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[3_14159]

A few more questions for formulating a new strategy:
- How much does it cost to update the Sparrow from Mark II to Mark IIA?
- How much land does still remain on Crow's Island? How many men? How many has the enemy? Could you insert a field for Crow's Island only?
- The bomber factory should, I think, produce the unarmed Albatross variant, having produced eleven last year.
- In case there having been combats, how do the Sparrows Mk IIa and Mk III fare?

My basic plan would be the following:
- Achieve air superiority around the island using the Sparrows and Albatrosses for airfield suppression and after-raid damaging
- Bomb the enemy
- Sail near our complete available fleet to Crow's Island, establishing naval superiority [1]
- Land supplies, shell them, bomb them
- Hope.

[1]:Why I believe that this, while risky, should work: We have 17 Protectors and one Glory vs their 6 5000t cruisers and two Glory refits. This is risky, but puts us at a tonnage advantage of about eight thousand tons. In a direct fight, their aircraft carriers should only be able to do one thing well, and that's burning seeing as they're probably both unarmed and unarmoured. That does not count our smaller ships and neither theirs, but I think we've got an advantage even there. Plus, neither does it count the aerial superiority.

@Pat: Nearly the same plan, but I'd use the heavy bombers to improve our odds to achieve aerial superiority, then bomb using the Ospreys and achieve naval. After all, Ospreys have nearly the same bombload, meaning the Albatross is more useful delivering where their invulnerability counts.

[evilcherry]

I personally won't discount their carriers as a effective fighting force on its own. Probably they are just old Cruisers with a deck.

That said their technology to keep such a light vessel stable on water is... almost unbelievable.

[Patrick Hunt]

Well I suggested them for land bombing because we still have infantry on Crow, once we attack the fleet the enemy forces on Crow will rush them and crush them if we don't reinforce them or give them air support.

As far as I see that only leaves 2 option, high altitude bombing of the island to keep the enemy land forces bunkered down. Or once we attack all the subs run the blockade with infantry on board and land as many as they can as close as possible to our 5% to reinforce it with men with SMG, Grenades and LMG so that combined force can assault a defendable position and dig in.
Then the subs turn and join the battle.

We do need to train a special forces though.

[3_14159]

Well I suggested them for land bombing because we still have infantry on Crow, once we attack the fleet the enemy forces on Crow will rush them and crush them if we don't reinforce them or give them air support.

That we have, true. On the other hand, we also have two hundred and fifty Ospreys available, with a combined bombload of 250,000t vs the Albatross' of only 13,750t. Since, additionally, the Albatross' accuracy decreases if it's actually used from the invulnerable altitude, I would rather use it for supporting the air superiority campaign.

For the naval attacks, I would task the Cods to bring in supplies and reinforcements singly, and sail all other available ships to Crow's Island to engage the enemy fleet.

So, the whole plan would look like this:
Day 1: Send off the naval assault force including available Herrings. Send off Cods with supplies, singly.
Launch most of the Sparrows in a bid for air dominance, followed by the Ospreys. Their goal for now is to engage the enemy with much higher numbers, destroy most of the ones patrolling over Crow's Island then cover short bombing missions both against land and sea targets, then retreat again. Repeat that until constant air superiority can be achieved.
Launch Albatross against enemy airfields, to arrive about an hour before the aerial attack. Crater the runway. This allows us to stop them reinforcing their planes. Any additional bombers (I don't know the number of enemy airfields) wait until the survivors land, then bomb them.
Day 2 or 3: The fleet arrives. Combat with the enemy fleet (hopefully, only a smaller number). Do another air superiority mission (including Albatross' airfield bombing), then concentrate all Ospreys on the enemy fleet.
Additionally, the Cods arrive with reinforcements. [Edit: Then reinforce our position and use the artillery support.]

Additionally, use the remaining Ravens for night harassment operations.
If we want to, we can include Merchant Ships with reinforcements in the naval task force. It's just a risk for them to be sunk.
Thoughts on that?

I personally won't discount their carriers as a effective fighting force on its own. Probably they are just old Cruisers with a deck.

That said their technology to keep such a light vessel stable on water is... almost unbelievable.

Oh, it says somewhere in the Moldavian Army overview "4 4000 ton aircraft carrier [Cargoship refit]". So, probably no armour at all and anti aircraft armament at max. Include fuel and bomb loads, and you should have a combination of bomb and torch ready to be lit.

[Patrick Hunt]

Might be better to send all our subs in for the first reinforcement drop.

They should be able to slip through without much trouble if the enemy is moving to counter our fleet and air force then the subs can slip back out to join the fleet afterwards.
It all depends on how many men the cods alone can carry in because we need to land at least 2000-3000 men but more importantly before any of that.

An RPG is essential, we can't land AT guns for this because they use up to much space and are to slow all we can send is infantry and LMG and the enemy has landed tanks so we need an infantry AT weapon or the infantry reinforcements we land are walking into a slaughter field.
If we can get them in with RPG, SMG, Grenades and LMG we can counter attack.
If we have no RPG but have the mines they can storm a fortified position and dig in using the mines to keep enemy armor out of the way for a while.

If we have no Mines or RPG then landing is suicide the enemy tanks will shred whoever we land.

For future as well I'd suggest we use 10 man squads having 2 lmg and 2 rpg per squad as well as 10 pistols 4 smg and 4 rev rifles. ( the 2 rpg guys get rifles as well. )



I've included a proposal for a factory to build mines and rpg the moment we have a design as well as a request for both and a design for both.
One way or another we need to get them completed or a ground attack for us is going to be horrendous.

[3_14159]

Might be better to send all our subs in for the first reinforcement drop.

Oh, the subs should arrive more or less at the same time, I just meant for them not to move in formation to make it more difficult to intercept them.

An RPG is essential, we can't land AT guns for this because they use up to much space and are to slow all we can send is infantry and LMG and the enemy has landed tanks so we need an infantry AT weapon or the infantry reinforcements we land are walking into a slaughter field.
If we can get them in with RPG, SMG, Grenades and LMG we can counter attack.
If we have no RPG but have the mines they can storm a fortified position and dig in using the mines to keep enemy armor out of the way for a while.

The problem is, we've got no time. They're landed at Christmas, which means in seven days they've nearly conquered Crow's Island. So we've got a week at maximum to counterattack. That seems too slow for designing and building new equipment, which is why I haven't included any in the proposal.
Other than that... not to rain on your parade, but I doubt that we will get an RPG from anybody. In the real world, anti-tank rockets were a late WW2 invention, once tank armour got too heavy to penetrate reliably with anti-tank rifles. Designing one, on the other hand, is probably a good idea, just too late for the invasion. We 'just' have to rely on air support against tanks. For that, even the Ravens might suffice, attacking the tanks from above with their 15mm machine guns.

I am assuming, as an addition to the plan, that they had not yet the time and capacity to ship heavy artillery to Crow's Island.

@10ebbor: Another question: Are there further specs available for the enemy tanks?

[Patrick Hunt]

Hmm yeah I guess, well I proposed it anyway and it uses 0 supplies so still worth requesting it, we might get lucky.

I meant all different models of sub rather then just the cod, to allow for larger numbers.

We're gonna have to devote Ravens to ground attack I think, Ospreys are to valuable as torpedo bombers in the coming battle so Ravens with rockets is the best we can spare to play CAS for the ground force.

But looks, every single Sparrow up to take the skies, Osprey wise I suggest using order of priority as follows.
Carriers.
Cruisers.
Raiders.
Then escort ships, we have to knock out the enemies core fleet so first priority is enemy mobile air, the capital ships, then supply raiders.
The escorts are no match for our light ships so knock out the heavies first and that battle is ours. We should focus our bombing on enemy docks when they ain't on the airfield runs to keep the enemy fleet down.

[3_14159]

I meant all different models of sub rather then just the cod, to allow for larger numbers.

The problem here seems to be that we have two classes of subs: The Herring and the Cod. The Herring has no real cargo room (well, it has five tons reserved for sonar and you could unload 30t of torpedoes, but still), while the Cod has a hundred tons of cargo but isn't really good for attacking the enemy. Therefore the division of attacking and transporting.

We're gonna have to devote Ravens to ground attack I think, Ospreys are to valuable as torpedo bombers in the coming battle so Ravens with rockets is the best we can spare to play CAS for the ground force.

The problem is, as I see it, that the Raven is much too vulnerable to the enemy fighters for daylight attacks, which is why I'd use them for night attacks where they should, due to them being smaller and slower, not really detectable.
On the other hand, we need something to support the remaining garrison until they are reinforced. Which means something bombing. For that, the Albatross is either too inaccurate or vulnerable, while the Osprey should work pretty good. Equipping it with bombs will mean it can work both against troops (including tanks) and ships. Equipping it with rockets should probably mean the same, seeing as they are armour-piercing with a comparably long range.

But looks, every single Sparrow up to take the skies, Osprey wise I suggest using order of priority as follows.
Carriers.
Cruisers.
Raiders.
Then escort ships, we have to knock out the enemies core fleet so first priority is enemy mobile air, the capital ships, then supply raiders.
The escorts are no match for our light ships so knock out the heavies first and that battle is ours. We should focus our bombing on enemy docks when they ain't on the airfield runs to keep the enemy fleet down.

I disagree on the carrier priority, and would suggest cruisers to be much more important.
At their current tonnage, each carrier might have four, maybe six planes at maximum. Destroying one of them (or all of them) just means the enemy has to operate those fighters from the mainland, which isn't that much of a problem for them, probably. On the other hand, we know where their fleet is located, meaning we can catch and directly attack their carriers later. In contrast, we are much closer matched on the seas. Destroying even one or two of their cruisers should spell almost certain defeat for them.
Additionally, I am opposed to bombing docks when not bombing airfields. Their fleet is already assembled before Crow's Island and probably will not return to port until the campaign is over. That means bombing their harbours now means no operational decrease of fleet capability, while continuing to bomb their airfields means a continued decrease of their aerial capabilities. After all - I'd rather fight fifty of their fighters twice (due them not being able to launch because of bombed airfields) than a hundred one.
Bombing their harbours has a place, but I would do so in another raid once their fleet is actually back in port bombing the ships with Ospreys and Albatross if they have the accuracy.

[Patrick Hunt]

But knock out the docks and the enemy can't build more ships.
We have a full year thats plenty of time for both we could do 100+ runs in that time.

Will our Ospreys be enough for both anti ship and cas? We're gonna take high losses on them if they're doing both jobs.

With air superiority the Ravens are safe enough for day attacks and the enemy on Crow has far less AA then the enemy fleet.
If anything the Ravens are safer on hitting crow and they have no Radio or anything so night raids with them is going to be pretty futile other then random luck.

The Osprey is better suited to night runs where it can use Radio to co-ordinate.

I see the enemy carriers as mobile refueling posts, remove them and we force the enemy to return home to refuel.
Refueling closer was a big edge for us so letting the enemy have it puts us at a disadvantage.
The enemies low numbet of carriers can be removed in a single assault if we focus on them as well.
So it uses a short space of time for a big effect, plus making them go home while were bombing the enemy airfields is good for us, more planes on the ground for us to destroy.

[Funk]

Do we have Parachutes? if so then the bomb bays of the Albatros's should be used to drop Paratroopers down on the enemy mainland.
From there they can attack factory, railways, airfields and so on.
A Cod Submarine just off shore can send a force of marines to size a beach to with draw the raiders from.
Im not sure if our torpedo boats have the space to carry the raiders away, and they lack the stealth of the cod which can hide with only its periscope in view.

[Aseaheru]

The main problem with the cods is that they cant stand hits worth a dabm. I would try to have them supply the people at night, covered by bombing attacks on our "Friends".

[Patrick Hunt]

With what? Our only bombs are grenades.
I tried to get bigger but nobody voted for it so we have nothing to blow enemy factories up with.

[3_14159]

@Pat: I think there's a small misunderstanding here. The plan I've outlined covers the time from now until we've established naval superiority and reinforced the garrison. After that, by all means, bomb the docks (though I'd rather bomb the aircraft production facilities).

Yes, the Ospreys should do both jobs, with the priority until the fleet arrives on doing anti-ground attacks and the occasional anti-sea attack of opportunity. Shortly before the fleet arrives, switch to attacking the enemy fleet almost exclusively.

Using the Ravens at day requires complete air superiority, yes. If we can gain that fast, by all means use them. If we cannot, night harassment.

On the carriers, I agree with the assessment. During the initial strikes, I believe suppressing the enemy airfields and reducing their naval advantage has a higher priority, with striking and sinking the carriers afterwards.

@Funk: We do have parachutes, but they're heavy and unreliably according to ebbor (though I can't find the post now). I'd still believe this to be less effective than bombing.

[LordSlowpoke]

actually if we managed to make the parachutes less horrible and gave the parachuters automatic pistols, some explosives and saboteur training i'd see them as a very viable way to wreck havoc on the enemy's logistics as our bombing, while currently safe, is inaccurate as all hell (and i bet the enemy's developing countermeasures right now)

[Patrick Hunt]

Establishing superiority and beating the fleet is easier with the carriers gone.

Remove them and our enemies smaller air force has to go home to refuel and get more torpedos.

That will save us a lot of losses in the battle to gain superiority otherwise they have a constant stream of fresh bombers while ours hit in waves and need hours togo home to get more bombs then hours more to come back.

The whole battle is easier if we take away the enemies ability to refuel closer then us.

Besides we have around 250 Ospreys, we can have 100 hit the carriers 150 hit the the cruisers for the first run.

Still plenty of torpedos on both to make the first blow a serious 1 and badly damage both groups before they reinforce the Sparrows to clean up.