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Author Topic: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People  (Read 69531 times)

3_14159

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #165 on: September 26, 2013, 04:33:53 pm »

Right, that looks pretty good.
We need two things for now, that is naval and air superiority.
For the former, I'd suggest producing as many Protectors and Sharks as possible, combined with an increase in dockyard size.
For the second, get the factory producing ravens!

As for traits to pick... I can see three ways: Either picking Easily maneuverable, aerodynamic and easy to pilot, which would turn it into a hellishly maneuverable fighter - or pick aerodynamic, silent and fuel efficient, and you'll get an evil harassment plane.
Of course, increased service ceiling is a good pick, too. They're all pretty good.
Aerodynamic's a must, though. Short fields (that means basically fields or streets) and can get slower and slower - that's the dream.

Edit: @AseaHeru: I believe that in order to actually gain a functioning rocket or rocket engine, you need a design proposal, which abstracts the exact motor anyways. Ebbor said so already.
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Aseaheru

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #166 on: September 26, 2013, 04:35:52 pm »

I am trying to get a engine bell... Ah well. Here we go.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #167 on: September 26, 2013, 04:38:00 pm »

I'd go cheap, easy to pilot, resilent. To win by numbers. Make many, field many, lose less

Also, easy to pilot and cheap means that letter we may convert this biplanes to training aircrafts\night attack biplanes for unexperienced pilots like Soviet U-2

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Aseaheru

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #168 on: September 26, 2013, 04:38:48 pm »

I would go for easy to pilot, strong and easily maneuverable.
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Patrick Hunt

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #169 on: September 26, 2013, 04:39:54 pm »

Well we need ceiling and stealth. Our only edge is going to be surprise in those fights. We won't have numbers or experience on our side so we need that edge. Resilience or Aerodynamic works both increase survival odds in the fight itself.

Both work for a bomber as well, strap a torpedo to the bottom then get high, combine ceiling and stealth and you can easily get past the enemies air curtain then drop in behind it to let the torpedos go and then head up agains before it can turn around to engage.
It then also enables us to launch our own bombing offensives on the enemy with lower costs to our own men.

We won't be able to produce enough to win by numbers we're only just starting to produce them they already have an airforce and are producing. We need an advantage, not cannon fodder and numbers do not win fights in the air, Germanys always had superior numbers in Britain, Britain won. Russia always had superior numbers in Russia, the Germans kicked them all over the skies.

We need quality to win not quantity.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 04:42:17 pm by Patrick Hunt »
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Aseaheru

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #170 on: September 26, 2013, 04:44:56 pm »

Germany lost in England because they went and did the blitz a week before they would have won.
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Patrick Hunt

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #171 on: September 26, 2013, 04:49:05 pm »

And because superior quality enabled them to hold off and punish the Germans far more then they expected.

3_1 does your list mean you pick the bottom 3 traits on it?
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3_14159

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #172 on: September 26, 2013, 04:52:13 pm »

Yes and no - ceiling is practical, yes, just like maneuverable and easier to pilot. Silent, however, is not. You're not going to hear the planes when you're in combat (unless there are at least several dozen heavy bombers). If you can hear them, you can see them.

The traits:
Increased speed:               Not that useful, I believe. Once we get monowing designs they're going to be faster anyway
Cheap:                             Advantages in numbers.
Easy to pilot:                    Advantages in numbers
Easily maneuverable:        Practical for dogfights
Increased service ceiling:  Practical for zoom and boom
Fuel efficient:                   Always good. More range, less maintenance cost
Aerodynamic:                   Short fields and slow is great!
Silent:                             For night-attacks only, but then can be pretty good for sneaking low over ground
Enlarged ammunition drums:    More dakka   
Resilient:                         Useful both in dogfights and to lose less planes: More numbers

Basically, there are two tactics in aerial combat: Turn and burn / zoom and boom, colloquially.
The first one requires you to be more maneuverable. You turn faster than the enemy, and therefore are quicker behind him. The slower, the better for you. This means maneuverable, easy to pilot and aerodynamic.
The second one means you dive as quickly as possible, have a few moments to fill the other plane with as much lead as possible, then run away again. Speed advantage means the other can't pursue. This means increased service ceiling, and increased speed.
Additionally, several others develop other qualities, but we've got to decide on one of them. I'd take maneuverability, because, again, biplanes are more maneuverable but slower than the monoplanes that will soon come.

Edit: Nope, it means I've only picked aerodynamic only for now.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 04:58:08 pm by 3_14159 »
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Patrick Hunt

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #173 on: September 26, 2013, 04:57:45 pm »

Hmmm ok then I see 4 traits worth taking.

Resilient, Aerodynamic, Maneuverable, More ammo.

Any combination of them gives you an amazing dog fighting plane and I always support quality over quantity, easy to pilot could be I guess since it makes it simpler to train pilots but I doubt that will be a problem.


« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 05:00:31 pm by Patrick Hunt »
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Vengeance is mine saith the Lord but this morning. He's going to fucking well have to share.

Is she worth it, would you burn the city to save her? For her, I'd burn the world.

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #174 on: September 26, 2013, 06:14:07 pm »

I think that we need to get $$$ for the government, and beg them to buy us ships... even old ones can benefit us a lot, especially  if we'll refit them
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Patrick Hunt

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #175 on: September 26, 2013, 06:20:28 pm »

Could be tricky during war. Neutral parties won't wanna be seen supplying us and our only friend is the weakest nation around.

Plus we have nothing to sell, we can't sell the plane it's our best military weapon, we can't sell the new ship because it's our main line of defense, we have a new pistol but that won't bring in enough money.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 06:42:26 pm by Patrick Hunt »
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Caine's law.
And so, here at the end of days, you are as you’ve always been. Willing to die. Not willing to quit.

Vengeance is mine saith the Lord but this morning. He's going to fucking well have to share.

Is she worth it, would you burn the city to save her? For her, I'd burn the world.

evilcherry

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #176 on: September 26, 2013, 08:33:39 pm »

actually I feel strange that Comintern isn't helping us around.

Taricus

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #177 on: September 26, 2013, 09:09:26 pm »

Either way, we can sell the crow planes, the improvements are on the Raven.

And I would say that Aerodynamic, Manoeuvrable and Easy to pilot are what we want on this. The latter can make this a perfect craft alone due to the fact it can serve as the perfect training aircraft long after it's superseded by enclosed monowing designs.

Manoeuvrable goes hand in hand with easy to pilot, an aircraft with both would be extremely easy to fly as such that even a green pilot could match an enemy veteran.

Aerodynamic doesn't make itself clear at first, until you realise that we CAN make a carrier and have an aircraft that can actually use it, though storing the aircraft may be the bigger problem there
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Patrick Hunt

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #178 on: September 26, 2013, 09:21:30 pm »

We're not gonna have an aircraft carrier any time soon, we'll have new monowing models of plane before we have that so taking a trait that will never see use for that plane is a little pointless.
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Caine's law.
And so, here at the end of days, you are as you’ve always been. Willing to die. Not willing to quit.

Vengeance is mine saith the Lord but this morning. He's going to fucking well have to share.

Is she worth it, would you burn the city to save her? For her, I'd burn the world.

Taricus

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Re: [Discussion] The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #179 on: September 26, 2013, 09:35:24 pm »

Even then, the theoretical experience and knowledge can make designing future aircraft with those specifications in mind much easier.
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