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Author Topic: Need a "new" car...  (Read 3779 times)

alexandertnt

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Need a "new" car...
« on: September 26, 2013, 06:57:14 am »

Hello.

My current car stopped working and now I need a new car. But there are so bloody many out there, and I am not exactly an expert on cars. I need a car that is reliable and fuel economic, and would like it to look reasonably "modern-ish" if possible. It will be used mostly on long, straight Australian rural roads, the sort of roads you go 100kph on the whole way with no stopping. Maintenance should be cheap and minimal.

So far, here are what I have found:

http://eliteautos.shopforcars.com.au/2005-toyota-corolla-ultima-zze122r-31597.htm - 2005 Corolla, supposedly lasts forever. A bit bland (and a bit old) but no real issue with the design.

http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Honda-Civic-2008/AGC-AD-14397384/?Cr=37&sdmvc=1 - 2008 Civic. I like the "moderny" design and they are supposedly reliable. Its a bit far away, so I would only check it out if there is a good chance I would buy it.

http://eliteautos.shopforcars.com.au/2006-ford-focus-lx-ls-31687.htm - 2006 Focus. Looks nice and is $1000 cheaper than the others. Interior is covered in buttons of varying functionality.

Any comments on the above choices/other recommendations? Any obvious "gotchas" I should look out for? Thanks in advance!
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acetech09

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2013, 11:14:06 am »

If you're looking for a bland but solid appliance that'll get you from point-A to point-B as uninterestingly and reliably as possible, the answer would be the Honda. The linked Civic is good but other Hondas are pretty much in the same boat. The Ford will be a bit more fun to drive (and has a much, much, better chassis) if you're into that stuff but it sounds like you aren't. Honda is king of the people-movers. It's a shame that vauxh- holdens aren't that reliable, since they're pretty good cars when they work.

Edit: I can also dispense some useful car buying tips if requested.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 11:30:51 am by acetech09 »
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alexandertnt

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2013, 08:28:07 pm »

If you're looking for a bland but solid appliance that'll get you from point-A to point-B as uninterestingly and reliably as possible, the answer would be the Honda. The linked Civic is good but other Hondas are pretty much in the same boat. The Ford will be a bit more fun to drive (and has a much, much, better chassis) if you're into that stuff but it sounds like you aren't. Honda is king of the people-movers. It's a shame that vauxh- holdens aren't that reliable, since they're pretty good cars when they work.

Huh, I would have thought that position would have belonged to the toyota. Interesting. What does it mean to have a better chassis exactly?

Edit: I can also dispense some useful car buying tips if requested.

That would be helpful, thanks.
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This is when I imagine the hilarity which may happen if certain things are glichy. Such as targeting your own body parts to eat.

You eat your own head
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acetech09

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 09:50:11 pm »

Huh, I would have thought that position would have belonged to the toyota. Interesting. What does it mean to have a better chassis exactly?

The kingship is sort of on opinion. Imho Toyota used to have that (<2003ish) but in recent years Honda has upstaged them in terms of all the spinny bits.

The Focus chassis is stiff where it should be and gives the car a really nice overall weight distribution, it makes the car much more responsive & confident in corners. Not sure how many of those you have in Aus - certainly don't have enough here in the US. The focus also has really nice steering and is all around a great car to drive. But it is a bit shoddier interior quality & possibly not as reliable (interior might start to fall apart but the mechanics are fairly solid). See this funny & accurate (and british) segment... it's for the ST version but there isn't much difference.

That would be helpful, thanks.

I recommend getting a cheap wireless OBD2 reader from eBay like this one but don't bid on that one because that one's mine :3. Hook that up to a smartphone (or find a cheap USB one if you don't have a smartphone) and it'll spit out diagnostics & any errors. Takes a jiffy and a good dealer should be fine with you doing it.

Also, when test-driving it, try to push the car a bit. Give it some beans on a safe straight. Hit a corner a bit fast. Nothing crazy enough that the dealer could hold you liable for... but just make sure the car isn't just barely holding on for life. Also, check for fluid leaks before and after a test drive, and visually inspect the engine for sketchy things that just look out of place.
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sneakey pete

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2013, 05:13:11 am »

Woo, you're from Australia, so I know something of the topic!
If you're going to be doing lots of long drives on rural highways, I'd go the falcodore* route. Small cars can be rather shitty for that sort of driving, and their other advantages, light weight meaning lower city fuel usage, and small size, don't really count for much out in the country.

A more detailed description of your old car (and why it stopped working, and why you'd rather drop 10K on a new one instead of fixing it) and a more detailed description of your needs (eg, how much do you drive a year, how much is highway, how much stuff/mates/hangers on do you need to carry, etc) would probably help us give better advice, however you know what you want so can probably glean something more from what we say anyway.

However, as I said in the initial paragraph, i'd probably go the falcodore* route if you drive in the country on highways mostly. They are bigger cars, meaning you can fit more stuff in them (ever tried sitting in the back seats of a civic or corolla for a long drive?), and they have the added benefit of being a common home grown vehicle, so in theory parts should be slightly cheaper and easier to get, and more places being familiar with them (i'd imagine that a mechanic in Longreach would invest in the diagnostic software and service manuals for ford and Holden, but would they get the one for Honda? maybe not..)

Of course, you mentioned fuel useage in your main post, which is something that the the smaller cars do do better at due to their small size. However, once you dig deeper, you find that the highway fuel usage's aren't that different, you see, city useage is mostly governed by stop start traffic, hence a lighter car needs less fuel to bring up to speed. however, once you are on the highway, its all about your wind resistance, and weight becomes the minor factor. The commodore and falcon are not much bigger. Going by posted tests, not manufacturer claimed figures for the 2008 models, the civic gets about 5.9L/100km, the Commodore gets 7.2 and the Falcon gets 8's

Now, that's a difference of about 1.2L per 100km, and at a fuel price of $1.60/L (and that's for premium, not the 91octane that is their minimum requirement), that's $1.92 extra per 100km, or for an average of 10000km a year, $192. As you can see, that is sweet crap all difference, particularly since you can pick up some 2008 commodores with similar km's to that civic for as little as much as $2000 less

Edit: the other thing i forgot to mention is, despite how much a focus might be slightly more 'sporty' than a civic, or vice versa, the Commodores and Falcons have over twice the power, a much bigger power to weight ratio and decent chassis's aswell.

Moral of my post is, Don't focus on fuel economy too much, $1000 bucks of purchase price less probably buy's you 1L/100km more fuel for 5 years.

*portmanteau of The Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore, two competing locally made large family sedans that were the leading selling cars in Australia up until recently


Edit: I'd sell you my R32 skyline for the price range you are considering...
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 05:25:57 am by sneakey pete »
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alexandertnt

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2013, 09:26:50 am »

Awww, thanks for making it more confusing :P

My current car's (1999 lantra) engine died and will cost 2.5k to replace. Given the transmission had other issues before this, it may end up costing more in the future. Might as well get something half-way newish if I intend to drive it forever (I figured).

Most of the road is highway, but my parents are moving and I might find myself in a city at somepoint in the future. It is only me driving it with virtually no luggage.

The difference between 5.9 and 7.2 is 22%. Spending 22% more on fuel seems quite significant. I do about 160km a day, so its 9.5 liters a day versus 11.2, or at $1.50, (9.5*1.5*5) = $71 a week versus 84, a difference of $13, or at 50 weeks of driving a year, 650$ a year. That seems moderatly significant...

I have no real concern for power.

I will still do some digging around anyway, to see what I can find.
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This is when I imagine the hilarity which may happen if certain things are glichy. Such as targeting your own body parts to eat.

You eat your own head
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acetech09

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2013, 02:14:04 pm »

Sorry I didn't mention that earlier. I personally don't think landbarges are any better than a smaller hatch/sedan... yeah they have more room and might be a bit smoother but I'm not a huge car multitasker & like a slightly stiffer ride. You might be different, I would recommend test-driving a landbarge and seeing if its worth the extra efficiency for you.
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sneakey pete

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 02:45:47 am »

Its worth pointing out that our country roads can be rather crap, not the sort of thing you'd want to drive a sporty hatchback on for a long distance. Or at least, a badly done one
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2013, 02:56:53 am »

Go Japanese. They will last the longest with minimal maintenance costs. Though when they do go wrong, you will be fucked. I would avoid the Focus - between 2006 and 2008 a batch of them were made in Brazil. This batch has a looooong list of issues that compund to become terminal, mainly in the fuel pump/fuel management systems. The Honda civic has a brilliantly engineered engine, and will cope very well with high RPM driving of the type you suggest.

alexandertnt

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2013, 06:39:08 am »

Yay, contradictions! I love internet duscussions on cars :P

I am going out to look at the Civic soon.

I have been looking at larger cars too but am having a hard time finding efficiency. This has 10l/100km (for highway driving), which is quite (very) high. My dad also had a Magna 1999 that got 10l/100km on the highway.

My search of Carsales (not in a url tag because square brackets breaks it, you would have to copy the whole thing):
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/results.aspx?offset=0&silo=stock&q=%28%28%28%28%28%28%28%28%28SiloType%3d[Brand+new+cars+in+stock]%29|%28SiloType%3d[Brand+new+cars+available]%29%29|%28SiloType%3d[Demo+and+near+new+cars]%29%29|%28SiloType%3d[Dealer+used+cars]%29%29|%28SiloType%3d[Demo+and+near+new+cars]%29%29|%28SiloType%3d[Private+seller+cars]%29%29%26%28%28Make{%3d}[Holden]%29{%26}%28Model{%3d}[Commodore]%29%29%29%26%28Service%3d[Carsales]%29%29%26%28CarAll%3dkeyword[omega]%29%29&vertical=car&limit=12&sortby=~Price

has not came up with particularly decent priced/km's Commodore Omega's, they eithr have very high km, or are expensive (Except an ex-cop car, which is probably priced like that for a reason...).

There a larger cars with a diesel engine that get 7.5k/100l average, which seems very good. But for some reason, they are all in Queensland (I am in NSW). Is there any opinion on diesel cars?

There was also a 2.4l Sonata for 7k which looked interesting. (It sold though). Any opinion on the Sonata, and the Ford Mondeo?
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This is when I imagine the hilarity which may happen if certain things are glichy. Such as targeting your own body parts to eat.

You eat your own head
YOU HAVE BEEN STRUCK DOWN!

MonkeyHead

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2013, 02:35:10 am »

Diesels are birlliant if you do high speed cruising. Not a great driving experience, but fuel efficient.

alexandertnt

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2013, 07:03:50 am »

Thanks for the responses so far. I have been learning lots about cars.

Diesel seems excellent as far as I can see, but all the current diesel cars are too damn expensive.

How about LPG? Something like:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/cars-for-sale/D_2144464/used-2008-FORD-FALCON-XT-%28LPG%29-BF-MKII-Automatic-LPG-Sedan-in-NSW-Sydney.html

If it uses 9-16l/100km, and LPG costs half as much as normal petrol, then that should cost about the same as a petrol car that uses 4.5-8l/100km right? Which seems crazy good. Its LPG only though...

I have read that the falcons are really smooth. I remember driving a friends ~2000 "fairmont" and it was like driving on pillows... If I test drive it and find that to be the case, and there are no "gotchas" with that particular car, or that type of car, then I might consider it...

I alsp apologise if this thread seems to be getting long, spending money on a car is really stressing me out. Trying to find good bang-for-buck, a car that wont explode just after you buy it etc, doubting your original choices.

EDIT: Well, apparently that model tends to have the auto transmission die at 170,000km. Which would seem to make the lemons ::).
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 09:41:39 pm by alexandertnt »
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This is when I imagine the hilarity which may happen if certain things are glichy. Such as targeting your own body parts to eat.

You eat your own head
YOU HAVE BEEN STRUCK DOWN!

sneakey pete

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2013, 02:47:17 am »

You'd want to make sure that there's LPG at the fuel stations in the area's you'd be going to as well, after all, you can't just fill up a Jerry can and refuel it on the side of the road with LPG. Otherwise, quite a cheap fuel option, though the prices, like the fuel, is more volatile than petrol.
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DNK

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2013, 11:06:48 pm »

Get an ~9-year old BMW, smallest engine 3-series available. The drivetrains/engines on BMWs are bulletproof (the $$$ repair parts), the small block engines (especially manuals) get decent mileage (I got 29MPG from a '94), and they perform excellently for their price point (was <$10K in US last I checked). Additionally, they're actually fairly comfortable seats and they come with decent luxury features. I loved mine and got an extra 6 years of use out of it before selling it because I moved countries. Thing got wrecked multiple times, still drove like new. Ze Germans... <3

Basically, BMW is the last car brand I'm ever buying, unless I ever splurge on a Porsche. They're a bit more expensive, but worth every penny. Also, older BMWs are well ahead of the design curve - they're typically design leaders, so their prior generation should be up to par with the next generation of the economy brands (Toyota/Honda/Ford/etc).

There are at least a hundred on that carsales website. Search for:
BMW
2003+
3-series
<$15K

You should be able to negotiate the prices down at least 10-15%. The 2-liter engines still perform suprisingly well. 0-60 is under 10sec for autos. Handling and braking are amazing.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 11:17:15 pm by DNK »
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acetech09

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Re: Need a "new" car...
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2013, 12:12:53 am »

Get an ~9-year old BMW, smallest engine 3-series available. The drivetrains/engines on BMWs are bulletproof (the $$$ repair parts), the small block engines (especially manuals) get decent mileage (I got 29MPG from a '94), and they perform excellently for their price point (was <$10K in US last I checked). Additionally, they're actually fairly comfortable seats and they come with decent luxury features. I loved mine and got an extra 6 years of use out of it before selling it because I moved countries. Thing got wrecked multiple times, still drove like new. Ze Germans... <3

Basically, BMW is the last car brand I'm ever buying, unless I ever splurge on a Porsche. They're a bit more expensive, but worth every penny. Also, older BMWs are well ahead of the design curve - they're typically design leaders, so their prior generation should be up to par with the next generation of the economy brands (Toyota/Honda/Ford/etc).

There are at least a hundred on that carsales website. Search for:
BMW
2003+
3-series
<$15K

You should be able to negotiate the prices down at least 10-15%. The 2-liter engines still perform suprisingly well. 0-60 is under 10sec for autos. Handling and braking are amazing.

This. This quite hard for most recommendations. But OP didn't seem to value driving/cars as much. Definitely would be worth it to me (although I'm old Audi guy & drive a 10yo allroad... hehehe) but I didn't see OP spending money on sportiness & such.

But if I was wrong about the OP, listen to this guy. He knows what he's talking about. Great new expensive cars don't get worse over time. They just age. There's a difference.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 12:15:19 am by acetech09 »
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