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[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Cmega3: Persus13, Tiruin, ToonyMan
Max White: Cmega3, Nerjin
Nerjin: Caz, Toaster, notquitethere
notquitethere: Max White
Persus13: Jim Groovester


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. (~7 hours)

NOTE: I may end the day about 15 minutes early today, as I will be going from work to a party and won't have time to end the day after 5.

[ToonyMan]

@Imp:

I am not viewing Toony as anti-Town because of lurkiness.  I am not viewing him as anti-Town because of things he has not done, or for not having time.  I view what he -has- done as being dishonest and anti-Town.  He could have attempted to lurk with need, but he attempted to create the illusion of Scumhunting instead.  The first is necessary for him, the second is deceptive and it is the second he chose.

I think you're misunderstanding.  I didn't have time to read every post word for word, anything that caught my eye I would respond to, or at least put the effort into responding to.  You seem to be reading my struggle to write posts as me attempting to "look" like I'm scum-hunting but that isn't true.

Oh, and in case it should be said(it was always true) - I hope you got/get high A's, Toony.  Good luck man.

Thanks, they're done now.  I don't have another mid-term for like two weeks so it's a bit of a breather for me.

I'll take your un-vote to mean you're giving me the same attitude Toaster is, that is, "I've got my eye on you still".


@NQT:

Toony

He hasn't been pressured at all for most of the day.  Since nobody had the incentive to I'll go into unexplored territory myself.  He also seemed pushy on me attacking Cmega3 more, so I'd like to learn in further detail why him and Persus13 are scum buddies.

Yeah alright.  Unvote Jim.
@Cmega3:
Your vote on Max White was poor and Persus13 seems to have retaliated against you.  This seems fishy.  What's your read on Persus13?
@Tiruin (FoS for emphasis):
What do you think of Caz?  Why are you switching your vote so much?

I find it amusing that you FOS Tiruin for changing her votes so much when you do so also. I don't think changing your mind is a scum-tell, do you?

Somewhat hypocritical I know, but I there's a particular instance here:

Tiruin

Tiruin dons her Inquisitorial hat and robe.

Yet you're only reacting to questions when asked. Are you going to do some scumhunting of your own?

Interesting vision there Caz, do you not see scumhunting in the questions I return to the person? Do you see those questions proposed to me as scumhunting?

This is an awfully defensive vote.

And this is an awfully casual poke on a vote for a seemingly passive-aggressive statement.
Why is that an awfully defensive vote?

That I'd also want clarity on.  Tiruin, I don't understand your case countering Toaster here.


Also the votes are tied and it's my fault.  Where are you Cmega3?  Make a response or case soon.

[ToonyMan]

@Nerjin:
You think Max White and NQT are both scum?  That would mean they were double bussing each other, and on Day 1?  I don't believe it.

Though, NQT has their vote on you (Nerjin) right now so either Max White is town and stubborn or scum while NQT is scum going for a town lynch or town going for a reasonable case.

I believe the latter.  NQT's case on Nerjin is lynch-worth (for Day 1 anyway) and I don't get what Max White is trying to pull on NQT since the not-a-cop thing isn't very valid.  So I would say either NQT and Max White are both town or NQT is town and Max White is scum.

And Nerjin, NQT is voting you, and Max White is not.  If I have to break the tie (because Cmega3 never shows up or something) it's going on you.

[notquitethere]

Nerjin— So, your scum picks are... the people other than yourself that have put the most effort into the game? (type this here). Do you really think the scum-team could be NQT/Max/Imp? We're scummier than, say, Cmega or Toony?

Cmega— I'm seriously considering voting you to break the tie. What's your reads on the other players?

Imp you going to place vote?

[Nerjin]

@Nerjin:
You think Max White and NQT are both scum?  That would mean they were double bussing each other, and on Day 1?  I don't believe it.

No. I'm not sure either is scum. They're just my biggest suspects at the moment.

And Nerjin, NQT is voting you, and Max White is not.  If I have to break the tie (because Cmega3 never shows up or something) it's going on you.

I'm well aware. What's your point?

Nerjin— So, your scum picks are... the people other than yourself that have put the most effort into the game? (type this here). Do you really think the scum-team could be NQT/Max/Imp? We're scummier than, say, Cmega or Toony?

Apparently 25% and Null-leaning-scum means I've got everything figured out. Toony is busy so piss off. As for Cmega... Nothing has stuck out but I guess I'll look into it. I don't think you're scum. I don't think Imp is scum. I'm Only 25% convinced that Max is scum. Those are who I view as scummiest right now.

Cmega— I'm seriously considering voting you to break the tie. What's your reads on the other players?

Imp you going to place vote?
[/quote]

[Nerjin]

So I just read all of Cmega3's posts and they seem to consist of:

1. Answers my question. Wants to have a role with good role-play prospectives. [Nothing of note]
2. States he's never played mafia before. [Pretty important]
3. Reiterates #2. Comments on Imp's question of lore. Votes NQT for asking people specific questions. [Nothing of note]
4. Says he's going to cancel his vote on NQT because he was trying pressure out. Does not cancel vote. [Kinda weird...]
5. "What if he did it on purpose and it's a red herring." comment on Imps OP confusion again. [Adds nothing of note.]
6. Agrees with someone saying the OP confusion could be a typo. [Adds nothing of note again...]
7. Finally unvotes NQT after a few people have gotten on him about it. Asks questions that he never follows up on.
8. Is asked to clarify his intent from one of his questions. Side-steps the issue. Says no one will control his vote from now on. States that he      will be entirely responsible for the quality of his arguments. Never actually makes an argument. [Add little]
9. Says that his scum or town question could lead to mistakes [this sounds familiar...] and adds nothing else. [Adds nothing]
10. Same as #9 basically. [Adds nothing.]
11. Says his question will help him gain perspective on us but asks no new questions. Also basically side-steps questions asked of him again.
12. Votes Max White for being too defensive.
13. Talks about roleplay, says he's answered every question asked of him [he didn't], Says Max got too defensive too fast, explains mafia as a game, Says that Max is generally very calm [except... Max is too defensive too fast and this is his first game of mafia with Max], States he wasn't bandwagoning [except he kinda was], asks for mafia tips. [Adds very little but does seem scummy]
14. "Duly notes" that he should press questions. Fails to do so with his earlier questions and basically asks Jim to scum-hunt Persus for him (Cmega appears to be buddying a little bit). Also, asks if Bussing is a good plan. [Starting to think he might actually be huge fail-town or newb-scum]
15. Says he isn't buddying Persus and only did so becuse Jim threatened the both of them by accusing them of being scum-buds. Doesn't add anything else to the game. [Yep. Really looking odd, even for newb town.]
16. Explained why he edited the post. Has yet to take his time to do anything else.

Cmega3 you're active-lurking super-hard and I'm not sure whether it's you being super newb or really scummy. Do you plan on following up any of the questions you asked? Do you plan to defend yourself against accusations? Do you plan to show up before day end?

If you survive to Day 2 I would like to see the following questions answered:

1. Have you found anything else scummy with Max White since your vote on him?
2. Do you plan to ask questions to some players and actually follow up on them?
3. Who do you suspect most as scum?

[Imp]

Yep, voting now.  Just finished lining up every post Cmega3's made and considering them all.

He looks so newbie to me I don't think he's actually really even scanned any finished Mafia games, let alone read our suggested reading before the game started.

He looks so newbie that I can't read him as anything else but newbie.

No time to properly repeat that with Persus13 right now, it's off to work time shortly, but Persus13 isn't a first or second place lynch choice.  I'm not afraid of a 3-way tie at ~5.5 hours to day end, that's plenty of time to resolve it if it happened.

Considering the scummiest to me of Cmega3, Nerjin, and Max White, (the current 1st and 2nd place vote picks), Nerjin is the highest.  I'm worried about Cmega3 being so new and so imitative that he may be unable to do anything to distinguish himself from newbie/Scum.  If he has to go because he can't do that, I've nothing against him going now.  Cmega3 says he's been sick, has had school, been very busy...

Regardless, It'll help if people read these. They're fun no matter what.

Supernatural 5
Supernatural 4
Supernatural 3
Supernatural 2
Supernatural 1

Thanks for the links, I just read through 1, and I plan on reading several more, other than the 70 page one (seemed too intimidating)

I'm also reading through it.
Anyways, if you really think I shouldn't begin with supernatural, I may go for a begginers' one and come back later. 

Cmega3 - almost a month ago, you said you were reading those games.  How far did you get through them?   How much do you feel you understand about each, both in terms of 'what was going on' and 'why people made the posts they made'?  In general, when you read each player's posts, do you think you understand why they posted as they did or does it all seem pretty much random?

Anyway, if Cmega3 hasn't caught up on his understanding after a month of preparation, I don't know that he's capable of fixing this by the start or even the end of D2, making him a likely high vote target for exactly these same reasons.

I don't see great Scumminess in Max White yet.  I dislike his tunneling.  I worry that I don't see much of what he sees or feel the conviction he expresses in his claims as I read his posts.  I use that as a form of truth tell, and it's not ringing for me.  But I want to see more of his play over time and read more of his intentions (if I can) before I'm ready to step to remove him from play, he's not a high scum pick.

Nerjin is either scum or just a player unable to stand, being tossed helplessly around by the requests of each player interacting with him.  In a sense I see him as almost being in Cmega3's boat - the same playing choices that seem so Scummy, I don't see him as being able to play out of the situation he is in (honestly or dishonestly - be he Town playing like this or Scum playing like this).

I note his tone change when he answers me here as compared to his immediately preceding post.  Nerjin is a player profoundly affected by how he is spoken to.  This makes him very, very easily manipulated - that weakness doesn't mean he's innocent.

One thing I wonder about, this situation 'started' when Nerjin reached out to defend NQT from Max's arguments.  NQT's reaction was to invite multiple people to consider Max and Nerjin, which flowed easily and directly into a consideration of Nerjin's scumminess, which then greatly multiplied the types of pressure Nerjin was under, the levels of affect triggered...  Question boils down to is 'Nerjin Scum' or is 'Nerjin helpless' under these conditions.  Arguably same issue for Cmega3, but Cmega's intense inexperience clouds that water more.

While I wouldn't mind either player having more time so I could get a stronger feel of their evolving play, I do view Nerjin as the scummiest, and of the three likely lynch targets today, he's my pick.

PPE:  I see this returns us to a 2-way vote tie.  I accept this for now - we've still got that ~5.5 hours to resolve it.  I'll be periodically checking in.

[Nerjin]

You never tie up the vote this close to lynch time. There's like... 2 hours left man. Some information has to be gained.

[Toaster]

Why I, and everyone, should be voting Nerjin:

Max White:
Null-Lean-Scum

Notquitethere:
Null-lean-scum

Imp:
Null-lean-light-scum

This sums it up, especially when combined with this similar post.  This man is COMPLETELY unwilling to take a stand on anything.  I'm almost surprised he's voting, except it is obvious it's a token effort.

Who is unwilling to take a stand and stick his neck out?  Scum.  All those "I have reads but don't want to post them" posts from earlier just nail this down.  All these "reads" of his are just "meh he MIGHT be scum I dunno?"

Seriously, the only read of his that doesn't include the word "null" is a single "newb town" read.  Never mind- he redacted it to include "null."

Then he votes Cmega3 despite him not being on his "null-scum" list, but I will admit that is a tiebreaker vote (against himself) so take that with a grain of salt.


I think I missed some questions- I'll read back, but I wanted to get this out.

[Nerjin]

Unvote

Yep.

[Imp]

Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. (~7 hours)

You never tie up the vote this close to lynch time. There's like... 2 hours left man. Some information has to be gained.

Your math doesn't work for me.  Looks like there's even now over 4 hours left.  As I said, I'd be checking back periodically - if by some chance or chaos no other player did anything during hours on a weekday (each previous weekday has seen activity during these hours) I could have taken action myself before day end to ensure there was no tie when the D closed.

[Nerjin]

Dude, it's 3:30 righ-... I have failed at time. Anyway solved that little issue for you.

[Jim Groovester]

I see you saying that I told Cmega3 to unvote NQT and this is part of the reason I'm scum and deserve lyncing and me and Cmega are scum buddies. Suddenly, at the end  of one of Cmega's posts, he asks you questions about why my question looked so suspicious. Cmega appears to be defending me for a question I asked him that was pretty aggressive and made two people think I'm scummy. This to me appears to be buddying or getting too comfortable with another player who they should think of as a possible scum, not confirmed town. If Cmega was scum, he could realize that buddying me when I currently am already accused of buddying Cmega and being on his scumteam would cause people's alarm bells to go off and cause other players to vote me, resulting in my lynch. When I flip town, Cmega can argue that he is town too since I'm not town and one of the major reasons he looked scummy was because of buddying accusations about me and I flipped town, therefore he isn't scummy and is town. This whole lynching of me D1 distracts from other members of the scumteam that may be currently in danger of being lynched (not saying that parts true) and so gives scum extra time.

This is probably far-fetched and me being paranoid and seeing scummy traits in everyone, but I still think its odd.

I see, so it's not about Cmega3 at all, it's about you. You voted Cmega3 because you were worried about the potentially damning effects it would have on you.

Nope, that's not scummy at all.

If Toony had said 'Right, I've got this issue and I can't really play for a bit' (he did) and then not played for a bit, that's honest.  He could have logged on, caught up on posts as he had time, asked questions if he had any, let us know he was following the thread a little or a lot, that's honest too.

That's not what he was doing?

It seems like you would prefer he had disappeared entirely. That way he couldn't have done a shitty job scumhunting, thereby avoiding your suspicion.

I dunno about you, but I think posting is generally better than not posting.

Unvote

Yep.

Is this an admission?

Well, whatever. Have it your way.

Unvote, Nerjin.

I have reasons but they're mostly reiteration of other people's points. Passive, defensive, reactionary, unwilling to take a stand, vote Cmega3 just to break the tie in his favor, etc.

[Nerjin]

I couldn't break the tie by unvoting at the time. We need a lynch. No-lynching doesn't help anyone and a tie would've led to just another day of "Oh well I guess we gotta pick one or the other.

[Imp]

Dude, it's 3:30 righ-... I have failed at time. Anyway solved that little issue for you.

I couldn't break the tie by unvoting at the time. We need a lynch. No-lynching doesn't help anyone and a tie would've led to just another day of "Oh well I guess we gotta pick one or the other.

Nerjin, anything you'd like to do at this time to help further your wincon?  Are you currently posting in pure self defense, or with thought to how every action you take could (and should) be made because it improves your chances of winning the game?