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Author Topic: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike) - BETA RELEASED  (Read 304536 times)

el Indio

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #360 on: November 10, 2014, 03:52:45 am »

A Syndicate rougelike would be cool.  Ever considered an Autoduel roguelike? It seems like Cogmind would share a lot of similar mechanics, especially the adding parts/weapons. 

I would like to add that your devblog is really well written and accessible, I know nothing of programming, nor am I a big roguelike fan but I have read just about all of your blogs.     
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #361 on: November 10, 2014, 06:05:39 am »

A Syndicate rougelike would be cool.  Ever considered an Autoduel roguelike? It seems like Cogmind would share a lot of similar mechanics, especially the adding parts/weapons. 
Hm, I'd never heard of Autoduel before (missed that one), though it looks Mad Max inspired and by coincidence there's an FTL-like based on that setting currently on KS. As for me, after Cogmind is complete I'll be continuing work on X@COM. Altogether this stuff will keep me busy for several more years at least! Have no idea what will be after that, but that's plenty far enough in the future for me, especially since I can't be certain I'll be able to continue full time, in which case it would spread out the time table even further...

I would like to add that your devblog is really well written and accessible, I know nothing of programming, nor am I a big roguelike fan but I have read just about all of your blogs.     
Wow, you went through them all? That's a lot of reading ;). Glad you're able to get into them, since I'm all about accessibility. Stay tuned for more--I already have three posts waiting to publish, and many more planned. Still not running out of stuff to say/show.

The next two posts cover some of my favorite topics: UI feedback and information warfare.
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Retropunch

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #362 on: November 10, 2014, 06:58:21 am »

I would like to add that your devblog is really well written and accessible, I know nothing of programming, nor am I a big roguelike fan but I have read just about all of your blogs.   

I just want to second that - although I do have programming experience, they're a very good read and I always look forward to new ones!

 Have you talked to Mark from URR? You both seem to be the big upcomers in the RL scene and both do great dev blogs - it might even be possible to do a joint blog/interview or something? He's a great guy (I actually know him IRL and didn't realise for about 3 months of following URR!!) and it could be good for cross exposure and all that. He's got some very interesting stuff on level design which you both seem to be very keen on as well.
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With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #363 on: November 10, 2014, 07:49:41 am »

Wow, you knew Mark IRL even before URR? What a coincidence :D

I do follow his work, and he knows about me (though I'm not sure if he reads the blog), since we're active in a lot of the same roguelike communities on Reddit, Twitter, here, etc. Yeah, we do do similar work, between us developing pretty much the main two up and coming ASCII roguelikes, though I'm not sure what we could really do together--such a solitary endeavor, making our dream roguelikes :) Mark's already plenty active in the conference scene, however, while I am out here by my little old self in the middle of nowhere by roguelike developer demographic standards ;)

I do find it amazing the amount of procedural generation he's managing to jam into his game, and the scope of it all, especially his art for which he's using what are apparently pretty primitive means (not an insult, by any means--in gamedev the simpler the better, as all that matters is good results!). (I've asked him about it before.)
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el Indio

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #364 on: November 11, 2014, 03:47:53 am »

Quote
Wow, you went through them all? That's a lot of reading ;). Glad you're able to get into them, since I'm all about accessibility. Stay tuned for more--I already have three posts waiting to publish, and many more planned. Still not running out of stuff to say/show.

The next two posts cover some of my favorite topics: UI feedback and information warfare.

I only read the Cogmind devblog, and if you want UI feedback, I probably wouldn't be following your progress if you didn't have a snazzy mouse-integrated UI.  Esoteric keyboard inputs tend to make me lose interest in a game.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 03:49:39 am by el Indio »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #365 on: November 11, 2014, 04:06:03 am »

I didn't expect you'd go further back than the Cogmind devblog, but that alone is still a year's worth of content :)

By "UI feedback" I mean from a design standpoint, where player actions and input have both visual and audio cues to show the effect. Lots of new related features being added to the map interface.

As for the input, yep, every single thing is accessible via mouse, though during the 7DRL Cogmind did receive compliments on the accessibility of the keyboard input scheme. Either way, I wouldn't dream of making a game without full mouse support and expect it to be popular. Only DF is capable of that ;)
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #366 on: November 13, 2014, 08:45:19 pm »

[Cross-posted from the devblog here--follow link for better formatting and light-on-dark style.]

A while back I mentioned a design initiative based on the concept of "map dynamics," aimed at increasing player focus on the map area as opposed to the message log or other windows. After the initial spate of related features and animations, this part of development was put on hold as the rest of the game took shape.

With much of the game complete, and development inching ever closer to needing a more polished-looking dynamic interface before reaching out to the average gamer, it was about time to revisit this topic since we could now identify all the necessary features and implement them in a consistent manner all at once.

Before now we didn't have a dedicated system for handling the large number of UI animations that would layer over the map area, as it's tough to design a system without knowing the full extent of what you need it to handle. The resulting implementation (i.e. code-wise) is less flexible than I'd like it to be, but on the outside it looks cool and the style is consistent throughout. (At this point I'm happy to sacrifice code quality if it'll get results, but I'll stop myself wherever it threatens to screw me over in the future).

Might as well pick up where we left off in February.

I went back to the "explosion prediction" feature and added brackets that show the explosion's maximum theoretical area of effect, just for reference since you can already see the more important shades of color representing damage falloff and obstacle blocking.


Explosion Prediction System 2.0 (I predict... you're all going to die. I was right!)

There was more pure "fluff" animation I wanted to add to the UI for missiles and explosions, but that was cut as a feature unnecessary for 1.0. Almost every other animation on the list was implemented, because they offer meaningful feedback or other information to the player.

Object Identification
No, I'm not talking about the "ID minigame" (subsystem) present in many roguelikes. More basic than that, the first step before you can take each action in a game is to identify what's what in the environment around you. Although proponents of tile-based games might argue otherwise, this isn't an issue unique to ASCII roguelikes. Sure objects are represented by letters instead of images, but the devil is in the details and you really need to know exactly what you're up against (enemies) and what tools are available (items). Images don't convey that information perfectly until you've learned what the game tells you they are, which is no different from an ASCII interface!

I remember holding the Alt key in Diablo 2 (sort of a roguelike, yeah?) to instantly see names for all items on the ground. That sure saves a lot of time and makes sense in any game where loot is plentiful (Diablo, Cogmind...)

Items
You can now call up labels for all items on the map, even those outside your field of vision in areas that you've visited before.


Item labels.

This is great for both surveying all items in view, and locating some item elsewhere on the map that you may not have cared for earlier but now really need and can't recall where you saw it. Of course, depending on why this hypothetical item was there in the first place, it may be gone when you arrive! Remember that recyclers clean up after a battle, or if they find items strewn about where they're not supposed to be (e.g. your stash).

In the 7DRL you would know this item was already gone, because (no one ever mentioned it, but) back then you could technically see doors being opened/closed, walls being destroyed/repaired, and items being dropped/picked up outside your field of vision as long as you had been to that area of the map before. It just wasn't very noticeable under the green overlay; plus you probably wouldn't expect the game to be so lenient in that regard. For the prototype I never had time to code a solution to properly record and conceal everything. As part of this latest update, explored areas of the map no longer automatically reflect changes since you've been there. They remain as you last saw them, including even labels for items that no longer exist.

With these and other labels below you can also see additional benefits from having a separate font for text and map (an idea I've discussed before): More label content fits in a smaller area, and the narrower font helps naturally distinguish label information from the rest of the map, an important necessity in ASCII roguelikes since the map consists of mostly alphanumeric glyphs as well. You'll notice that to reinforce that difference I've opted to use a style which inverts foreground and background colors.

Robots
Labels on Demand™ are also available for the other most common map object: robots. Hostile and allied robot labels are activated separately. They display the robot class (not full name), and are color-coded by that robot's remaining core integrity (from green to red).


Robot labels (hostiles).

Disarmed combat robots will be labeled instead with gray, so you know they are no longer a threat.

Notice that with all labels they automatically attempt to reorient themselves to avoid covering each other or important features (other similar objects):


Auto-orienting labels organizing themselves into the most visible arrangement possible.

Where there's a really huge cluster of items/robots some overlap will be unavoidable, in which case there's always the original scan window as a fallback for identifying objects. Plus that gives you more detailed information, anyway.

Exits
The whole point of the game is to move forward, so finding map exits is a very high priority. Finding the right exit is even more important since they don't all lead to the same place and you won't always want to immediately head through the first exit you find. Thus exit labels are fairly important and useful to have access to.

Calling up labels for exits will pinpoint their location as well as display the name of the destination, if known. Unknown exits appear labeled with question marks:


Exit labels.

While there's nothing stopping you from entering an unknown exit (except FEAR! =p), you will often want to do a bit of hacking to figure out where exits lead.

Because Cogmind maps are quite large compared to the average dungeon roguelike, it's very likely that exits will be out of the map view area. Thus when you activate exit labels, they will identify even those previously discovered which are now off screen--if you can't see a label it will show an alternate label (simply the name of the exit) at the edge of the view in the direction of that exit. These labels automatically reorient themselves along the map edge as you shift the view.


Shifting the map to seek off-screen exits.

Automation
We can take this system one step further by automating label displays where it makes sense.

Now when you spot a new hostile robot for the first time it will automatically be labeled directly on the map (with its full name rather than the class designation shown for manual labels).

All newly spotted items are labeled as well--it is AMAZING how useful this is compared to the 7DRL where you had to mouse over each item to identify it. Using look mode via the keyboard to tab between visible items was/is pretty fast, but "fast" can't really compare to "instant" ;). Simply by walking into a new room you can tell if it contains anything you want.


Auto-labeling items and robots. For the grand finale I blow them all to pieces.

Unlike manually accessed labels which only display one type of object at a time (either robot or item), as you move around automatic labels of either kind might appear, so you'll notice they use a different color scheme to avoid confusion. While robots are labeled green to red by remaining integrity, common items are gray, prototypes are white, and anything outside your current field of vision is blue. (There's a fourth classification with its own color, but that one's a secret.)

Auto-labels for threats and items are individually toggleable in the options menu, if you don't want them.

Auto-labeling of exits is accompanied by a recognizable beep that should stand out from the other interface noise, since exits are so important, though the larger label size will make it pretty apparent:


Finding and approaching an exit.

Input Scheme
We're kinda running out of keys on the keyboard--how are we supposed to control manual labels?

First of all I freed up the numbers. They were originally used to access information about inventory objects, but that was actually a minor inconsistency in the input scheme I've been wanting to change anyway. Inventory item information is now Shift-#, which corresponds nicely to the Shift-a~z used for attached part information.

Press a number 1~4 to label hostiles, allies, items, or exits. Pressing the same number again, or Esc, will deactivate the labels immediately if you don't want to wait two seconds for them to expire and disappear on their own.

We're also running out of UI space, so a new solution was required for mouse support. Fortunately object label buttons fit nicely, both physically and conceptually, in the existing scan window. The buttons need not be always visible, so simply hovering the cursor over what is normally an informational scan window switches its contents to a list of buttons that can be clicked to call up labels (or cancel them if you click again).


Using the mouse to access labels.

Note that if there are no objects of the desired type to label, a message is shown to that effect at the top of the map view.

While keyboard look mode won't be as useful anymore given that you can display map-wide labels instantly, it also auto-labels any object the cursor passes over. The name and details also appear in the scan window as usual, but it's nice to not have to move your eyes away from the map.


Object auto-labels in keyboard "examine mode." At the end of the recording I'm using hotkeys to automatically cycle between robots/items rather than shifting the cursor via movement keys.

Side note: I wonder how many players will actually use pure keyboard mode? Or whether anyone besides myself used it to play the 7DRL?

Combat
The labels introduced above are all useful both in and out of combat. We also have a collection of new labels that provide combat-specific feedback.

After a certain (adjustable) delay on entering targeting mode, the map displays the chance to hit each hostile robot in FOV.


Automatic hit% labels in target mode.

Where combat is concerned, the results of an attack are the most important feedback element, one that wasn't too obvious in the 7DRL. Back then I did add a "calculations" window in which you could see the values used in the attack formula along with precise results.


The calculations window showing more specific attack results. (That armor I happen to be using for testing so I don't get hurt =p). The level of detail shown is adjustable in the options. Content is also scrollable just like other log/message windows.

That window still exists (above), but we can make the most important information much easier to obtain through more on-map auto-labels for attack effects. If an attack damages a target's core (not a part), the map will flash that robot's remaining core integrity (as a percent). Destroyed parts are also named, and there's an indicator when a core is temporarily disabled (some electromagnetic attacks).


Attack effect auto-labels, Cogmind's version of the "floating numbers" you see in many games.

The system was originally also showing white numbers for EM-caused system corruption, but I decided to remove that for now since I think it works better as an unknown factor.

Combat labels are entirely optional because some players may consider them too intrusive. Attack effect descriptions do get in the way of enjoying the particle effects.

Being Spotted
Just because you can see another robot does not necessarily mean it has already seen you, but this information was never communicated in any way in the 7DRL. Now whenever you see a robot that has started tracking you, the space it occupies will glow for a bit.


Spotted by several hostiles on entering a corridor.

Technically a hostile robot may have started tracking you before you saw it, if it got your location from another robot or simply has a greater sight range, but it doesn't glow until entering your FOV so you know it sees you. In case you missed the glow or aren't sure, this information is now reflected in the scan window with a red '!'.


This robot has spotted and is currently tracking you.

Now that we have a more reliable way of knowing whether you've been spotted, I'd like to eventually add ECM mechanics that can temporarily prevent robots from noticing you even when you're in their FOV. This would make melee approaches more interesting and provide another tool for the stealth-oriented build. There is already a set of ECM parts, but they only work to escape detection after being spotted and tracked rather than avoid detection in the first place. [New ECM mechanics are for much later, since we're beyond the point of adding unplanned features until at least the first release.]

The next post will examine more feedback features (and UI animations!), especially as it relates to utility parts.
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Nighthawk

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #367 on: November 13, 2014, 09:13:52 pm »

This is quickly becoming the most polished roguelike I've ever seen. It might just ruin all others for me. :P
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Girlinhat

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #368 on: November 13, 2014, 09:42:26 pm »

This is quickly becoming the most polished roguelike I've ever seen. It might just ruin all others for me. :P
This is more polished then some AAA titles...

Parsely

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #369 on: November 13, 2014, 10:17:21 pm »

This is quickly becoming the most polished roguelike I've ever seen. It might just ruin all others for me. :P
This is more polished then some most AAA titles...
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #370 on: November 14, 2014, 02:28:09 am »

This is quickly becoming the most polished roguelike I've ever seen. It might just ruin all others for me. :P
Noooooo! Well, quite a few roguelikes have interfaces far superior to DF, but that does stop people now does it :P

But yeah, a majority of the game was developed for 7DRL, and much of the time since has been just taking that design and adding more and more polish xD. I'd really like to just release it as is and update as I go, but I'd also prefer to have the "full effect" when you first experience it. Because the first approach makes more commercial sense I may end up somewhere in between; the artist and perfectionist in me keep pushing it back, though.

This is quickly becoming the most polished roguelike I've ever seen. It might just ruin all others for me. :P
This is more polished then some most AAA titles...
;D
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( Tchey )

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #371 on: November 14, 2014, 09:05:16 am »

Kyzrati, you are good.
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Draxis

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #372 on: November 14, 2014, 09:09:06 am »

One incidental change I'm glad to see in those images is faster bullets.  It was very frustrating losing or running previously, not (just) because of the act but because each turn can last over 10 seconds when there are a huge mob of enemies shooting you.

Oh, and I did play with keyboard-only - except to scope out large areas of loot at once.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 09:12:14 am by Draxis »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #373 on: November 14, 2014, 09:58:55 am »

Kyzrati, you are good.
Thanks Tchey, you are a good follower. You even started that French forum thread which Google Translate tells me is titled "Cogmind, Drowning in the nuts" (<--gave me a good laugh :P)

One incidental change I'm glad to see in those images is faster bullets.  It was very frustrating losing or running previously, not (just) because of the act but because each turn can last over 10 seconds when there are a huge mob of enemies shooting you.
Yep, the weapons were intentionally sped up for that purpose. I wrote a bit on this issue back in January. They are still animated so it still won't be *instantaneous* like in a lot of other roguelikes, but I think having it all happen nearly instantly in a game focused on ranged combat would be a significant drawback.

In fact, that's why I stopped playing CoQ shortly after getting into it, because there are lots of ranged enemies and every time I'd die because I'd make a few steps and take a bunch of ranged hits before I could react. Barely even noticed the bullets, much less react by stopping to think.

As I mention in that older post, weapon animation speed is generally tied to how powerful something is. Weaker/common weapons will be really quick and take very little time, since you care less about them anyway, while anything powerful (especially big cannons and explosives) will take a little extra time. It's good for the suspense anyway. Plus not many enemies carry that kind of firepower.

Also to consider: One reason you may still end up watching a few extra volleys is if you are extremely overweight and moving very slowly (probably because your propulsion was shot out), in which case the enemy may get many more chances to shoot than usual. In this situation it's usually a good idea to start dropping stuff (or at least detaching it) anyway.

Oh, and I did play with keyboard-only - except to scope out large areas of loot at once.
Glad to hear it! Looks like you'll be able to go full keyboard this time now that we finally have a labeling system that's even more effective than using the mouse :)
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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #374 on: November 14, 2014, 02:53:11 pm »

Catching up on development on this.  Really looking good!


A consumable idea for you, if you're fielding suggestions:  A capacitor that provided a massive amount of energy for you for a few brief turns, during which you could turn on everything and really let loose.


Read about robots.

http://www.gridsagegames.com/blog/gsg-content/uploads/2014/08/cogmind_hunter_blueprint.png

If you're looking for ideas of premium content for a KS campaign or similar, a full set of these designs for most/all of the enemy robots would be really neat.


I also went the simple/direct route of letting you always know exactly how much integrity (HP) the enemy core has, and that information will be reflected in the color of their names, when I add that next week.

Can the enemy see your HP?  That might make some interesting AI choices when the enemy has both high damage/low accuracy weapons and low damage/high accuracy ones to fire.  (He's almost dead- use the accurate one!)


I have to agree on the above comments on polish; this game looks REALLY slick.  The little details in how you use the medium really shine through.
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