Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Patrick Hunt]

Will need to retrofit then.

I'm not sure 5inch is reasonable but I don't know muhc about armored vehicles actual armor but guaranteed I'm adding side armor very close to the front armor so probably 4 inches slopped. An APC ain't must use if the people inside get killed because the 2 largest portions of it have weak armor. Plus with a MG or AA gun on it that thing is full of ammo, if a round gets into that ammo every soldier within 100 feet is gonna be shredded when it goes off.

I'm going duel engine right away because armor and a big gun is damned heavy and it needs some speed, so duel engines is a must.
Rear opening hatch obviously.
Roof hatch in the middle of a rotating platform with the gun mounted onto it for the gunner to use it but I'll leave it at a platofmr for now without a gun so we can just fit whatever we want. Probably some with light cannons, some with heavy MG and a few small forces for mobile AA.
Armor all around the outside of the platform forming a box around the gunner for protection.
Probably only carrying 4 people leaving space for plenty of ammo so it doesn't run out to fast on all but the pure trop carrier variants.

[Aseaheru]

The design was meant mostly for transport. Feel like going and makeing a variant for it on the main thread?

As for the gun, it was a single heavy MG...

[Patrick Hunt]

I'll do it in the next turn, this turn is already done so it can wait.

This version is closer to an IFV then an APC, but same base design of a large armored vehicle.

[3_14159]

To make it short, there are several problems I see with this:
- Wheeled: Well, there are advantages to both wheeled, tracked and a combination thereof. Wheeled means better on-road performance, tracked better off-road. Small preference to half-tracked or so, to provide better off-road performance. I think that's more important in combat.
- Open turret: Does it rotate with the gun (and provide protection to the gunner)? It could be a bit too heavy.
- Armour: My main problem. You want ca. 9cm around, with half that bottom and fifteen front. That's... not going to happen. That vehicle would heavier armoured than a Sherman tank. I would forecast problems with both speed and suspension (that is, reliability). That is quite problematic.

How about this:
Take the Project 2206 truck engine (one should be far, far enough), and build an armoured vehicle from it. Driver's compartment armoured 1.5cm, passenger 0.5. Mount a Project 2202 15mm machine gun on it, with the gunner standing in the driver's compartment. Possibly armour ahead.
Basically, make it quick and armoured enough to survive small arms fire, and armed enough to provide fire power to infantry they wouldn't otherwise have. Do not make a tank out of it.

To sum up: Don't make an infantry fighting vehicle if we haven't even got an armoured car, much less a tank ;-)

[10ebbor10]

I have a feeling I screwded up the numbers on that engine.

To be fair, you did max out every die involved in designing it.

[Patrick Hunt]

I'll lighten armor to something more fitting but I'm keeping the base design.

This is an armored car basically, just with variable weapon so I can mount a cannon, MG or AA gun on top. The car itself is a base platform to be used for multiple different loadouts.
The gunners armor is light, probably only about 1-2 cm at most just enough to protect against infantry weapons, should be light enough to function I think but it needs some armor or the gunner is horribly exposed.
I'm all good with a halftrack design.

I'm gonna leave out the armament entirely and just build the car then we can fit guns when it goes into production, rather then designing it with a specific gun in mind.

[Aseaheru]

Allright, I am OK with that. And my idea for a turret was basically a hole with a ring around it that the gun goes on. If you look at images of WWII era half tracks you can see what I mean. I also advise agenst half tracks because the drive trains on those are supposedly complicated as can be.

[Patrick Hunt]

If it fails the first turn I can simplify it afterwards but if it works it's perfect.

Thats my idea as well except I'm including an armored ring on the platform to protect the gunner or any idiot with a pistol and a good eye can kill him.

[Aseaheru]

The design has been up for three turns now...

And we could always gibe the gunner some personal armor. Excuse me while I look for a image...

[3_14159]

Allright, I am OK with that. And my idea for a turret was basically a hole with a ring around it that the gun goes on. If you look at images of WWII era half tracks you can see what I mean. I also advise agenst half tracks because the drive trains on those are supposedly complicated as can be.

Ah, I see. I understood it a bit different - similar to the Ostwind Flakpanzer instead of the halftracks as you meant it. And yes, in that case I'd like that very well - as a non-half-track, too, and I'll support that as soon as the in my opinion more important projects (plane and tank, at least) are finished.

@PatrickHunt:
I'm having some difficulties classifying your approach. I am operating with the following classifications:
- Tank: Mounts heavy armour and an anti-armour cannon plus several MGs. Mostly for anti-tank. An example would be the Sherman.
- Infantry support tank: Specialization of the above, mounts a shorter cannon for anti-fortification/anti-infantry usage. An example would be early models of the Panzer IV.
- Armoured car: Light armour, light armament, fast. Mostly for scouting. An example would be the greyhound.
- Armoured transport (usually called a half-track as it usually has been one): Lightly armoured, lightly armed, place for about a dozen infantry. See the M3 halftrack.
- Infantry fighting vehicle: Armoured like a tank, lighter armed (need anti-tank rockets) and with infantry capacity; an invention of the cold war. See the BMP-1 as example.

As far as I can see it, your vehicle should be: Heavily armoured (for the time), variable armament (from a cannon to MGs) - but only four people inside?
I'd analyze it as too lightly armed for tank, too slow for armoured car, too few capacity for armoured transport and IFV. I believe it is quite unlikely to be cost efficient or even effective.

I have a feeling I screwded up the numbers on that engine.

To be fair, you did max out every die involved in designing it.

That engine is awesome! Good enough to power our early tanks, therefore simplifying logistics, reliable, fuel efficient... That's the very definition of nailing every. single. die.

[Patrick Hunt]

Can scrap passengers entirely thats not really my design anyway was just based off the APC but I'm not using that design now anyway.

So just something like medium to heavy armor with variable armament. Predominantly I want it as an armored vehicle to mount weapons on, nothing as heavy as a tank only AA guns, MG or a light cannon. ))

[Aseaheru]

Perhaps someting like one of these?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADGZ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leichter_Panzersp%C3%A4hwagen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Carrier

Although my initial idea was more like this, but with wheels instead of tracks, the driver enclosed and a turret.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyd_Carrier

[Patrick Hunt]

The Panzer is a very close fit to my initial idea.

I'll try to make it halftrack but thats no big deal if it proves to hard. But the flatbed on the back is perfect to just extend the armored cabin over and mount the guns ontop of to make it more useful for infantry battle.

Flatbed is fine for AA but in an infantry battle it's horrible.

[3_14159]

Ah, I see. Thank you for the explanation, I think I got it now.

Basically - armoured platform for variable weapons.
Might I suggest taking an armoured car - like the personnel carrier - for now, with then-obsolete tanks modified for that role once they're, well, obsolete?
Basically, as I see it, the APC can mount an MG and transport infantry, too. The light cannon's a bit more difficult, but a tank could be used for that. And, lastly, the anti-air vehicle would suffice with splitter-proof armour (as it usually should not be used directly on the front lines, anyway) for now.
So, to sum up, we need three different classes of vehicles: Tanks, personnel carriers, and 'special vehicles' like anti-air ones or self-propelled artillery. Tank destroyers, possibly.
The personnel carriers will not be obsolete that fast - they cannot survive tanks, anyway, and don't need to be upgraded with them. So, tanks need to be upgraded fairly frequently. Old, obsolete tanks form the new special vehicles by refitting them.

Comparing your proposed vehicle with the APC, it's probably similar to compare the Sdkfz 222 Aseaheru posted with the Sdkfz 251 - similarly armed, similarly armoured and can be used with different weapons - like the standard MG, a mortar, a 75mm cannon or a small anti-aircraft one. (Not all at once, though.)

The Panzer is a very close fit to my initial idea.

I'll try to make it halftrack but thats no big deal if it proves to hard. But the flatbed on the back is perfect to just extend the armored cabin over and mount the guns ontop of to make it more useful for infantry battle.

Flatbed is fine for AA but in an infantry battle it's horrible.

Oh, it's no panzer, it's a Panzerspähwagen - basically armoured recon vehicle. There's a difference there
But yes, that's basically what I meant with my text above.

[Patrick Hunt]

That fits fine for what I had in mind and also will be great for mobile artillery as well thanks.