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Author Topic: Spiders? Spiders.  (Read 13919 times)

DG

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #120 on: February 22, 2014, 02:32:08 am »

I have a pet Garden Orb-weaving Spider that I decided to take a few photos of for you guys. I call it a pet because it's been living on a cactus in my yard for over six months which makes it easy to check in on. In late evening it builds a large web in the same spot between two of my taller columnar cactii and the web usually lasts for two nights (barring high wind or other accidents) before the spider takes it down and rebuilds. And longer than that and it becomes overly festooned with drained bug corpses and web efficiency probably suffers.

During the day it rests on a cactus a small distance from the web proper, presumably to keep safe from birds. Sometimes if the web is still up during the day while I am watering my garden and I direct the water through the web the vibration will make it rocket out into the middle in search of the imagined prey item. That startled me the first time it happened.

Here it is resting. It's roughly the size of the end of a thumb.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here's a close-up (I know next to nothing about photography btw). That's the head on top and three pairs of legs pointing up.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here's another angle.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here's a shot of the web after a successful night. There are over twenty dead bugs still stuck in it. It'd probably be a more regular shape if both cactii struts were the same height. In case you can't make it out, the web anchor line runs from the green cactus on the left all the way to the top of the white cactus that continues out of shot a little. The shorter white cactus isn't connected to the web. The red circle shows where it sits during the day. I tried some night photos of it in the middle of the web but they didn't come out.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So that's my pet spider. The interwebs tell me that they live for about a year. I'll be sad when it goes but it'll be interesting to see if a new one takes up the same spot.
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Dwarf4Explosives

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #121 on: February 22, 2014, 09:19:11 am »

D'awww. Looks like it's got a pretty good spot for itself there.

By the way, if brain-to-size-ratio means anything, spiders are fucking smart. Their brains are far more grouped than most arthropods, taking up a large part of their front body. Mesothelae (I have no idea if that's the correct spelling) is the exception, with one clump of brain matter in their abdomen. And if smart spiders isn't a bit of a scary thought, turns out spiders can fly. Well, it'S not exactly controlled flight, but they can take advantage of wind and the Earth's electrostatic field to rise to a height of 5 km (a little over 3 miles). One type of spider is possibly the only creature that can live continuously at a ridiculously high altitude (somewhere in the Himalayas, at 6 km/3 1/4 miles, I believe).
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And yet another bit of proof that RNG is toying with us. We do 1984, it does animal farm
...why do your hydras have two more heads than mine? 
Does that mean male hydras... oh god dammit.

Reverie

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #122 on: February 22, 2014, 09:27:46 am »

I avoid spiders like the plague ;~;
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WillowLuman

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #123 on: February 22, 2014, 03:34:53 pm »

They're smart for arthropods, but not overly smart in comparison to vertebrates. Total size of the brain does have something to do with it, as does the structure. I imagine a lot of their brainpower goes into coordinating 8 legs, navigation, and web design.

Ballooning is how many spiders spread out from their place of birth. Much like dandelion seeds, they have no control over where they go, but it has enabled them to spread pretty far.
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Dwarf4Explosives

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #124 on: February 22, 2014, 05:09:51 pm »

Sure, they have no control over it, but as a feat of semi-random engineering, it's still pretty impressive.

I wonder if there are ways you could reduce the amount of brainpower that has to be used for such things as locomotion and navigation, like an upgraded version of the way one part of the human brain (sorry, but I can't remember which part - the brain stem, I believe - does this) takes over tasks like riding a bicycle.
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And yet another bit of proof that RNG is toying with us. We do 1984, it does animal farm
...why do your hydras have two more heads than mine? 
Does that mean male hydras... oh god dammit.

WillowLuman

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #125 on: February 22, 2014, 06:52:45 pm »

All of evolution is semi-random engineering. And it's all impressive.

Coordinating the body still takes a lot of brainpower (large parts of our brains are dedicated to regulating our organs and handling things like muscle-memory), it's just not a conscious thing. It's pretty hard to get an objective answer on this, but I imagine most of a spider's conscious determinations involve building the web, maintaining it, knowing where to step to not get stuck, that sort of thing.

You want an arthropod with an impressive brain, look at velvet worms. They've got complex social interactions. Spiders, on the other hand, are almost all solitary creatures. There are several exceptions, though the complexity of their groupings is debatable.

Also, another cool spider.
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Dwarf4Explosives

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #126 on: February 23, 2014, 06:36:46 am »

I know that's what evolution is. That's exactly why it's impressive. Also, considering such things as HSP90, which allow mutations to be surpressed until the enviroment changes, it's far more complex than simply "problems are removed".
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And yet another bit of proof that RNG is toying with us. We do 1984, it does animal farm
...why do your hydras have two more heads than mine? 
Does that mean male hydras... oh god dammit.

DG

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #127 on: March 01, 2014, 01:22:03 am »

Hey, it's time for another installment of DG's Garden Spiders.

On my way back inside after faffing about in the yard I noticed that Orby (I decided to name it) was in the middle of her (I assume) web in broad daylight, which as I've said is highly unusual unless a hose is involved. I stopped to investigate why and found that she had caught and just finished wrapping the biggest prey item I've yet seen.

Spun in silk as it was I couldn't clearly idenitfy it and a moment later it kicked feebly one last time before becoming still. Orby was already slowly, with intermittent stops and starts, inching back toward her cactus base camp. She was like the Fremen on Arrakis avoiding sandworms, if you've read Dune. I went inside and grabbed my camera.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There she is moving back down while at the top is the wrapped meal for later. It's hard to take photos of small things floating in the air without focusing on the background but a close up can reveal what she caught.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can see the stinger on the bottom along with faint yellow and black stripes. Orby managed to catch a bee. It's unfortunate because I've already noticed far fewer bees around this year without them blundering into spider webs. It's probably no coincidence that the silk wrapping seems to have avoided the sting.

Here're a couple more of Orby being somewhat less cute in close-up.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After taking some photos I noticed a smaller web running from Orby's cactus to the short white cactus next to the tall one that Orby uses as a strut. In effect this new web created, along with Orby's original, a double web barrier about 5 centimetres apart in the same air space. It doesn't make much sense for Orby to build a second web in direct competition with her first so I decided there must be another spider.

I found it sitting on Orby's cactus, but on the very top, whereas Orby sits about halfway down the side.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's much smaller than Orby so I can't see distinguishing features to help me identify it on the net. Maybe it is young and will grow large enough to identify. It's legs are almost identical to the cactus spines in shape and colouring. And it seems to have relatively large chelicerae for it's size, if that's what the two bulbs in the following close-ups are.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've dubbed this one Spiny but who knows if it will stick around long enough to be adopted as a pet. It might be an orb weaver, too.

I avoid spiders like the plague ;~;

We have worse things here than spiders. Three days ago I saw a spider wasp fighting with a spider. I was visiting Orby when I heard a buzzing and rustling behind me. I turned to see a bright orange and black wasp, about three centimetres in length, wrestling with a spider almost twice it's size (taking legs into account). The spider was grey and flattish with long legs so it was probably some sort of huntsman. They were struggling on a high ledge of my house before falling down. The wasp hit a low window sill while the spider fell a foot further to the ground. The spider then rocketed away across my yard and under the fence to the neighbours. You could tell how scared it was. The wasp hadn't noticed the escape and proceeded to spend a long time buzzing and hopping angrily around the area it last saw the spider.

That spider escaped a pretty grim fate. Spider wasps catch spiders much bigger than themselves then paralyze them and lay an egg on them so that their baby can eat it alive after it hatches. Apparently they are common but that was the first time I've seen one, though now I've seen them (probably the same one) every day for three days in a row. That first time was the only time I saw it with a spider and it happend too fast for me to fetch the camera. Not that I would have been eager to get close enough to take cool shots of a wasp. They are apparently non-aggresive, but I'd rather not take the chance of a wasp thinking I was trying to steal its baby larder.

Also, in case anyone is wondering/worried, rudimentary research indicates that Orby is too small for the wasp to bother with. I did notice the wasp nosing around in the ground around Orby's cactus the next day but Orby is fine. Either she really isn't worth attacking or she wasn't noticed.
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WillowLuman

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #128 on: March 01, 2014, 02:14:52 am »

Ugh, those Tarantula Hawk Wasps. Their stings HURT.
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Sinistar

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #129 on: March 01, 2014, 03:32:13 am »

Thanks for the updates on your spider, DG! I love reading your stories. And I think you did fine job on photos, given how small the observed subjects are.  :)
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itisnotlogical

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #130 on: March 01, 2014, 05:52:06 am »

A few weeks ago, when this thread was several pages down, a building in my apartment complex became infested with spiders. They didn't get to my building in significant numbers, but I did happen to see one in the bathtub. I was too startled to be especially interested, but it just looked like a brown fuzzy one about the size of a quarter. It was pretty stocky and low to the ground, compared to web-spinning spiders I've seen, so I imagine it was a hunter. By the time I wanted a second look, it had disappeared somewhere and I haven't seen any since. I imagine they've probably been exterminated by now, but I'm hoping a few survived in the grass and trees surrounding the buildings.

I kinda regret that there's so few insects in Oregon. While I've never had to worry about bees, wasps or other nasties, there's also nothing for spiders to eat and thus no spiders. The only ones I've seen (besides the one mentioned above) have been ridiculously tiny white ones (about the size of an 'o' in this sentence), very few and far between. If these are babies, I haven't seen the mamas yet.
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DG

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #131 on: March 01, 2014, 06:31:52 am »

Ugh, those Tarantula Hawk Wasps. Their stings HURT.

Quote
Commenting on his own experience, Justin O. Schmidt, entomologist and creator of the Schmidt Sting Pain Index, described the pain as "…immediate, excruciating pain that simply shuts down one's ability to do anything, except, perhaps, scream. Mental discipline simply does not work in these situations."
That's describing the tarantula hawk, which I'm pretty sure the one in my yard wasn't. A search shows that TH's look like they are black bodied with orange wings while the one(s) I saw had orange wings and a bright black and orange abdomen. Still, it's some species of pompilidae so there's a good chance it'd make me cry like a little girl if it stung me, Tarantula Hawk or not.

Thanks for the updates on your spider, DG! I love reading your stories. And I think you did fine job on photos, given how small the observed subjects are.  :)
Thanks for the feedback :) The trick when you're rubbish is to take a hundred photos then look for the few that are in focus. I'll put up more if anything interesting happens, but there's only so much you can do with webs, bugs and dabbling photography.

The only ones I've seen (besides the one mentioned above) have been ridiculously tiny white ones (about the size of an 'o' in this sentence), very few and far between. If these are babies, I haven't seen the mamas yet.
I'm a world away from you but I'm pretty sure the spiders you describe are Pholcidae. Or daddy-long-legs. I can see one in a ceiling corner right now.
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itisnotlogical

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #132 on: March 01, 2014, 07:24:49 am »

I'm a world away from you but I'm pretty sure the spiders you describe are Pholcidae. Or daddy-long-legs. I can see one in a ceiling corner right now.

Not really, they look more like this and they're smaller than a thumbnail, legs and all. I'm almost 100% sure they're just babies, or else there's a really tiny species I don't know about.

It's a bit adorable, how brave they are. The only reason I'm able to see them so often is because they come down on threads right into groups of people like it isn't even a thing.
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Dwarf4Explosives

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #133 on: March 01, 2014, 02:06:44 pm »

Aw, if that second spider is a male (as the seemingly large pedipalps indicate), you might get lots of baby spiders.
...
Now that I think of it, that might not be half as cute to see as the single, large spider you currently have. The small ones always make me afraid they're going to end up hiding somewhere unexpected, and I'll find them at the worst possible time.

Also, I had never heard that those wasps were that painful to humans. I feel a lot of sympathy for the spiders now.
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And yet another bit of proof that RNG is toying with us. We do 1984, it does animal farm
...why do your hydras have two more heads than mine? 
Does that mean male hydras... oh god dammit.

WillowLuman

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Re: Spiders? Spiders.
« Reply #134 on: March 01, 2014, 02:09:39 pm »

Also, I had never heard that those wasps were that painful to humans. I feel a lot of sympathy for the spiders now.
Oh yes. Worst camping trip ever...
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Keep Me Safe - A Girl and Her Computer (Illustrated Game)
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