Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Patrick Hunt]

Hmm, yeah good point. Well have to get that monowing out we have maybe 3 years if our enemies luck stinks before they throw a plane that out matches the Raven at us.

[3_14159]

But we actually need some torpedo bomber.
Currently, we have one main objective: Keep Crow's Island.
For that, we need to either repel any invasion or make them not launch any. For both of those, we ideally need air and naval superiority, or at least a naval strike ability to interdict supplies and troop transports.
The latter we can currently only achieve by using planes (or possibly submarines) as our fleet is outmatched. Therefore, we need some kind of naval attack capacity for planes - either a raven refit or a new design.

I would rather lose or have a stalemate in the air war for now if Crow's Island remains unchallenged, especially if that also reduces their commercial raiding ability and naval superiority.

And, putting the new engine on the Raven: I don't believe that'll work. It's fifty percent heavier at 4.5 times the power. Best case means a major redesign of the airframe and a completely disaster for controls and manoeuvrability. Worst case might be the front part of the aircraft torn away.
Plus, monowings should be much faster due to less air resistance.

@ICBM: Nope, that was my glorious design attempt of the Crow recon plane ;-)

[Ukrainian Ranger]

The Surcouf had
1 motorboat
1 floatplane
2 203 mm guns
2 37 mm anti-aircraft guns
4 × 13.2 mm anti-aircraft machine guns
8 × 550 mm torpedo tubes
4 × 400 mm  torpedo tubes

Not vastly better armed than a Guépard-class destroyers
That had
    5   138 mm (5.4 in)/40 calibre guns
    4   37 mm (1.5 in)/50 calibre AA guns
    4  13.2 mm AA guns
    2  triple 550 mm  torpedo tubes
    4  depth charge throwers
    2  depth charge racks

Now im not proposing that every thing is to be proper submarine, just that they should be able to snorkel and travel for an hour or so underwater.

Let's not forget that destroyer is three times faster, and having less tonnage

We don't have enough Ravens yet for a Raven modification.

We need all of this turns production run of them as fighters just to give us a large enough force to provide air cover.
Even if my tactic gets the best outcome of triple production that puts us at under 400 vs 600+ however many the enemy is producing. So odds are it'll still be 2-1 in numerical favor of the enemy although I doubt they'll commit more then half of that to the offense.

t's just an educated guess but I'd predict the enemy has production of at least 200 a year very likely more and they've seen that ours are superior so I'd bet they're already working to upgrade or redeisgn there own to counter us. So gotta get our fighter numbers up fast.

Btw, should we test the new enginge in the Raven? The vastly superior speed could come in extremely handy in a fight if we're out numbered.

At present we're probably better off being 1 turn later on bombers then low on fighters.

I once again say that tripling of raven production can't be done without neglecting all other branches.

New engine will never fit on the raven's airframe as it is several times bigger than what Raven has


What I am sure about is that production of trucks is a waste of production points Current war doesn't require any mobility

[Patrick Hunt]

The problem is we won't have a stalemate, we'll lose the air war entirely. If we lose we can't stop them from doing anything.

We need to have at least 60% as many Ravens as the enemy has fighters to maintain an even playing field between us, any less and if they decide to assault in force it'll turn into a Pyhrric victory if we win at all. Even at that we'll be damn near crippled ourselves in the process.

About all we can safely do is take control of the skies then maybe bolt some stuff to the bottom of the Ravens after that. Once we have control then sending large numbers the pure fighters should be able to buy enough time for the bombers to get through to the targets then the bombers reinforce the fighters once they drop the bombs.
It limits the attack runs we can carry out using Raven bombers but it's the only way we can do it without overwhelming losses if the enemy is smart.

I doubt we have more then this 1 turn where BOB style massed defense will be effective, after a year they will learn to attack in larger concentrated forces and take away our advantage, once they do that we need to be able to maintain a force of probably 75% the enemy assault forces size to avoid taking to many losses in the battle not including the bombers and they are going to be looking for a way to counter our superior design.

We can't fight them with inferior numbers for very long until we get the Monowing up, with that we're fine it'll hold out for probably 5 years before the enemy has it's own and we can probably stay ahead. But our land based tech is likely to be inferior for a long time so we're divided between air superiority fighters and ground support bombers which will slow us down a bit until we have enough teams for a second air team.



UR we have got 0 supply problems at present and are increasing our mining to up our supply income anyway. We should be able to keep up perfectly fine. Have a little faith UR I'm not great at designs but tactics and management? That's my house.
Proven by the fact that to date every single one of my predictions has been correct. Just wait and watch what happens UR, you might be surprised .
Also, you did doubt every one of my predictions as well you should learn to listen to other peoples opinions more.

In designs I always listen to other peoples ideas and run with them, you need to listen to my opinion more on tactics it's what I'm good at and to date the results have always supported my opinion not yours. I did consider our supply situation, that is why I've bumped up our mining efforts at the same time as production.

Can I also point out you said we don't need land mines, if we had my weed wacker mines on Crows beaches right now this would be a whole different fight. Let them land, under artillery and MG fire advancing on beaches full of mines with a 360 degree arc of fire? An enemy landing would be pure suicide and in a year we could produce 1000s of them. Enough to repel an entire invasion.

[10ebbor10]

On a side note, I do want to say that I've been giving you to little production capacity in the previous turns. 4 factories peacetime was kind off stupid.

[Patrick Hunt]

Np, it's made this so much more challenging then if we'd had a bigger army. Took me hours to come up with the right tactics for this situation. If we'd been better equipped it'd have been to easy.

But next turn I'm doing that mine, next time we get attacked we need a shock factor against landings, need to design an RPG as well for infantry anti armor and get that SMG out to at least 1/4 soldiers.

Hah this should be interesting, an ally who doesn't like us joining us? If it works then our enemy is going to call on his allies and we're in even deeper shit since our ally is the only nation weaker then us. This is gonna get even more fun.

Seriously what are you going to do with 50 unarmed Ravens? They can't fight, they can't be used for supply drops, all they can do is sit on the ground and look stupid.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Made a set of proposals that will allow us to produce 200 ravens per year, without ruining production expansion in other fields

[Patrick Hunt]

.... you should never ever get a job that requires you to be good at management.

You want to do basically what I already proposed and was voted in, but make it twice as complicated. WHY? It makes a tiny difference and will end up using identical supplies 1-2 turns from now anyway. So all your doing is adding more work that we have to do in future and now.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

It's very different to what you proposed because it's allows to expand machinegun factory\artillery factory\small arms factory, while still doubling raven's production

While you aimed at producing 200 more ravens with machine-guns for it and forgeting about anything else

And no it doesn't use the same amount of "supplies", not arming protectors with machine-guns allows us to arm 40 ravens without more factories, switching truck production allows us to build 50 raven frames without more factories

[Patrick Hunt]

I said in future, because in future we then have to expand again to get the guns back for the protections, we have to produce more factories to get the factory back for truck production.

It's so much simpler to just expand on the Raven factory itself now then to mess around doing partial expansions on multiple things that will just require even more of the same expansions in future instead of just a simple expansion on Ravens now keeping everything under one roof for aircraft production.

With new models coming up we'd have to make multiple changes in different factories over and over just to keep production going smoothly rather then just retool a single large complex or half of that complex to fit the new designs.

Just relax our supply situation is going to be perfectly fine. I planned for this in advance. Your strength is in design itself, not in management and tactics. Mine is in management and tactics. Follow somebody elses ideas for once without deciding they're wrong and your right with nothing to support it.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Well, it's pointless, as we are going to no new equipment for land army route.... but

I said in future, because in future we then have to expand again to get the guns back for the protections

Now is more important than the future. We need ravens now, we need machineguns for the land forces now. We don't need AA ships now...

It's so much simpler to just expand on the Raven factory itself

Simpler? Yes. Better? No

With new models coming up we'd have to make multiple changes in different factories over and over

Afraid of little math?

now keeping everything under one roof for aircraft production.

Truth is that unless we produce only fighters, we don't need so much heavy machine-guns produced in the aviation complex, most likely they will spill over and go to other branches, complicating situation
For example torpedo bomber raven mod has no machine-guns in it

Just relax our supply situation is going to be perfectly fine. I planned for this in advance. Your strength is in design itself, not in management and tactics.

Want to see your great decisions in tactics\productions. Last turn we could do much better with navy, should all that efforts we put in ravens went into docks and naval armament, how I suggested we wouldn't be that screwed  navy-wise while enemies better situation in skies wouldn't change strategical situation much

[10ebbor10]

IIRC, the majority of the Naval investments would've gone into the Shark boats, which can't even reach Crow's Isle.

Just saying.

[Patrick Hunt]

The AA ships will come in very useful because the enemy is very likely building it's own bombers and we don't want to end up a step behind them again, having AA ships in place and in production means when they bring in bombers we're already prepared to counter it.
You don't win a war by planning for tomorrow you win by planning for next month and next year.

Simpler and better because we are going to need that expanded facility very soon and having it prepared in advance allows immediate production rather then waiting a year then beginning production. Again, planning months and years ahead not days.

Why perform the math at all when a simpler plan is every bit as effective if not more so?

Keeping all the production under one roof simplifies matters and makes it easier to protect, rather then having say the machinegun factory get bombed then cripple our Raven production as well as everything else. This way it's self contained and will continue to function no matter what is going on in other areas.


Uhm UR how many times do you need to be told? The increased factory for the Ravens had 0 impact on the increases for the navy. The 2 did not clash in any way shape or form. The dock used different workers and was done. The Ravens used different workers and was done. Both produced the maximum they could have in a year.
This has been explained to you multiple times by myself and Ebbor has explained it as well.

[10ebbor10]

Anyway, Rule change

Specializing teams is no longer possible. This has been replaced by the ability to recruit 1 specialized expert every year. Effects are the same, but now you no longer loose your scarce design teams for a year.

[Patrick Hunt]

That sounds great, so rather then all of them being trained to do it we get like an overseer for each team who teaches the team on the job so to speak?