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[Ukrainian Ranger]

Is this still a design game? Or it turned into "manage armed forces of the nation" game?

[Patrick Hunt]

Both.

[Aseaheru]

Its design sorta still.

I now really want to make a pair of games for this sorta thing... Pity I have no idea how.

[Funk]

Paratroop raids are far more effective than bombing, many as the bombs are placed by hand it the vital points.
second our troops should out number the defenders and out class and out gun them.

The risks to cod should be minimal as the recovery should take place under cover of darkness or in the early morning.
Assuming that the cod is fired apron its hull should be proof against rifle bullets and anything bigger is probably not available to the local Moldavian guards and can probably be evaded or torpedoed.

aseaheru if i was doing a both design and manage armed forces of the nation id have multiple military turns to each design turn.

[Patrick Hunt]

First we need an explosive.

You better design a timed charge.

[3_14159]

I've recalculated on the impact of the carriers on the fighting over Crow's Island. Assuming they have turnaround-times with exclusive parts of ten minutes (that is, landing, getting it off deck and then later getting it on deck and taking off), that means six planes per hour per carrier serviced, with a total of 24. This will probably not decide the bigger airbattles, but will definitely affect their routine operations.
So, the refined plan:
Day 1: Send off the naval assault force including available Herrings. Send off Cods with supplies, singly, to arrive as soon as possible.
Launch most of the Sparrows in a bid for air dominance, followed by the Ospreys. Their goal for now is to engage the enemy with much higher numbers, destroy most of the ones patrolling over Crow's Island then cover short bombing missions both against land and sea targets, then retreat again. Ospreys attack the enemy fleet as far as it's lying near Crow's Island. Repeat that until constant air superiority can be achieved.
Launch Albatross against enemy airfields, to arrive about an hour before the aerial attack. Crater the runway. This allows us to stop them reinforcing their planes. Any additional bombers (I don't know the number of enemy airfields) wait until the survivors land, then bomb them.
Day 2 or 3: The fleet arrives. Combat with the enemy fleet (hopefully, only a smaller number). Do another air superiority mission (including Albatross' airfield bombing), then concentrate all Ospreys on the enemy fleet.
Additionally, the Cods arrive with reinforcements.

Is this still a design game? Or it turned into "manage armed forces of the nation" game?

Hasn't it always kind of been?
But yes, doing it with separated military and design turns would be an awesome idea. With generals able to request certain designs, and so on.

Paratroop raids are far more effective than bombing, many as the bombs are placed by hand it the vital points.
second our troops should out number the defenders and out class and out gun them.

The risks to cod should be minimal as the recovery should take place under cover of darkness or in the early morning.
Assuming that the cod is fired apron its hull should be proof against rifle bullets and anything bigger is probably not available to the local Moldavian guards and can probably be evaded or torpedoed.

That requires the paratroopers to survive up to their target, in hostile terrain. Plus, unless we somehow develop high-altitude parachuting equipment, it requires our bombers to be vulnerable to attacks.

[Aseaheru]

Spoiler: nothing at all with the game. Please ignore except Funk. (click to show/hide)

Funk, the idea I had was two games, a one where you are the generals and give production orders and have 6 or so turns for each R&D one, a R&D game where you fulfill the requirements from the GM, the "Generals" and whatever you come up with and have it mostly like this sort of thing. So yah. Each game gets random things to do, each game gives the other something to do. So the generals may be told to capture and hold a spot for the government and to capture things for the R&Ders.

[Patrick Hunt]

Works for me, just do carrier and cruiser as joint first priority.
They're the most important targets either way.

Can I suggest 1 addition.

Send the ravens armed with torpedos on a delayed run.

They hit after the Ospreys so the combined Sparrow and Osprey force is fighting lightnings.

With a 3-1 edge no lightnings can go for the Ravens and they'll increase the bombing runs damage.

Just for the first run when they have the element of surprise, make the first assault as crushing as possible.

[evilcherry]

Spoiler: nothing at all with the game. Please ignore except Funk. (click to show/hide)

Funk, the idea I had was two games, a one where you are the generals and give production orders and have 6 or so turns for each R&D one, a R&D game where you fulfill the requirements from the GM, the "Generals" and whatever you come up with and have it mostly like this sort of thing. So yah. Each game gets random things to do, each game gives the other something to do. So the generals may be told to capture and hold a spot for the government and to capture things for the R&Ders.

I offer to Co-GM if you were happy with it

[Aseaheru]

I dont have the thingies to do the guff.
Or whatever.
I wonder if Ebbor would share or something. Heck, we may be able to run it alongside this one.

[3_14159]

Can I suggest 1 addition.

Send the ravens armed with torpedos on a delayed run.

Note that the Ravens are unable to carry torpedoes nor bombs; you mean the Seagull that's currently retired. We may be able to get it released, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Patrick Hunt]

Mounting them shouldn't be hard, the Seagull was the Raven and we have the specs.

In 2-3 days we should be able to modify a fair few if we devote enough man power to it and it's mostly for the morale impact.

Hit an enemy who thinks the attack is over and it does a lot of damage.

[evilcherry]

The seagull was designed in the same idea of the Raven but is ultimately much larger and I bet their parts are not compatible.

That said I have no objections to reactivating the Seagull fleet, if feasible, for we need every airframe today.

[10ebbor10]

A few more questions for formulating a new strategy:
- How much does it cost to update the Sparrow from Mark II to Mark IIA?
- How much land does still remain on Crow's Island? How many men? How many has the enemy? Could you insert a field for Crow's Island only?
- The bomber factory should, I think, produce the unarmed Albatross variant, having produced eleven last year.
- In case there having been combats, how do the Sparrows Mk IIa and Mk III fare?

My basic plan would be the following:
- Achieve air superiority around the island using the Sparrows and Albatrosses for airfield suppression and after-raid damaging
- Bomb the enemy
- Sail near our complete available fleet to Crow's Island, establishing naval superiority [1]
- Land supplies, shell them, bomb them
- Hope.

In order of questions
   -Difference in cost?
   -Update was unfinished. This situation will be addressed shortly
   -Update was unfinished. This situation will be addressed shortly
   -Both had not been introduced at the end of the year.

Note: Your and their losses have not been subtracted from units yet.

@10ebbor: Another question: Are there further specs available for the enemy tanks?

Update was unfinished. This situation will be addressed shortly.

Hasn't it always kind of been?
But yes, doing it with separated military and design turns would be an awesome idea. With generals able to request certain designs, and so on..

I'm actually seriously comtemplating this. Just doing 1 military turn, and 1 design turn. Most of the the time, I'd put them together, but sometimes I'd separate.

Another note, the seagull fleet amounted to a little less than 30 planes, IIRC.

And the reason why designs were not bought is that it's not a zero cost operation. The cost might not be measured, but the USSR is not giving away it's military secrets for free. The government is kind off unwilling to buy new designs if you aren't using the old ones too.

[Taricus]

Well, we ought to push the Sparrow III into service as quickly as we can, with the major improvements in speed and firepower it has.