Toony
Liar, scum priest can fail a resurrect and bring them back as town.
I obviously didn't lie: it's unclear at this stage. I recall reading in one of the previous games Meph saying the piety check was 50/50 (which would rule out three resurrection options for the scum alignment), but I might have got that wrong.
NQT - How is it obvious you didn't lie about your role to anyone but yourself? Beyond that, I've made several posts where I state that I am not sure that you are telling the truth about it - granted I could be wrong - but really, I don't see that it is obvious that you are Priest or obvious that you are Town.
And I'm not the only one to think there's more than two types of priests.... in fact, there's not just -one- way a priest can 'fail'
There's two parts to a priest's success/failure check, not one (S1 info):
JanusTwoFace (town)
You are a Priest, spokesman for the Heavens and intermediary between the people of this town and the gods. Once per game you may perform a miracle during the night, and bring one of the fallen back from the dead. If your faith is pure, they shall rise and be as they were before they died. If it is sullied, or you make a mistake during the rites, the results may be less than pleasant.
So now that the game's over, is there actually a game effect of "sullied faith" or was that just flavor?
Oh, yes, not all Priests get the rites correct, and sometimes the rites draw unwanted attention. There are actually multiple varieties of Priest. But like sane/insane/naive Cops the player doesn't get to know what type they are.
So Meph has said in the past, there's piety - AND there's technique. 'Two' is a possible number of 'multiple varieties', but there's no reason to believe 'multiple varieties' probably equals two.
Resurrections actually might do 'anything' from the view of a player (S2 info)
The effect of a Priest's resurrection is known to me at the start, yes. But from the player's point of view it's essentially random, since there is no way to know what will happen until you perform the resurrection.
At least some people have thought it quite reasonable that a scum priest might bring back a Townie as Town:
I think Eduren's status is the most important of the bunch. Anyway:
1) Eduren is town, and Lonewolf's resurrection was successful.
2) Eduren is town, and Lonewolf's resurrection went badly.
3) Eduren is a necromancer, and Lonewolf is now a zombie.
4) Eduren is scum, and Lonewolf is now also scum.
5) Eduren is scum, and Lonewolf stayed town.
Case 1 is pretty clear cut. It means Jokerman is telling the truth, and Toony is lying. Lynch Toony, done deal.
Case 2 is the same, except now Lonewolf is some third party. With the low information we have about scum roles, we won't be able to easily tell the difference between the first two cases. The best clue would be a second nightkill indicating that LW is now off killing people.
Case 3 is different. This is the highest scumcount case. In it, Eduren and Lonewolf both need to be taken out, and Toony is telling the truth. The problem with this one is Jokerman's claim. If they are both truly sextons, then they should have gotten the same result. Why would Jokerman lie to cover a third party if he is scum? The only benefit would be implicating ToonyMan as scum, which would be ruined if Toony (or Eduren) flipped town. A one for one trade is not good for the scum team. He might be thinking that an active SK (which I think the necromancer's zombie was discussed as acting as- a NK for the necro) would benefit the scum. Possible, but not likely.
Case 4 is what I believe ToonyMan is claiming. The cult could be death recruiters, and Jokerman is lying to protect Eduren. The problem with this is that ToonyMan flipping town would unravel the entire cult, assuming an original cult of Org/Eduren/Jokerman. I have suspected both Eduren and Jokerman, but this scheme seems a bit too far-fetched to be true.
Case 5 - see case 4, minus death recruiters. LW was raised to try to confirm Eduren as town, instead. Same problems as 4.
Bottom line is this: An Eduren lynch would answer the most questions about what could have happened night 2, but I'll stick to the idea that ToonyMan is a lying scumbag.
Others have also 'ignored/not realized' that there is more than piety, a priest in S2 said:
That's standard Priest PM, at least it was last game. It depends on specifically what type of Priest you are. If you are Pious, there's no chance of things going wrong. I don't know any of the other types.
The priest claiming a res has not always been seen as Town, regardless of what their rezzed target came back as:
Are you a zombie?
ToonyMan is trying very hard to craft a tale of zombies in such a way that, guilty or no, myself and Eduren cannot oppose him without "proving" his accusations. While the accusation itself would be believable on its own, combining it with the assertion that opposition = confirmation is a scummy tactic dripping with logical fallacy and an overeagerness to get potential confirmed townies lynched.
Be careful. Even if you aren't a zombie, that doesn't mean that Eduren is completely cleared. He could easily be a scum Priest trying to clear himself by raising you.
More concerns about 'what does being a priest mean, alignment wise':
Eduren: I still think you are scum. Can you convince me that you are not, show that any of the points I've raised against you are incorrect, or find someone scummier?
Can I convince you if I claim Lonewolf's resurrection without anybody counter-claiming?
As for my scumlist, mine has been thrown into disarray. With Lonewolf proven town, I have little to go off of.
Just to be sure, are you actually claiming that?
If that's the case, it won't make me 100% sure of you by a long shot. I know for a fact that the scum could easily have a Priest and could raise a townie in effort to look good. However, I think a more risky gambit that I'd expect you to pull, so I'll unvote you for the time being.
Lying about being a priest, to hide being a Converter from a Fortune Teller has been thought of before, and actually done before (S3 info):
Meph, how would a Priest appear to a Fortune Teller? Was it actually a half-decent fake claim?
Converter would show up for Priest, so that was actually an accurate fake-claim.
The idea that a Scum might fake-claim as a priest has been raised before (S5):
Finally, I never said three priests was impossible. I said I was dubious of it, and would like his opinion on it. Do you think fakeclaiming scum taking credit for a priest rez is impossible?
Yes. The actual priest would counter-claim, unless killed, in which case people would figure it out when the other two claimed. Why do you think fakeclaiming scum is more likely?
Which do you think is more likely- three priests or fakeclaiming scum taking credit for a slain one?
Three priests, due to the above logic.
So three priests is more likely than scum fakeclaiming priests because at massclaim everyone would realize four priests is too many.
Right. What's so magical about four that that's the cutoff for someone obviously being a fakeclaimer, and why would that be enough of a deterrent for scum doing it that they never ever would?
But what really matters is, is the perspective that NQT providing really his perspective?
Is he saying what he really thinks, or is he saying what he thinks will achieve goals that he must keep hidden.
Looking at the whole of NQT's posts, the insistence he uses, the claims he makes, the techniques he has used, the logic he states (and other logic he fails to state) - I don't believe I'm seeing honest thought. Does it matter if someone is wrong sometimes? That's expected. I can be wrong about what I believe I'm seeing too.
But the issue isn't 'is NQT right or wrong' - but 'is NQT being honest in what he posts as his trains of thought and the things he claims to see and not see, appears to consider and not consider'. Again, I don't think I'm seeing honesty here this time from NQT.
Rephrasing my theory that NQT might have been lying about having raised Nerjin:
Someone has to have rezzed Nerjin. If NQT did not do it - someone else had to have - someone else MUST be a priest. But we know the game has a priest - and it is a Scum priest. Should NQT also be Scum, it is not impossible for NQT to establish with Caz that NQT will take credit for Caz's rez of Nerjin.
That alone proves it is not impossible, and -never was-, that NQT could be lying about the claim of rezzing Nerjin - and know he would never face a counter claim. Similarly, if Scum and lying about having rezzed Nerjin, NQT would have full access to the information the real priest, Caz, can provide him, including details from the night action rez and actual role PM from this game - which only strengthens that it is not impossible for NQT to be lying (without proving he did or not).
One vital question - if it is true that NQT is Scum and is not a priest - why make this claim? What value does it have to the Scum team and to NQT, to make it their chosen plan - especially given that it's a slightly complex plan (Occam's razor does not apply very well)?
I do not know the answer to that question, but the chance that this is true is what creates my 'impassioned plea' that we lynch NQT -first-. It is also not impossible that NQT holds the unique role in the game - that NQT is a form of a converter by -role-, even though the Scum team itself appears to have S2-like disappearing kills.
If NQT is a converter of any sort, he would not be the first one to claim to be a priest - Jim did in S3. Jim had no priest on his team, so he had to claim to be a priest who had never used his resurrect. NQT -does- have a priest on his team, NQT could pull the same trick only 'better' - because he has a priest who could 'do the deed' and who could be trusted not to counterclaim his Scumbud.
Author
Topic: Supernatural Mafia 6 - Game Over! (Read 170411 times)