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[Nerjin]

It is entirely random from what I can tell. I'm basically vanilla town really. Though I suppose I'd be informed of a conversion or whatever.

[Caz]

There are instances where resurrecting somebody could prove valuable. Resurrecting Nerjin, who did not have a powerful role or any valuable information to bring back to the town, was not such an instance.

Out of curiosity, what role would you consider powerful.

Waste of time. We should be asking ourselves what kind of noob scumteam there is that would kill Persus13 first, which arguably would help scum. You kill the good players first, not the bad. Since no one likes the idea of a monster hunter, let's roll with that. Then there's also the possibility that Persus13 is making it all up to stop us considering a cult scumteam.

[Imp]

NQT:
Going to think about your questions to most of us some before I answer them.

Devils are the ones who offer deals. Demons are the nasty ones you're thinking of.

Devils can also get a one-shot kill.

I don't remember seeing any of the several devils from past games have a kill to use, they have a kill (and other things) to offer others.  There's a deal for a soul, and some things (guardian angel) cannot be dealt with, autofail reasons.  Are you suggesting that a devil can deal with themself for a one-shot kill?  That doesn't fly for me - that devil already belongs to hell and has nothing 'new' to bring to hell.  Can you support "Devils can also get a one-shot kill." with links or anything?

We knew he was town and by the end of Day 1 it looked like he was getting his act together and finally starting to think critically about the game.

Excuse me, but I was very involved during his 'at death's door/end of D1' questioning.  I did not see anything that made me think he was starting to get his anything together, and I was rather ardent about trying to evoke that from him.

Spoiler: The final D1 hours of Nerjin, both questions and answers (click to show/hide)

Dude, it's 3:30 righ-... I have failed at time. Anyway solved that little issue for you.

I couldn't break the tie by unvoting at the time. We need a lynch. No-lynching doesn't help anyone and a tie would've led to just another day of "Oh well I guess we gotta pick one or the other.

Nerjin, anything you'd like to do at this time to help further your wincon?  Are you currently posting in pure self defense, or with thought to how every action you take could (and should) be made because it improves your chances of winning the game?

... Please tell me how I'm supposed to get out of this? Anything else I say'll just run interference on later days. I'm fine with dieing tonight. I had nothing to give to the team anyways.

Your wincon requires you to 'get out of this'?  You lose if you're lynched?

Try to follow along here, I'm going to speak slowly for you.

If I die I cannot even try to hunt scum. Therefore I need to avoid death to do that. Do you understand what I'm saying?

No, actually.  You're alive right now.  If your wincon requires you to hunt scum, right now you are able to do so.  If you're part of a team, and you win when your team wins, regardless of if you yourself are alive or dead, then why are you not devoting every action you take towards improving the chances of you (which means all of you, your entire team members known to you or not) to win?  Especially if these are your final hours to have a chance to take actions which can help you win - why are you not doing so?

Nerjin if you're submitting to getting lynched, could you at least claim?  Any valuable info to share?  Simply unvoting and waiting to die isn't very productive.

I'm a dreamwalker. As I'm given to understand I see that an action occured though not who took it. As for valuable information I've posted all I can think of.

@Imp Because I hate you. Actually it's because I don't see the point. There's not enough time or information for me to make a proper go at things. I brought this upon myself so I'm willing to accept the consequences.

Do I remember someone saying that Nerjin has a tendency to give up when the odds are against him? Was this mentioned as a town trait or scum trait?

It's a both trait.

These statements say he would rather live than win.  That there's no point in him doing anything other than trying to survive, and that he gives up under pressure.  He'd rather wait out the clock to his death than spend his final time chasing his wincon, attempting to scumhunt to give his team everything possible - regardless of if his efforts bear fruit before Day end or not - but taking every possible action to win.  And even directly reminded of that option, he directly refuses it.

We knew he was town and by the end of Day 1 it looked like he was getting his act together and finally starting to think critically about the game.  Also, I might die or be converted on any given night so I thought it best to use my power on the first competent town player. Would you have left him dead?

Provide support to this, please.  I don't see him getting his act together by the end of D1, I don't see him thinking critically about the game at that point, and the way he has played this game, I do not see 'competent town player' either.

About dreamwalkers:
In previous games, dreamwalkers have seen one of two things each night - they've seen either 'random dreams' that were not detailed (their randomly selected target received no PMs that night) or they got the exact PM their target did, with enough extra explanation to make it clear it was a dream and not somehow something the dreamwalker experienced directly.  Their role PMs have stated that they randomly select targets - it appears that Meph does this selection - Dreamwalker appears very passive in terms of 'action', like the sexton.

[Persus13]

There are instances where resurrecting somebody could prove valuable. Resurrecting Nerjin, who did not have a powerful role or any valuable information to bring back to the town, was not such an instance.

Out of curiosity, what role would you consider powerful.

Waste of time. We should be asking ourselves what kind of noob scumteam there is that would kill Persus13 first, which arguably would help scum. You kill the good players first, not the bad. Since no one likes the idea of a monster hunter, let's roll with that. Then there's also the possibility that Persus13 is making it all up to stop us considering a cult scumteam.

While I feel bad that you're calling me a bad town player, I'm glad your keeping the options open.

Also, are you referring to vampires when you say cult?

[Caz]

While I feel bad that you're calling me a bad town player, I'm glad your keeping the options open.

Also, are you referring to vampires when you say cult?

Well, what I mean is, most people didn't consider you that useful on Day1 and a few people wanted to lynch you. If the scum were looking for a target, why would it be you? If they had any self-awareness at all they would have killed Jim or Toony.

[Caz]

Also, are you referring to vampires when you say cult?

Not necessarily. There was a werewolf cult in a previous game if I remember correctly. The flavour doesn't matter, by 'cult' I'm referring to a scumteam that converts townies into scum rather than killing them.

[ToonyMan]

@NQT:
I agree with Imp here.  Your excuse for resurrecting Nerjin isn't very convincing unless you were taking any chance you could get.  Which sounds overeager and possibly scummy.  You're also attacking a player with what I can only assume a case that proves they're town?

[Caz]

@NQT:
I agree with Imp here.  Your excuse for resurrecting Nerjin isn't very convincing unless you were taking any chance you could get.  Which sounds overeager and possibly scummy.  You're also attacking a player with what I can only assume a case that proves they're town?

Casting a rez as a townie seems like a good idea, if only for the ability to claim you're trying to do something useful for town. In actual strategy though, rezzing would be more useful to a scum player. The possibility (probably 50% or nearabouts) of introducing a 3rd party with a kill (who is more likely to cut down townies than scum, and will sow discord among the rest of the town, removing suspicion from the scumteam). I'd make the case that it's more useful to rez as scum than to rez as town.

That being said, things being a good idea and what people do are different things entirely. I don't think we can count NQT as scummy just because he tried to revive Nerjin. Just shortsighted.

[Persus13]

Attacking NQT saying Nerjin not playing yesterday

I'd say that Nerjin was showing a few signs of actually playing. His long post analyzing all of Cmega3's posts and few of various townies both seemed useful pieces of scumhunting. Although he had promise he has failed to use it today

For that matter, noone today seems to be doing much today. None of us have been doing much scumhunting or anything. Me, NQT, Jim, and Caz got bogged down in arguments over monster hunters. Imp and Toonyman haven't really done much besides attack NQT and I haven't heard much from Toaster or Tiruin recently. Not to mention Cmega3 being inactive (though he seems to be busy with school according to his posts across the forum yesterday). I'd like to hear more from Max too.

And then your attacking Nerjin for not scumhunting, when he seems to have given all he had. And he also said this.

Actually it's because I don't see the point. There's not enough time or information for me to make a proper go at things.

Not everyone can churn out walls of text like you can in a short amount of time. And churning out lots of information isn't guaranteed to help town like you seem to think it is.

[Max White]

You can ask him why he thinks there's a cult when there are other explanations for why there was no kill. But when you ask him for a pattern, you're asking for something stronger than just opinion.

Now that it's been sufficiently established, I'll ask again: Why did you ask him why he thought there was a vampire cult, and more to the point, why did you ask him for a pattern?

I thought maybe he could see something I couldn't. After all he was replying to somebody else, perhaps they both saw reason for a cult over a protect?
Lack of evidence of a cult doesn't disprove a cult, so I don't see how asking is saying there isn't one.

The other option is Persus is lying, perhaps to discourage night kills.

Or to further cast doubt over the nature of the scum team. He could very well be the cultist leader, but claiming he got attacked to make himself look more innocent while leaving us to figure out what sort of attack it was. Is there anything more generic than a guy in a mask with a sword?

If a town monster hunter has an investigate and a kill ability, should they investigate their targets before killing them?

I would use an investigate. It also helps clear suspects, but doesn't run the risk of killing townies. The problem with killing everybody off is that every townie you kill, not only do you bring the town a step closer to loosing, but there are less people for the scum to target, meaning that you become more and more likely to be the target of their night actions.

The other problem with a kill happy vig is that is sets a precedent that makes it easier for scum to claim as vig when they get caught in the act. It is possible Persus was targeted because he was playing poorly, and so if his attacker was seen they could just say they were a monster hunter trying to kill scum.

Finally, it opens the town up to this sort of bullshit where as we don't know the cause of an attack. If we are dealing with a cult we could be a lot more certain by now without the claim of this attack.

No, much better night 1 to use an inspect in my opinion. Yes, you might kill scum, but statistically n1 is the least likely night for you to guess correctly. Might as well make it a safe guess at least. From night 2 on wards it is a lot more justified, especially against a cult that tends to grow rapidly and vote to protect their leader, so it can be hard to actually lynch them.

Should a priest use their resurrect power?

No they shouldn't!
The risk of them coming back as a demon alone should be a disincentive, while in the past there have been scum priests who can bring back players as scum. The possible benefits for a scum priest are great and the possibility of it working out for town are not that amazing.

You want to save your resurrect for later in the game when you really do need another player to survive, even if they aren't town. At least if they come back as an SK they have the chance to kill scum at night, while not bringing a player back would leave you outnumbered for a guaranteed loss.

Right now you might have just introduced a demon at a time in the game when they are most likely to be killing townies. Worse still you bought one back who can claim they had some useless hazy dream and not provide us with real information.

We knew he was town and by the end of Day 1 it looked like he was getting his act together and finally starting to think critically about the game. If he keeps that up, even if he's a survivor third-party now, he'll be a town asset.

Oh, was he? If you think he was starting to straighten up and fly right then why were you voting for him yesterday? How did he go from lynch worthy to a town asset, even as third party?

Seems to me like you are trying to set him up, knowing that if there is an inspect in town it is heading straight for him.

[Nerjin]

Huh... I hadn't even considered that possibility. I'm going to have to apologize though and hold off on posting until at least tomorrow. I'm just not in the mood for this particular game for some reason.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Caz: Toaster, Persus13, Tiruin
Jim Groovester: notquitethere
Persus13: Caz, Jim Groovester
Tiruin: ToonyMan


Day has been Extended to ~5PM Pacific Thursday

[Persus13]

I'd love if I could see input from Toaster and Tiruin and Cmega3.

[Tiruin]

Most recent pertinent posts of mine precluding those above:
Here
Here

ToonyMan

@Tiruin (FoS for emphasis):
What do you think of Caz?  Why are you switching your vote so much?

Now I had this thing saved for days, and I love how you link back to it WITHOUT CHECKING THE CONTEXT. Let me round that FoS to you, handsome.

Caz is a LIAR. Switching a vote so much equals...what. Once? Or he may be very muchly lazy, but said laziness extends to his first replies to me. Subtle undermining seems to be a better ploy than just laziness, where I see it.

Check. The. Case. And thanks for the link. I cannot answer said question because its basis is a lie in itself (turned from a lazy assumption due to its repetition)

Check the EFFICIENT lurkertracker which follows votes [No offense ZU. Yours just lacks Think's vote tracker (despite the thread title having a 'votecounter')]. Think0028's shows proof.

..And I believe you're deriving your case from Caz because he was the first who mentioned my switchiness. Is that true, Toony? Or are you just being lazy?

One way or another, I believe you and said associate aren't associated as mafia, if such is the case. Where the case being that you're putting too much weight on a suspicious-point for it to seem to be pressure for me, and that its an actual vote for you.


Caz.

If the anti-Caz side  (So far that's Toaster and Tiruin - but if more join it I want to hear your answers too please) is saying 'it's rolefishing, rolefishing is bad', I understand that much.  Won't say I'm powerfully convinced by it alone.  Is there more 'wrongness' than rolefishing in what Caz has said?

@Imp: It's more of an 'I see what you did there and really want to punch you for it but I can't so my vote will suffice' note.

Back to you, target. While my absence has been wrought with RL issues and other things which could probably equal menial effort to fix (yeah depression, I'm lookin' at you.), I've been watching the thread from time to time and only able to watch than post. You seems slippery. Eager. Aggressive...Jumpy.

Now you may be wondering why I'm acting like such.

I wonder why you are, too. Because on the basis of subjectivity, your conversations to others have proven...biased. Favoring one side over the other. Subtle.

But perhaps you need a refresher.
Missing out on my query, you forget one part where I did answer you-by asking you, and if you did wish to answer it in full, you would've seen the answer through going thru my question.
You handwaved it and instead tagged and labeled the act-without responding to my hypothetical prod-as 'lazy and scummy'. How is that lazy and scummy?
Nextly, farther below, my suspicion that you're just pulling my leg (or other wild metaphors) and trying to undermine me...cheaply is now more apparent.

I voted you as an RVS, here. Then Cmega3 for his...flippancy, here.
Where else did my vote go? These are all my posts with votes, sir, with the last being the votecount.

Yeah, all links above point to D1 due to you cutting it off a post or so afterwards then coming back on D2. What's up, scum?

I don't get this. Vampire cult?
One point: Why the guess being Vampire, of all reasons?
Next point: Why a cult, of all reasons? Why a Vampire cult? Surely there are reasons why you led to connect those two things.

Here you state a bandwagon-yet only poke at the one dude on your tail and not the other two? Like, mine? Something's wrong there and I'm wondering why you're avoiding the other two.

And on your poke at Persus, how does this even make sense in the logical train? How does that hypothetical scenario make sense?

Persus13

I'd love if I could see input from Toaster and Tiruin and Cmega3.

...You're voting Toaster, why, instead of the other two on this inferably suspicion-list?

I am catching up. Imp, I do believe you asked me something earlier in one of your posts (which I couldn't find) that was an RVS-'whatifyouwere' type and that I would be replying by silence-ish. Where is it? 

Anyone have questions for me?
Nerjin

Huh... I hadn't even considered that possibility. I'm going to have to apologize though and hold off on posting until at least tomorrow. I'm just not in the mood for this particular game for some reason.

Maybe because someone revived you, huh. :I
...No note on that?

[Nerjin]

I will be honest. I was kinda upset that I was revived. I'm having much more fun in the other thread because I haven't let it get away from me. I let this one do that, and when killed I was thinking "Awesome! Now I can just enjoy the fire-works and not have to pay too much attention." But now I do...