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[Max White]

notquitethere

Your answer then?

Oh hey Max, would kindly tell me what sort of behavior would make you reconsider a vote, so that hopefully if it looks like I'm facing a lynch I can start acting exactly as prescribed.
Really? I mean truly? No, there is your answer. If you want to know what you have to do to turn around and make yourself look less scummy, figure it out.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I should say, my play specifically on Day One sometimes suffers mis-steps because I prefer concrete information and also I occasionally don't think about my precise wording when I post. Everyone in general's play on Day One is also hampered by the fact that there's nothing concrete to work off. I made a mistake in asking you a question about an unanswered question and this was quickly remedied— what more is there to say? I'm glad you answered the question eventually: I have a greater understanding of your rationale now than I did at the beginning of the game. If you think I have displayed a scum-tell then by all means say so and place a vote.

Your going me invite to vote for you? If you are town chances are you are the only confirmed town you know of, and you are going to invite me to vote for somebody that should be confirmed town to you. You are asking me to vote for the only person you know is town... Unless you aren't actually town and that sort of passive aggressive bullshit is not going to fly.
You are scum Notquitethere and I'll see you lynched.

Let me make myself clear. Your tell wasn't the bit where you jumped in on some random question. It was the bit where you got defensive about it, insisting that the mistake happened simply because it was a phase of the game you weren't very good at. When pressed about it, you just flopped around a bit and got even more defensive.

No I mean EVERYBODY is bad!

No I mean I'm ESPECIALLY bad!

Making up excuse after excuse, all the while I have been asking you why you felt the need to excuse yourself.

I get it, your early game etiquette could use some work, I don't care about that. I care about the fact that you seem to think that insisting you are oh sooo terrible at day 1 is justification for being damn scummy. It isn't.

Town cop isn't an unwinnable role, and I shouldn't have written things in a way that implies that it is. I've died twice on N1 as town cop in two BM's and then had the game go on to a town-loss: BM's on this subforum are heavily weighted towards scum, and obviously if I die after the first day there's very little I personally can do to help win them. Survivor probably isn't unwinnable, though I've never won as a survivor: it's just much much harder to win because most other alignments don't require living until the end, and there's very little to prevent scum from thinking you're a town-player and offing you in the night. I consider town and scum very winnable, and I was pleased to be regular town rather than a third party this game. I'll probably still lose because I'm cursed, but for now I'm optimistic.

I wish I had a bike that could peddle backwards.
Seriously, you were NKed twice as town on the first night, and suddenly you are feeling optimistic?
No, after that wincon comment, you don't look like town buddy.

[notquitethere]

Tiruin

I note that you seem to be voting or FoS'ing people who miss your questions? Something wrong with it?
[...]
Fixed that enough?

At this stage of the game, it's not unreasonable use of pressure, and sure, I get what your saying now.

Max

Oh hey Max, would kindly tell me what sort of behavior would make you reconsider a vote, so that hopefully if it looks like I'm facing a lynch I can start acting exactly as prescribed.
Really? I mean truly? No, there is your answer. If you want to know what you have to do to turn around and make yourself look less scummy, figure it out.

I think you seriously misunderstand my reason for questioning. Day One almost always ends in a mislynch, and usually there are pretty obvious signs on retrospect. I just wondered if you knew what you should be looking out for. I'm not convinced you do, but I admire your high level of suspicion.

Your going me invite to vote for you? If you are town chances are you are the only confirmed town you know of, and you are going to invite me to vote for somebody that should be confirmed town to you. You are asking me to vote for the only person you know is town... Unless you aren't actually town and that sort of passive aggressive bullshit is not going to fly.
You are scum Notquitethere and I'll see you lynched.

I am confirmed town to me. Asking you to vote for people your suspicious of is pro-town. I'm happy to offer rebuttals to your arguments against me. Talk about passive-aggressive: you were implying I was scum before without voting.

Let me make myself clear. Your tell wasn't the bit where you jumped in on some random question. It was the bit where you got defensive about it, insisting that the mistake happened simply because it was a phase of the game you weren't very good at. When pressed about it, you just flopped around a bit and got even more defensive.

As far as I can see, I was offering up an apology for making a mistake and giving a bit of context to why I made that mistake and also expanding on my related view that it is difficult to make informed choices on Day 1. I'm sorry, but what part of that screams 'scum' to you?

No I mean EVERYBODY is bad!

No I mean I'm ESPECIALLY bad!

Making up excuse after excuse, all the while I have been asking you why you felt the need to excuse yourself.

You asked me to clarify myself and I did.

I get it, your early game etiquette could use some work, I don't care about that. I care about the fact that you seem to think that insisting you are oh sooo terrible at day 1 is justification for being damn scummy. It isn't.

I don't even think I'm terrible at Day 1, you're exaggerating what I said. I don't even think I've been particularly scummy. You seem to be fabricating a case out of nowhere.

I wish I had a bike that could peddle backwards.
Seriously, you were NKed twice as town on the first night, and suddenly you are feeling optimistic?
No, after that wincon comment, you don't look like town buddy.

I'm not a cop and this isn't a BM. I am town and I'm still quite optimistic about a win. I can see everything you said, but I don't see how any of it amounts to me being scum.

[Max White]

I think you seriously misunderstand my reason for questioning. Day One almost always ends in a mislynch, and usually there are pretty obvious signs on retrospect. I just wondered if you knew what you should be looking out for. I'm not convinced you do, but I admire your high level of suspicion.

Ok, you don't think I know what I'm looking for, awesome! You can have your opinions. But how does an assessment of my competence in hunting affect your read on weather I'm scum or not? Why waste your time?
Are you hunting, or just doing other busy work to try and pass the time because you already know your scum team?

Talk about passive-aggressive: you were implying I was scum before without voting.

In my opinion anybody I talk to could be scum, but I vote when I'm happy to lynch. If you are unhappy about feeling a little pressure before you are voted for, I have some bad news for you.

As far as I can see, I was offering up an apology for making a mistake and giving a bit of context to why I made that mistake and also expanding on my related view that it is difficult to make informed choices on Day 1. I'm sorry, but what part of that screams 'scum' to you?

The bit where you somehow think the lack of ability to make a fully informed lynch choice on day 1 somehow relates to messing with peoples questions. Your logic doesn't check out, it is just a lame excuse you make up when you thought somebody had called you out.

You asked me to clarify myself and I did.

No I haven't been asking you to clarify, I have been asking you why mention that you are bad at all. To provide context? Ok, now we have context. You make scummy mistakes because you aren't the best at this stage. So what? What does it matter if you are the greatest day 1 player ever or the worst? What does this context provide?
Nothing really. It is just a shield you thought you had to raise when I called you out on a mistake. But it was raising that shield that was your give away. You got defensive, and you kept being defensive, and if anything got more defensive, and less consistent.

[Max White]

I'm not a cop

Now this is also scummy. You don't talk about your role day 1! Assuming you weren't scum then even saying what you are not gives the mafia information to make their kills. Actually claiming that you aren't a cop looks like scum willing to say anything to try and save their neck. Now if by some twist of fate you aren't scum, just really bad, then the mafia knows they have a better shot killing somebody else. But as scum you would care more about what ever will get my vote away from yourself than concealing that sort of information.
You have said yourself that townies often get lynched day 1, between you and I if it has to come to that, I would feel better about a not-cop than somebody else.

[Caz]

Persus13

Persus13: If you were scum, what would be your strategy to get through Day 1 without notice?

I have no clue. Do what I'd normally do except scum-hunt those I know aren't scum. Other than Cmega, I'm probably the most newb player in the game (on par with Kleril)

Why would you not hunt your scum-buddies? Do you really think that would be advantageous to your team?

Imp

Caz:

Your wording is a confusing. You're basically saying that people shouldn't help newbies because they might be helping scum, correct?

No.  I'd be interested in you explaining more about what's confusing about my wording, if you're willing to explain that further.

Not sure how else to explain. Your wording is confusing. If you could explain it in simple terms I'd be happy to re-iterate my answer to the question you intended.

You're basically saying that people shouldn't help newbies because they might be helping scum, correct? I guess I can agree with that.

No, I am not.  Helping newbies (or even experienced players) be they Scum or Town is a completely separate issue from FINDING SCUM.  Both can be done AT THE SAME TIME.

Okay, they're separate issues. How is this answering the question? If helping newbies is a separate issue from scumhunting, are you in favour of helping newbies or not?

Does this help you understand why I was interested in your answer to Max White?  I have no contention with your curiosity about his answer - but do you -still- wish to stand by your declaration of garbage in answer to his question?

Yeah, I'm not going to go back on my answers just because you find some imaginary fault in them.

Well, there goes that theory. Either Imp was being overly cautious, or is just spinning bullshit to distract from the real discussion going on. What do you say to that, Imp?

I say that your interpretation of the 'two and only two' possible explanations for my behavior and psychology is too narrow and does not include a correct interpretation.

I say that I have shown something of the range of Scumhunting I am willing to do, some of the complexity of thought that I'm willing and able to use in that Scumhunting, some of my attitude about taking risks with my Scumhunting, and some of my willingness to let a 'proved closed' trail go when it has been proved closed.

What do you say, about the BS you've been spewing?

All you've proven is your ability to follow through on obscure theories that offer nothing to help in the game at hand. Defending your actions as "complexity of thought" as if you've done something to aid town... a simple question to the mod would have sufficed in lieu of the discussion you opened the theory, which did nothing but waste our time.

Though I am glad you've given up on that train of thought, it does bother me that you want to keep going over it. Does it piss you off that I think your theory was crap - maybe even purposefully crap?

Max White

Not particularly. Why, you worried?
He seems to think scum tells aren't scum tells if you can make up a reason for them and say sorry, and frankly that is bullshit.

Not in the slightest. I will agree with you on that - town has less reason to be cautious, and usually only people looking for an easy lynch will back out of their opinions so easily. If they're not convinced in the first place, why did they say it, and if they were convinced, why did they back out?

Persus13

Voting someone in order to get them to do something is pressure voting. Voting someone because you think/know their scum and want them to hang is lynch voting. They aren't mutually exclusive, but they are different.

Pressure isn't pressure without the threat of a lynch. Why would they be worried if you're going to remove your vote after they answered your question? Did he answer so satisfactorily that you are now convinced he is town?

Jim

Play a normal day game, but don't use any actions, otherwise you might get found out and summarily lynched.
Being passive is about the only viable strategy for resurrected anti-town third party.

Fair enough. Is there any strategy you would employ if you were under threat of being lynched? E.g falseclaiming, etc.

Tiruin

Interesting vision there Caz, do you not see scumhunting in the questions I return to the person? Do you see those questions proposed to me as scumhunting?

I was referring to how you only reacted to the questions posed to you rather than posing any questions of your own. Do you really think you'll get an accurate reading from only interacting with a small fraction of players in the game? Or are you just content to let everyone else pose questions while you sit back?

Jim Groovester: You have been resurrected from death. How would you proceed, and how do you convince the town not to lynch you?

Tiruin lowers the front of her hat in a way that it points towards you.
"I am suspicious, sir."
This seems specific, and then moving to a general thought. What is your thinking behind the bolded part and why that exact proposition?

It's just a question. Why does it make you suspicious?

notquitethere

So this isn't your first spin round the merry-go-round, good. Scum can win by getting by without too much scrutiny: who hasn't received enough pressure yet?

We've been doing fairly well at keeping the questions aimed at everyone in the game, I think. Jim seems to be in an undisturbed zen state, but that could be just because he's an experienced player that can run rings around us. (Ooh, compliment-buddying... Nope. Just stating the facts.)

Nerjin and kleril seem to be the ones that haven't posted for a few days, though they have been active on the forum.

Do we still have that mafia forum bot? A list of posts posted by each player might do well to see who is trying to keep out of the way, though there hasn't been much lurking so far.

ToonyMan

It's less of a sacrifice to do so, but I don't think it's a very good idea unless you know what you're doing.

Unfortunately it's usually the least-capable that are convinced of their own competency. Such is life.

Cmega3

3. I don't know.

Uh oh.

notquitethere

I am confirmed town to me.

Of course you are.

Asking you to vote for people your suspicious of is pro-town.

No it isn't. That's trying to start a bandwagon. People should be voting for who they think is scum, not for who someone else thinks is scum. You're not that dense.

[Jim Groovester]

kleril, are you going to get around to responding to me anytime soon?

Jim
Have we ever had a player come back town but with a different role? There was something about a lone vampire who pimped himself out to the town in exchange for a chance to full a survivor role, but that is still technically third party. Has anybody ever still been a townie, but with a new skill set?

Not to my recollection.

Do you think the influx of newplayers will hamper town's ability to scumhunt?

Yes.

The town has a hard time figuring out if a new player is scum or just bad, and scum have easy targets to go after to make it look like they're hunting.

It's a double whammy on making things hard for town.

...But that's just like a new game of sorts. People don't know your role and can only infer such from later actions - you may be town, scum or some silly variant of death and destruction and chaos and argh. The difference is that everyone else probably has a heads-up on you via information while you lounged in the room of the dead and traversed the rotating door of mortality, meaning: you got extra notes from Meph.

That's generally how people play it.

It would probably be smarter to just lynch any resurrected player, but that's a crude approach to the problem.

1. Hope to gain a bit more knowledge on you guys.
2. I think it would generally be on their point of view of each side.
3. I don't know.

People ask you, "What sort of information were you hoping to gain from that question?" and you respond with, "More information."

Yes, you're really clearing up the issue with answers like that.

I suspect you had no reason to ask the question other than to go through the motions.

You are scum Notquitethere and I'll see you lynched.

Yet again I completely fail to follow your reasoning behind this vote.

Jim

Play a normal day game, but don't use any actions, otherwise you might get found out and summarily lynched.
Being passive is about the only viable strategy for resurrected anti-town third party.

Fair enough. Is there any strategy you would employ if you were under threat of being lynched? E.g falseclaiming, etc.

It depends on the reason why I'm being lynched. If it was because I was caught somewhere I shouldn't, i.e., a role result, then falseclaiming and accusing the person who revealed the role result of lying are really the only two options, but it's unlikely to stop me from being lynched.

For any other reason, strong argumentation usually works.

Asking you to vote for people your suspicious of is pro-town.

No it isn't. That's trying to start a bandwagon. People should be voting for who they think is scum, not for who someone else thinks is scum. You're not that dense.

Apparently you are though.

You're FoSing notquitethere for saying exactly what you're saying.

[notquitethere]

Max

Ok, you don't think I know what I'm looking for, awesome! You can have your opinions. But how does an assessment of my competence in hunting affect your read on weather I'm scum or not? Why waste your time?
Are you hunting, or just doing other busy work to try and pass the time because you already know your scum team?

You really don't get it. Good play is not just about hunting scum, but making sure that other players who may be town also do their job at hunting scum. I don't expect you to believe me, but I don't actually know the scum team, what with not actually being scum.

The bit where you somehow think the lack of ability to make a fully informed lynch choice on day 1 somehow relates to messing with peoples questions. Your logic doesn't check out, it is just a lame excuse you make up when you thought somebody had called you out.

If you say Max. From my perspective, I was just expanding on the theme at the time.

No I haven't been asking you to clarify, I have been asking you why mention that you are bad at all. To provide context? Ok, now we have context. You make scummy mistakes because you aren't the best at this stage. So what? What does it matter if you are the greatest day 1 player ever or the worst? What does this context provide?
Nothing really. It is just a shield you thought you had to raise when I called you out on a mistake. But it was raising that shield that was your give away. You got defensive, and you kept being defensive, and if anything got more defensive, and less consistent.

Okay, now I'd like you to think for a moment what a town player would do when questioned on a point. Do they just roll over? Defensiveness is not a scumtell. That's exactly the same argument the scum team tried to use to get me lynched Day 1 in WC3.

I'm not a cop

Now this is also scummy. You don't talk about your role day 1! Assuming you weren't scum then even saying what you are not gives the mafia information to make their kills. Actually claiming that you aren't a cop looks like scum willing to say anything to try and save their neck. Now if by some twist of fate you aren't scum, just really bad, then the mafia knows they have a better shot killing somebody else. But as scum you would care more about what ever will get my vote away from yourself than concealing that sort of information.
You have said yourself that townies often get lynched day 1, between you and I if it has to come to that, I would feel better about a not-cop than somebody else.

I can talk about my role any day I please. There's no Mafia Commandments that I have to follow. Hell, the games I've survived longest in are ones where I've claimed early. This as scum stuff is just baseless WIFOM and you know it.

Caz

Do we still have that mafia forum bot? A list of posts posted by each player might do well to see who is trying to keep out of the way, though there hasn't been much lurking so far.

Regularly checking the lurker tracker is pretty good for that. I'd noticed that Nerjin in particular has been a bit absent.

Asking you to vote for people your suspicious of is pro-town.

No it isn't. That's trying to start a bandwagon. People should be voting for who they think is scum, not for who someone else thinks is scum. You're not that dense.

I agree entirely: you misunderstood what I wrote, but I could have phrased it better (I also misspelt "you're"). To rephrase: asking a person to vote for the target that that person finds suspicious is pro-town. The vote is the weapon of town and if we don't use it then we cannot win.

[Max White]

Okay, now I'd like you to think for a moment what a town player would do when questioned on a point. Do they just roll over? Defensiveness is not a scumtell. That's exactly the same argument the scum team tried to use to get me lynched Day 1 in WC3.

Were you questioned on a theme?
Please, quote the exact question you were expanding on.

I didn't question you, I pointed out you were doing the wrong thing, and from there you felt the need to expand on the point in an attempt to try and lessen the scum mistake you had made.

I can talk about my role any day I please. There's no Mafia Commandments that I have to follow. Hell, the games I've survived longest in are ones where I've claimed early. This as scum stuff is just baseless WIFOM and you know it.

And how did those games go for you? Did you win?
Listen, if the scum know you aren't a cop then yes you won't get killed, but somebody useful will in your place. The life of a cop is worth more than yours, but you seem to only care about what will leave you surviving the longest with no regard for the town. Because you don't care about the town, do you? You just want to survive the longest, like all scum.

[Nerjin]

I'm not a cop

Now this is also scummy. You don't talk about your role day 1! Assuming you weren't scum then even saying what you are not gives the mafia information to make their kills. Actually claiming that you aren't a cop looks like scum willing to say anything to try and save their neck. Now if by some twist of fate you aren't scum, just really bad, then the mafia knows they have a better shot killing somebody else. But as scum you would care more about what ever will get my vote away from yourself than concealing that sort of information.
You have said yourself that townies often get lynched day 1, between you and I if it has to come to that, I would feel better about a not-cop than somebody else.

Unvote

Max White I don't see how this is scummy and your recent attacks on NQT seem rather like McCarthyism to me.

I can talk about my role any day I please. There's no Mafia Commandments that I have to follow. Hell, the games I've survived longest in are ones where I've claimed early. This as scum stuff is just baseless WIFOM and you know it.

And how did those games go for you? Did you win?
Listen, if the scum know you aren't a cop then yes you won't get killed, but somebody useful will in your place. The life of a cop is worth more than yours, but you seem to only care about what will leave you surviving the longest with no regard for the town. Because you don't care about the town, do you? You just want to survive the longest, like all scum.

I fail to see how this line of reasoning holds up. Are you trying to be an aggressive IC by chance because, otherwise, you're seeming awfully keen on knocking of NQT. Specifically though the ending seems more like "You're not doing it right! You are scum!" Every town player wants to survive. It's a simple fact that, as humans and players both, we want to be alive at the end of the day and start of the next. Town players know we shouldn't behave like that but we do anyway. I'm sorry, but you're just making things up it seems so my vote goes to you.

[Max White]

Chances are we only have so many people with inspects, most likely not many. The most people who claim to not be a cop, the more likely it is that a cop gets NKed. That is pretty basic statistics. Do you not understand how that works?

[Caz]

I agree entirely: you misunderstood what I wrote, but I could have phrased it better (I also misspelt "you're"). To rephrase: asking a person to vote for the target that that person finds suspicious is pro-town. The vote is the weapon of town and if we don't use it then we cannot win.

Thanks for clearing things up.


Max White: Would you say that you're tunneling notquitethere? When you are sure of a scumpick would you say that you stop hunting everyone else in favour of picking apart everything he says?

Nerjin: Good of you to post, though the content is lacking. Is Max White's hounding of nqt really enough for him to deserve your vote? All you say is "I don't think this is scummy". In what world is softclaiming before anyone else a town action? Do you think it helps the town for people to reveal their roles before the mass claim?

[Tiruin]

PFP - That 6 hours later? I spent sleeping. >_>

Caz

Interesting vision there Caz, do you not see scumhunting in the questions I return to the person? Do you see those questions proposed to me as scumhunting?

I was referring to how you only reacted to the questions posed to you rather than posing any questions of your own. Do you really think you'll get an accurate reading from only interacting with a small fraction of players in the game? Or are you just content to let everyone else pose questions while you sit back?

Jim Groovester: You have been resurrected from death. How would you proceed, and how do you convince the town not to lynch you?

Tiruin lowers the front of her hat in a way that it points towards you.
"I am suspicious, sir."
This seems specific, and then moving to a general thought. What is your thinking behind the bolded part and why that exact proposition?

It's just a question. Why does it make you suspicious?

> ...Did you read my question right or are you just skimming over what I did? I posed my own questions there, and continued along that line--now, at this time, there were quite many other people posting posting posting questions questions questions. It isn't in the sheer quantity that makes it 'scumhunting', but in its essence. I sighed to myself and re-checked checked back to see if what I asked was asked before-so I did ask seeing as they were not asked before. Said queries which you seem to be apparently discarding without answering in lieu of the thought train despite missing the query which attempts to make sense of said train.

As in, check my questions. The last question in the first paragraph is logically unsound after following up my query before that. Something which I do suspect you didn't do.

> ...So if something is just a question, it is then suspicious? Yes. In the matter of how you word it and how the other person analyzes it. Is there a problem in finding suspicion on that question?

Also you totally dodged my questions there bro. I'm not happy with that. Not a good thing. Please answer them, directly.

Jim

...But that's just like a new game of sorts. People don't know your role and can only infer such from later actions - you may be town, scum or some silly variant of death and destruction and chaos and argh. The difference is that everyone else probably has a heads-up on you via information while you lounged in the room of the dead and traversed the rotating door of mortality, meaning: you got extra notes from Meph.

That's generally how people play it.

It would probably be smarter to just lynch any resurrected player, but that's a crude approach to the problem.

By how people play it, it sounds more like a policy rather than a theoretical problem to be pondered. You do say it is crude here, but is being crude the most efficient way? That's what I was challenging earlier on the notes of being resurrected. I get your point on playing it safe, but I don't see it when it comes to faction-based wincon following. You say you'll play a steady non-act game, and then saying its lame because...well, yeah, in a game with that, I figure 'lame' is not using everything at your disposal for survival but in the fear of using such, it hinders survival. Here was the context of such and my query stands thus: As a third-party, you would be willing to act lone-wolf-idler given the pretense of being resurrected? Just the same as you would do if you were given a faction? Or would it be subjective given the matter of randomness and/or the situation at hand?

If people were to suspect you, would you just point fingers at others or do something else?


Nerjin

Max White I don't see how this is scummy and your recent attacks on NQT seem rather like McCarthyism to me.

(Please explain either in the [/abbr] tag or something what those terms are...) What is McCarthyism?

I fail to see how this line of reasoning holds up. Are you trying to be an aggressive IC by chance because, otherwise, you're seeming awfully keen on knocking of NQT. Specifically though the ending seems more like "You're not doing it right! You are scum!" Every town player wants to survive. It's a simple fact that, as humans and players both, we want to be alive at the end of the day and start of the next. Town players know we shouldn't behave like that but we do anyway. I'm sorry, but you're just making things up it seems so my vote goes to you.

Bolding for curious emphasis. You think Max is being an IC here? Why? Next, what do you have to say about Max' last posts because you seem to be intent on attacking him based on what he's saying to NQT--something which came off to me as but queries.

Second bolded part...what. That seems more like a rule you're stating, but then 'it happens anyway so there' is what I got from it.

Third, what. I really can't get you--how is the 'you're making things up' make sense there? Max is giving his viewpoint. NQT is giving his viewpoint. Minor notes along side each, they both have their own behavior--why do you generalize instead of attack those specific points?


NQT

Tiruin

I note that you seem to be voting or FoS'ing people who miss your questions? Something wrong with it?
[...]
Fixed that enough?

At this stage of the game, it's not unreasonable use of pressure, and sure, I get what your saying now.
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]

I wish I had a bike that could peddle backwards.
Seriously, you were NKed twice as town on the first night, and suddenly you are feeling optimistic?
No, after that wincon comment, you don't look like town buddy.

I'm not a cop and this isn't a BM. I am town and I'm still quite optimistic about a win. I can see everything you said, but I don't see how any of it amounts to me being scum.

...At this stage of the game, you seemed to me that you were just FoS'ing or voting people for attention to queries-giving off the sign that you seem more apt to query than to proceed with a line of interrogative statements and build a lead or case on that. Superficial strikes, to say bluntly.

On that thing on Max, you're replying to what his context is, right--the BM, explicitly? Because that thing you say there like 'I'm not a cop' could translate to a soft claim or stuff like that--wherein the term cop could relate to a lot of things with the theme of 'inspect' here. Just to say in advance given the...dueling statements on that one part. Max, I'm curious why you're bringing out that one part there-what did it seem to you?

[Tiruin]

Blaerghahg post button.

Chances are we only have so many people with inspects, most likely not many. The most people who claim to not be a cop, the more likely it is that a cop gets NKed. That is pretty basic statistics. Do you not understand how that works?

Max
Coming from this, yeah, we (ok, most probably I, maybe, but its wording is...intriguing) don't understand how it works. Your basis is 'basic' statistics, though from this, it doesn't make much sense. What do you mean by basic statistics, anyway? What do you mean by 'if x claims not y, then y gets higher % of being NK'd' theory?

Did you take in NQT's context there when you concluded? It was more of a tangent to the scenario before, as far as I see it (though..badly worded IMO, but it makes more sense on that point than him 'soft claiming non-cop').

[Max White]

Max White: Would you say that you're tunneling notquitethere? When you are sure of a scumpick would you say that you stop hunting everyone else in favour of picking apart everything he says?

Tunneling implies not watching others too. I'm keeping my eyes open, also still waiting to hear from Persus.
If I see something I think is questionable, I will question it, but right now I'm happy with NQT hanging.

Coming from this, yeah, we (ok, most probably I, maybe, but its wording is...intriguing) don't understand how it works. Your basis is 'basic' statistics, though from this, it doesn't make much sense. What do you mean by basic statistics, anyway? What do you mean by 'if x claims not y, then y gets higher % of being NK'd' theory?

Did you take in NQT's context there when you concluded? It was more of a tangent to the scenario before, as far as I see it (though..badly worded IMO, but it makes more sense on that point than him 'soft claiming non-cop').

Ok imagine we have ten townies. One of them is a cop, and the rest are not. When there is a night kill, there is a one in ten chance that it will kill the cop. If one of those ten chooses to claim as not-cop, it goes to one is nine. The more people claim as 'not a cop', the more likely it is an actual cop gets NKed. If it is actually a cop claiming as 'not a cop' that ruins any credibility that have later on in the game, and could be just as counter productive, if not more so. As such it is in the towns best interest to not reveal anything about their roles this early when it won't be helpful. It is, however, in scums best interest to say anything to stay alive.

Although come to think of it I don't see why it is relevant to NQTs sudden found confidence. In the two games he got NKed as a cop the first night the scum wouldn't have known he was the cop. He isn't more likely to be killed as a cop, so not being a cop shouldn't be relevant to thinking he is going to win. Claiming he isn't a cop was just an excuse for that comment about having some wincon that was somehow more winnable that all those other town wincons he had in the past.

[Jim Groovester]

Max White, are you going to explain your case on notquitethere in a manner that resembles coherency at some point?

Because right now, you're not doing that, and haven't been since you voted.