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[Patrick Hunt]

Not really, we couldn't have done it effectively until now anyway.

But doesn't really matter we'll probably build a proper bomber after this.

[3_14159]

@evilcherry: I'm (as one of the rocket fans) against something Me-163-similar. They're the classical interceptor when we haven't even seen strategic bombers, quite ineffective in their role and we haven't got experience with rockets.

@Bombing discussion: The ability to take bombs is useful even for a pure fighter. Aside from the ability to mount droptanks should we develop them on there, it allows us to support ground attacks once we've achieved air superiority.
See, for example, this turn's invasion: We had air superiority (then lost it by being pushed back). With air superiority, the only thing that could've been done was strafing using MGs. That wouldn't have helped against the ships. Contrary, if the Raven had had the ability for even a modest bomb load, that would have forced the enemy to operate further outside, and thereby limited their artillery capacity.
And yes, the Raven's going to be obsolete - but not due to being a biwing. It's going to be obsolete due to limited speed and armour. This relegates it to secondary roles, that is not fighting with their fighters. What remains is only recon and ground attack, for which it is only equipped with two 15mm MGs. The same procedure will happen with every one of our planes, and did so in real life, too. For example, the Hurricane was relegated to ground-attacks as the Hurribomber, using bombs and cannons.

The problem is, you need a pretty huge number of fighters to achieve air superiority. Once they've achieved it, they only have to fight against a smaller number, and therefore are not needed any more. Giving them ground attack ability keeps them useful. Let's say, for example, that each of us has a hundred planes, and ours are better by a factor of 2-1. This means after achieving complete air superiority, we've got fifty left - of which we need maybe ten or twenty to continue the air superiority (intercept newly built ones.)

Oh, and - what type of bomber after this? From the classical roles, you have close air support (dive bombers, attack aircraft), tactical bombing using longer-ranged (normally two-engined) bombers for interdiction, and strategic bombings (normally using four-engined monstrosities). Which of them do you want?

[evilcherry]

@Rocketry: I still think we need something solely to please those rocketheads. I'm never a big fan of them but I guess something might be needed to logroll other more crucial designs. Attack rocket is nice but I guess people wanted something... Exotic.

@Bomber: The Osprey is more accurately a Close air support, and I don't see much tactical bombing around once they are driven from the Island. So, for me, it must be strategic bombing.

[Patrick Hunt]

All we can really do short term is start bombing the outer defenses of the enemies mainland. We don't have the numbers to risk going deeper inland against them where AA will be heavier.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Do we need to plan bombing campaigns? All we need to do is to destroy enemy navy and that will bring peace

[Patrick Hunt]

We don't just want peace though UR.

We want them to ask us for peace, if we drive them off then ask for peace it makes us look weak.
We have to end a war in a way that makes it clear to every other nation in the area that we won, a couple of bombing campaigns will be enough to force them to ask us for peace and allow us to push them for good terms.

At the very least they are going to pay to transport all of our people from the islands they took to crow and pay compensation to us for the people we lost.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

We will not ask for peace, we will demand it. Together with reparations (I'd prefer to take it in form of their survivng ships, quite typical. At least Glory cruisers are OUR cruisers ) For that we need to win the seas, and cut their shippings

Developing strategical bombing force is very cost consuming and resources can be spent better. Using Ospreys for anything but CAS isn't a right way to it

[Patrick Hunt]

Demanding peace is still the same, it tells the world we couldn't handle the fight. We can't seek peace ourselves we have to force our enemy to come to us for it.

A bombing campaign is the best way for us to force them to surrender quickly, maybe blockade them like they did to us as well.

And please be real, if you start making demands for things like warships they're gonna tell you to stuff it and keep fighting until they're all dead because if they give away they're fleet then they're not gonna survive a year anyway every other nation within 500 miles is going to invade them.

[evilcherry]

I had a feeling that if they continue to throw away another or two cruisers, and if they still have no advantage in the aerial side, they would want peace.

To achieve this we must tell their people that it is their monarchist government which brought war in the first place. Incite a proletarian revolution perhaps.

I would personally called for them to join Comintern and throw away their monarchist government for peace. We don't need to ask for it, we need to make sure there is no compromise.

[Patrick Hunt]

I doubt we're going to start a revolution, but we can probably convince them to come to us for peace. If forcing them back fails then we just bomb the docks and blockade them until they surrender.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

For example, the Hurricane was relegated to ground-attacks as the Hurribomber, using bombs and cannons.

One important thing to notice, existing hurricanes weren't converted to ground bombers, (instead they were removed from service\placed in reserve\moved to secondary theaters\used in training)  it's new hurricanes were produced as ground attack aircrafts from the start.

In fact that's a reason why I want to produce ravens(T) on ravens factory and later switch it all to raven(T)
Of cause I suspect that 10ebbor10 may ignore retooling problems from one model to another and probably switching all ravens production to brand new aircraft is as easy as changing to another Raven variant

[3_14159]

No enemy mainland bombing campaigns is my opinion.

Why? Well, our goal is for them to surrender.
To do that, we have to destroy their offensive capabilities, and make it clear their defensive ones can't hold up.

To do the former, we have to destroy most of their navy and airforce.
To do the latter, we have to, additionally, either invade or do a huge bombing campaign.

Since the former is easier to achieve, necessary for the latter and keeps us safe, it has to be our main priority. This means we have to attack their fleet and achieve air superiority, but does not require an extensive bombing campaign over the enemy mainland.
Remember, even with a new 2400pts factory complex, we only can produce either 400 Raven Ts or 120 Ospreys.
Additionally, operating over enemy territory by definition means more losses (through AA) and less combat effectiveness (as you have to get there). For example, over Moldavia, our Ravens only have about ten minutes of combat time - the same plane would have a few hours over our own.
My main plan would be the following:
This turn: Achieve naval and air superiority
Next turn (and possibly the one after): Prepare invasion
Afterwards: Invade. No strategic bombings but close air supports.

I am reluctant to use strategic bombings simply due to the cost. We can get multirole planes for about 5-1, and that leaves industry standing which we can later... uhm... give to the people. Of course, if we could see us not attacking for years, such a campaign is necessary to not turn it into a game of outproduction.

A request for peace is not a sign of weakness, that depends on the terms. I would at least propose repossession of our islands and reparations in form of both warships and factories plus (important) the surrender of our old monarchs to be tried by the people. Though the question is, I believe, not for us and I'd leave them to the government and therefore ebbor.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

My vision
This turn: Achieve naval and air superiority
Next turn: Destroy\cripple most of their navy and demand peace

[Patrick Hunt]

Why the islands? They hold no strategic or material value for us of any kind so defending them is just a waste of troops that could be better used closer to home. It'd make much more sense for us to just pull our people off the islands and relocate them then to tie down massive numbers of ships and planes to defend them properly.

At present A is winning which relates to 1800 points for Osprey and 600 for the Raven T.
So 50 Ravens and 90 Osprey. Enough for coastal bombing at the very least which avoids the vast majority of the AA and is highly effective given that they seem to be a naval power.
So hitting there ships and docks will force them to surrender if they refuse to after this turn.

But we should really forget those islands they're not worth the resource it would require to protect them.

We'd be better off just taking money and raw materials rather then ships themselves, asking for ships is going to make them less likely then just asking for money and money can be used for a much bigger variety of things.
The mocharcs though I agree completely.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Note this:

  With the drawn  out war becoming increasingly unpopular in Moldavia, they decide to commence an assault.

I don't think that their public is more eager to continue war to bring back to power some monarchs, after loosing several thousands of man (2000 infantry, crews of cruisers, pilots)
Hell, we may even push for peace this turn if we'll sink few more cruisers. I'll be content with return of all glory cruisers\revolutionary torpedo boats, turning in our monarchs for execution and additional reparations either in form of their 5000 ton cruisers or factory equipment

I'd like to get ships, as good sized navy will make us stronger. And it's our ships stolen from us

Really dislike the voted proportion of Ospreys and Ravens, Ravens look more cost effective to hunt cruisers.... 3.3 torpedos vs 2 torpedos after all