it for GM.  It should speak volumes that a head of state volunteered to come all the way out to the ++ boonies to defend a small city for GM from a guy threatening to destroy him.

I don't know how anyone can read Tahu's msgs to GM and think there can be a peaceful resolution.  I tried for a week to de-escalate the situation and all Tahu did was escalate it with threats and insults.  I have the PM's.  Read those screenshots GM posted again* and pay careful attention to who is insulting who, and who is threatening the other.  He threatens:

• to out our city, and post coords on r/Civcraft
• why stop there, threatens to send the coords directly to the HCF, remember the guys El Parade was calling Bay12 to arms against to defend Dumathoin?  Yeah, them!  Is it just me, or is that also a selfish FU to B12, to call in griefers that will trash our shit too because of a private beef?
• hire bounty hunters to kick GM's ass.  (Funny, less than 12 hrs later he calls GM balls-impaired^* for 'calling in goons'.  That's rich.)
• 'I have full PVP gear and you don't'.  'Bully' for you, tahu, you only flaunt your PVP peen every chance^* you get^*.

Never mind the nasty insults about GM not having a job*, inability to spell well* (incidentally, the reason why GM is reluctant to post here), and other poo-flinging*.  It didn't 'start' with the forge permissions either - how many of you know that Dumathoin is privately snitched by Tahu^*, and are in the snitch group?  Gold isn't, nor am I, and that snitch network was there when Gold got back.  The founder of the city doesn't have access to his own city's snitch network.  So the forge is not the beginning of this permission crap. 

Do you want to play with someone like that?  I don't, and I've been the one telling GM to give tahu a chance from the vault incident onwards.  I told GM that I needed proof to believe that tahu is threatening him, and well, there it is, and it's every bit as nasty as GM had said it was from the very start.  I warned tahu to drop the passive-aggressive bullshit, and he only escalated it.  Anyone that spends 30 minutes in voice chat with GM knows he's a really laid-back, passive kid with a goofy laugh and a plan for practically every square inch of Dumathoin if we're willing to listen.  Maybe if we start listening, he'll start listening to us too.

As for waiting for GM to explain himself here, it's probably not going to happen.  Civcraft states run on voice chat (they have a huge Mumble server), not forums.  GoldMiner is happier than a pig in shit to talk people's ear off and explain himself in voice chat, but he's not a poster.  That's our style, not his, so you're going to be waiting awhile.  Incidentally, he seemed open to the idea of a council, but he wants a say in who counsels him - so if you really care about having a say, get in the game, get in his teamspeak, chat with him, and convince him our ideas are worth listening to.

Edited to remove duplicate link.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

It didn't 'start' with the forge permissions either - how many of you know that Dumathoin is privately snitched by Tahu^*, and are in the snitch group?  Gold isn't, nor am I, and that snitch network was there when Gold got back.  The founder of the city doesn't have access to his own city's snitch network.  So the forge is not the beginning of this permission crap.

Correction to that: It's not private.  I've been given listening permissions for it, and I think that most Bay12ers are as well.  It was there from back around when we first came back, a few months before Gold showed up.

As for waiting for GM to explain himself here, it's probably not going to happen.  Civcraft states run on voice chat (they have a huge Mumble server), not forums.  GoldMiner is happier than a pig in shit to talk people's ear off and explain himself in voice chat, but he's not a poster.  That's our style, not his, so you're going to be waiting awhile.  Incidentally, he seemed open to the idea of a council, but he wants a say in who counsels him - so if you really care about having a say, get in the game, get in his teamspeak, chat with him, and convince him our ideas are worth listening to.

While he may not be a poster, look at my post directly above yours.  He ripped out a section of Dale that I had put in a couple months ago without even a warning on here.  When I suggested he gave a warning before ripping stuff out, all I got in response was "I don't check the forums."  I don't care if he doesn't like posting.  People have a right to know what is going on.

'I have full PVP gear and you don't'.  'Bully' for you, tahu, you only flaunt your PVP peen every chance^* you^* get^*.

You only have 2 examples there.  Don't make it look like 3.  That's misrepresentation of the facts.

Never mind the nasty insults about GM not having a job*,

Note the [/sarcasm].

[Orange Wizard]

Let's leave.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Let's leave.

If we do, I vote we stay on the same server.

[IronyOwl]

Let's leave.

So I realize this is a rather bizarre time to poke my head into this, but why is this even a discussion? Some guy comes back after months of absence to discover his mountain infested with dwarves, says "Excellent! Slaves to develop MY mountain for me in just the way I'd envisioned!" with the backing of the server in general, and your response is to discuss possible constitutions and compromises to keep your lord and master happy?

Why not just find a place you actually own? Or if that's not possible for some reason, find a new server not so fond of playing "Surprise you were a tenant all along?"

[Baffler]

Because we've been here for months. Believe it or not, we've grown a bit attached to the place. And we aren't powerless or alone either.

I'm only one man though, so if we do decide to leave, I'd say those icy mountains in the -z direction are a dwarfy enough hellscape to make our own. It will be tricky though, a lot of land here is already claimed, even out in the boonies where we are.

[WillowLuman]

I originally came to this server to see the sights, initially unaware that you guys were here, and when I stumbled on this thread, decided to go live with you (Entirely unaware of the history of this place). But now this is turning really ugly. If you guys want to leave and found your own dwarf fortress, I'll follow you. Else I'll just go back to being a hobo and possibly establish a hermitage at the edge of the map.

What's at the edge of the map anyway? Is every square of the map already claimed, even if it's wilderness 10km from anywhere, on the off-chance someone moves in so they can be taxed?

[Baffler]

You know what? Yeah, let's move. Just not yet. I would be lying if I said I wouldn't miss the place. I would be lying if I said Tahu's pearling was unjustified. But I'm tired of worrying about all this stuff. I want to stay, but that is looking like a hard bargain right now. I say we give it another day and see what happens.

At the edge of the map, you simply can't go any further. Terrain looks normal, but you can't go past a certain point.

[Orange Wizard]

As far as I'm aware, the "ugliness" is due to the Tahu thing and Goldminer's lack of communication.