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[sambojin]

Sounds good. As you've said, it's a fairly non-typical scenario (20 vs 1), so there probably won't be as many UI targeting/switching sounds in normal gameplay. Or rather, they'll have context, because it'll be the player doing it.

The 22Khz sounds nicely robotic as well. For some styles of sound, having perfect "quality" actually removes from the feeling you're going for. I think you've pegged it nicely here.

Compared to mine, they fit the theme of Cogmind far better. I tend to end up with synthy/organic sounding samples that I then try and "chunkify", which while making them sound more "realistic", wouldn't fit with the robotic-scrapheap-terminal'esque thing that Cogmind has going. I will *eventually* get around to emailing them to you for a x@com sound pack (power supply on my main box died, so I've been jumping between backups and my phone until I get a new one). I'm looking forward to the evolving difference between little weapons and big, as it's something I often have difficulty doing. Little and big are easy, making middle-of-the-pack weapons still sound distinguishable (and not just a louder or multi version of a littler weapon) is an artform in itself.

It'll be great to see and hear it all in motion at once. As always, keep up the good work!

[Kyzrati]

Sounds good. As you've said, it's a fairly non-typical scenario (20 vs 1), so there probably won't be as many UI targeting/switching sounds in normal gameplay. Or rather, they'll have context, because it'll be the player doing it.

The context will certainly make a big difference. Listening to it without visuals is a somewhat strange disconnected experience.

The 22Khz sounds nicely robotic as well. For some styles of sound, having perfect "quality" actually removes from the feeling you're going for. I think you've pegged it nicely here.

I'm glad you say that, because I was hoping it could have that effect. Interestingly *all* games used to use 22kHz. If/when music is added I may have to up it to 44.1 for that; was wondering if at that point I should stick with the 22kHz sfx to differentiate them and stick with the theme. In fact, while I really want music I'm not sure it's appropriate for the game at all... That's a different topic for a future post, though. Not getting into that yet.

Compared to mine, they fit the theme of Cogmind far better. I tend to end up with synthy/organic sounding samples that I then try and "chunkify", which while making them sound more "realistic", wouldn't fit with the robotic-scrapheap-terminal'esque thing that Cogmind has going. I will *eventually* get around to emailing them to you for a x@com sound pack (power supply on my main box died, so I've been jumping between backups and my phone until I get a new one).

So *that's* why you suddenly disappeared again
I was recently notified by Draxis that he's working on another X@COM mod right now. Not sure if he'll be needing/wanting new sounds for that. Definitely interested in hearing the results of your process, though.

I'm looking forward to the evolving difference between little weapons and big, as it's something I often have difficulty doing. Little and big are easy, making middle-of-the-pack weapons still sound distinguishable (and not just a louder or multi version of a littler weapon) is an artform in itself.

I never do pure volume increases--it was mostly a case of "cooler" effects applying to better weapons, though in cases where the same technology is used at multiple different levels they'll naturally need to sound somewhat similar. For those I tended to add an extra layer or two of sound. For example a simple plasma gun would be a standard sound, while the cannon version could add a "warbly" background layer; and of course the latter's volume would be a little higher overall because it is a cannon. A better version of an EM weapon could add more layers of static, or a different kind of background static. However, there really aren't more than 2-3 levels for a given type of technology due to how the game uses different types of technology over different level ranges. Other ways to differentiate similar weapons is via their charging sound, or calculation sounds for guided versions.

[sambojin]

I didn't so much mean a simple volume increase as what you described (although volume has it's place). Layering, volume, echo/depth, widening of stereo, multiplying, pitch-shifting or just tweaking the base sound with envelopes and effects all tend to be ways I do it. Unfortunately I do it fairly sporadically, with no real workflow parameters, so sometimes it works great, sometimes not.

Speaking of effects, I do tend to use stereo delay to give projectiles/rockets "movement", but it does require an engine that does stereo panning for it to work (it's probably the only default parameter I use). It defaults "going right", but panning gives it going straight (up/down in roguelikes) or left, as fast as you want it to sound. It's a cheap and cheesy effect, so I'll have to remember to re-centre them all before I package them up. Worked very well in a little project I played with years ago, so I've habitually stuck to it, but I really shouldn't.

[Kyzrati]

I didn't so much mean a simple volume increase as what you described (although volume has it's place).

Yeah, I was just referring to the comment "not just a louder or multi version of a littler weapon," reinforcing that I don't do that, either.

Speaking of effects, I do tend to use stereo delay to give projectiles/rockets "movement", but it does require an engine that does stereo panning for it to work (it's probably the only default parameter I use). It defaults "going right", but panning gives it going straight (up/down in roguelikes) or left, as fast as you want it to sound. It's a cheap and cheesy effect, so I'll have to remember to re-centre them all before I package them up. Worked very well in a little project I played with years ago, so I've habitually stuck to it, but I really shouldn't.

Panning is one thing I can't do in my engine. I'd say it'd work best in a roguelike with facing--X@COM would be a good candidate, but then you have multiple units and sounds are always heard by whomever is closest to the source, so directionality would be more confusing than anything. The idea of left/right of your screen position is interesting, though I think it would get tiring during longer sound-heavy confrontations to always have the audio come from one side.

[sambojin]

Yeah. It works alright if there is background music, which serves to "centre" the ear's response. Otherwise it would feel very strangely lopsided. It's nice for launcher effects (it gives the feeling of the rocket launching away for you), but some effects shouldn't be too far off centre (or have too much movement during the sample) or it just sounds like your speakers are broken.

[Kyzrati]

Back from my latest trip, with a development-oriented post about the audio engine in Cogmind: http://www.gridsagegames.com/blog/2014/05/audio-engine/

[forsaken1111]

Back from my latest trip, with a development-oriented post about the audio engine in Cogmind: http://www.gridsagegames.com/blog/2014/05/audio-engine/

Very nice. So this means burst fire type weapons will vary the sound per shot, or per burst?

[Kyzrati]

Depends on what kind of burst it is: If the "burst" is implemented as a true multi-projectile weapon where each projectile is a separate particle, then yes each will be different; for machine-gun type weapons the bullets are too fast so the entire "burst" is a quick/short sound sample anyway--the individual bullets won't be varied, but the sound as a whole will still be different each time fired. In any case, makes firing everything a good bit less monotonous (literally ).

[Kyzrati]

Read about the techniques used to put together the individual sound samples in Cogmind (last post in the sfx series before moving on to something else--right now I'm actually designing robots):
http://www.gridsagegames.com/blog/2014/05/sound-design-cogmind/

A two-layer explosion:

[SalmonGod]

PTW

[Retropunch]

Interesting post on audio design - I did some audio work on a few games and it's something I'm always annoyed at that indie/small studio game devs ignore this part so much (except for Bastion and a few notable exceptions). This is a very useful page/document on mixing techniques, and really can help pull stuff together if followed: http://facweb.cs.depaul.edu/sgrais/mixing.htm

I'd especially recommend looking into doing more with stereo-space/panning. Classic horror games make excellent use of the stereo-field (especially hard pans left and right) and that always gives a much bigger sense of space to the game.

[Kyzrati]

Thanks for the link--that's a pretty awesome collection of techniques!

It's an area especially ignored by traditional roguelikes, but I've always believed that audio is a huge part of any video game experience (at least 50%). Too bad I'm not professional enough to take it as far as it could go, and too stubborn to let someone else do what I'm at least somewhat capable of I do want to get a composer to help out since there's no way I'm doing music, but that's another topic for later.

Panning/stereo would be nice, but difficult to fit into a 2D game without any directionality. You can based it on screen position regardless, but that's kind of forcing it. I might add it if it were simple, but doing so would require a new audio engine since what I've got running now is too basic--SDL_mixer doesn't even support pitch variation without hacks (which fortunately are working in any case; they add so much variety!).

[Retropunch]

Glad it was useful! I'm no expert on SDL_Mixer but can you use this function? https://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_mixer/docs/SDL_mixer_80.html

Even for just atmospheric effects (which I'd suggest over music) it'd be great to have.

[Kyzrati]

Haha... ha... um... yeah, I guess that would work. Oops. I wrote my audio engine a long time ago using SDL_mixer, and back then I was totally inexperienced and not looking into advanced features. Apparently I forgot it *can* do that! Never did go back to look at the API... Doesn't look like it would be super easy to add, just because I'd have to integrate it into the complete channel system I already built and use all over the place. Still something to look into for the future, though, especially for ambient audio which is a separate system from the non-looping samples.

I am leaning towards atmospheric/ambient audio myself, although as a long-time fan of VGM it would disappoint me to not use music in my first commercial game. Perhaps a trailer should at least be accompanied by music?

[Retropunch]

Haha... ha... um... yeah, I guess that would work. Oops. I wrote my audio engine a long time ago using SDL_mixer, and back then I was totally inexperienced and not looking into advanced features. Apparently I forgot it *can* do that! Never did go back to look at the API... Doesn't look like it would be super easy to add, just because I'd have to integrate it into the complete channel system I already built and use all over the place. Still something to look into for the future, though, especially for ambient audio which is a separate system from the non-looping samples.

I am leaning towards atmospheric/ambient audio myself, although as a long-time fan of VGM it would disappoint me to not use music in my first commercial game. Perhaps a trailer should at least be accompanied by music?

Yeah for ambient stuff a lot of panning does wonders I think. Music in a trailer, and even a 'starting song' like DF would be great, I just think it's probably better with ambient music for the most part.