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[Patrick Hunt]

Fine, I'll stop giving opinions. Bye.

[Aseaheru]

Opinions are fine. As long as they are based off facts.

[Funk]

I DID mention we'd still need a navy Funk, along with an airforce.

i know we do.
if we build a line of fortresses and force them to do landings then it is good for us we will have a better supply line and be placed to have good counter attack. 

Im sure there are some pass in the mountains that can be used, and this is 1923 not the building of the pyramids and how big do we need our fortresses to be?
Im thinking simple concrete bunkers with artillery and MGs.

[Aseaheru]

And eventually SAMs, radar and helis.

and perhaps tunnels linking them.

[Patrick Hunt]

Ok facts.

You have no means of supply. meaning your going to need a massive amount of man power and supplies which will come at huge cost to build said supply lines.
You need to design a new vehicle thats designed for cold weather and travelling up a mountain because a basic truck ain't gonna make it up that sort of incline, a 4x4 would struggle with that and we don't have anything like that at the moment.
You then need massive man power and money to build a line of fortresses that extends along our entire nation.
You then need to design and produce massive numbers of winter equipment for soldiers abd recruit a huge number of soldiers to man said fortresses otherwise you leave the army badly under manned.
You then need to design an efficient method of keeping every one of those fortresses and bunkers warm that won't over burden the supply lines once you've managed to build it.

And don't forget your looking at multiple years at best just to build it while the nation on the other side will know about it by the end of month 1 and become very angry very quickly likely resulting in either complete loss of trade at best or a premptive strike at worst.
Your placing huge guns and an army in range of there land, you think they're gonna sit back and let you do it?

We don't have the men or materials to fight that war.

And all this is hoping that every single one of those things goes off without a hitch, which is very unlikely.

Your going to need a lot more then a simple bunker if you want it to work, it'd need to be huge just to store all the munitions, food, other supplies, space for enough men to sleep to man all of that.

[Aseaheru]

Allright, we dont know the slope of the mountans.
We can just modify the trucks, and we dont know how cold it is.
How many forts and how large are needed? For now we probably just need four or so, two for each major pass.
Winter equip is eventual anyways, and what we have will probally work anyways.
Keeping them warm is lets see... 1.)burning trash.  2.)burning other things. 3.)body heat.
How many people do you think we are gonna shove there? Pass defense and customs is all that is wanted now.
And you probably only will need 20 or so people per bunker. Wont have to store that mutch. A weeks worth of food and drink, 5000 or so rounds to a gun... All that would take about 30m cubed, not counting water. Housing is another 25m cubed, and thats about it.

[Patrick Hunt]

That few men lol? That won't stop any half decent attack it won't even slow it down. If they throw a full assault at those mountains it'll wash straight over them if you've only got 25 men. Thats 1-2 artillery 1-2 AA and a couple MG and thats basically all you've got. Not even close to enough.

One other factor I forgot.

Our nation is already restricting us building factories because we're not at war, why are they going to agree to something thats far more costly and likely to cause massive political problems?

Not to mention the passes only apply to vehicles, infantry will just walk around. To defend those mountains effectively your going to need thousands of bunkers to cover every pass over or they're just gonna find a way to go around the defenses.

[Aseaheru]

One MG can keep troops from going ANYWHERE. As for tanks, thats what the arty is for.
We dont need any new factories, we just need about 8mgs and 4 arty pieces for now anyways.
And yes, passes apply to foot troops.

[Patrick Hunt]

As does every part of the mountain that a man can walk over. Your looking at hundreds of crossing points if not thousands. 4 bunkers ain't gonna be any problem at all when they walk around and attack it from behind. If your determined to build this defensive line at least do it right. Blocking 4 major passes but leaving hundreds of smaller ones open is totally pointless. You either have to cover all of them or none of them.

One MG will last as long as the gunner is alive and sooner or later somebody is gonna get a grenade in or get a lucky shot.
MG nests in much higher numbers then that were over run during ww2.

Still waiting to hear why our masters are going to allow us to build a diplomatic incident and cause massive tension with the nation on the other side of the border as well. We can suggest it but the political fallout would be massive.

[Funk]

Right now we need a simple cable railway to pull men and supply up the mountains.
Send up some lumber and they can build huts to keep warm in.

Later in pace time more men can be sent to build large forts useing the cable railways to pull up large guns and supplys.

Large fort should have built-in heating, simply running hot water pipes in the walls should do it and as a bonus they can work as sprinklers.

Weapon wise a few mortars and a few large howitzers should stop large groups.
Machinegun Landmines and Razerwire should cheaply guard the bunker from attack.
Small groups will get past with stealth but that just happens no matter what.

[Patrick Hunt]

At the moment it ain't small groups.

If we're going to do this we have to defend every possible pass we can find or whole infantry divisions will march straight around the bunkers.

[Aseaheru]

Where we not told that there are only two passes?

And if they walk across, let them. They wont be able to have tanks or anything, and there walking around passes will help us.

As for a cable car, just build a railway through the passes. There is a conventional railway design that allows something like 20% grades, involving 3ed rails in places and special gail things. As we only really need bunkers in the big passes for now that should be fine.

And Pat, passes are called passes for a reason. Although you can send an army around you cant send things with them. Even Hannibal needed passes.

For the rails I am gonna find a link now.

[Aseaheru]

Here we go, the fell system. To make it clear, this is mostly just normal railway things, with the extra rail where needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_railway#Fell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fell_mountain_railway_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Cenis_Pass_Railway

[evilcherry]

1. Am thinking something similar to the Dolomites.
2. By all means we need mountain training and adaptation of our organization to defend the mountains anyway. For patriotic or strategic reasons. The morale loss from the enemy terrorizing people in the mountainous region is bad enough, and just ask yourself how hard it is to root out resistance forces between Pakistan and Afghanistan. We should never let them dig in, or at least never better than ourselves.
3. Cable railways for major supply points, and via ferrata/tunneling for the rest. Actually, in hindsight, training is more important.
4. We need to defend every major pass that significant vehicles (defined as larger than a passenger car) can go through. There is no shirking from that. Period. Even we might leave out the occasional Bicycle or Motorbike inclusion, without backup they are not going to do too much. But on the other hand, if a major pass is broken through, and once they dug in and maintained a supply line, we will be in big trouble.

[3_14159]

Let me explain, shortly, why I believe a mountain defence by fixed defences to be both effective and not necessary right now.

Basically, you can classify mountaineous terrain in three different types: Passes, human-traversable and steep faces, in reversed order of ease of defensibility.
Steep faces are difficult, but possible, to climb. They necessitate, however, taking only a few things with you. This is pretty impractical for sustained military operations and can therefore only be used to facilitate attacks on the other two types. Patrols are the easiest way to check them - it should be pretty easy to shoot someone who's climbing and doesn't shoot back.
Human-traversable terrain looks like a hill or so, that is a fairly steep incline and maybe a few parts where you've got to use your hands. They're easier to traverse, possibly with mules, but you can't take heavy gear with you. Here, a few heftier firefights might break out, but again, if they climb down they'll be crushed (due to no supplies), if they don't, they have no supplies.
Now, passes. They are the least common territory, and facilitate the transport of heavy gear. Railways go through there, just as roads. Such a road (and railroad) is usually a serpentine, with mountain to one side and an abyss on the other. Here, fixed defences will be necessary and practical. A single machine gun bunker should be able to suppress hundreds of enemies, as they probably lack cover (you need a second however to cover reloading and barrel changing). And, you need to secure the bunkers against nearby enemies infiltrated via one of the other ways.

There is one problem with this, though: The country across the mountains is neutral. I believe we have a more pressing concern to address.

On a side note, anyone knows a good diceroller that can roll large groups of dice at once. The wizard of the coast one seems broken. It has a tendency to give streaks. Ie, either lot's of flaws, or lot's of succeses.

If you want to, I can write you one. Give me a bit more details (like what types of dice, how detailed you want the results), and wait a bit.