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[freeformschooler]

It's every article I read, every professional I talk to, and every family member I meet. "You're 19 and you don't know how to...

Speak spanish
Throw a horseshoe
Cut down a tree (okay I can do small trees)
Tell me where minnesota is
Drive a stick shift
Draw the right and proper way
Whistle
Snap your fingers
Carry a tune
Skateboard
Play football well
Flirt like other people do
Do that fancy bridge shuffle?

You're worthless. The world is a meritocracy and you've squandered your time doing things that made you happy.  You could have had six pack abs and enough skill for a five figure job, but instead you only have a few real friends. You should have developed X skills to mastery because now you are an adult and potential is useless. Now you are an adult and you are useless."

The fun side effect of this is I have spent the last few years stressing myself sick over my skills. I know how to do tons of things but whoops the time I spent learning them could have been better used making new friends and going to events and learning about other fields that are important like fixing a car. If only I had thought to learn something worthwhile and become very good at it I would have another job and a girlfriend and more friends and be happier!

That last part is what's confusing me. This constant push to make up for the nerdiness of my teenage years isn't making me happy.  It will pay off I am told. Everyone else can do these things. But is this the key to happiness?

Personally, it seems like it's the key to sitting with my face over the toilet waiting to vomit the stress out and get back to learning spanish.

[QuakeIV]

That sounds stressing.  It seems like you are being given a lot of contradictory input from a lot of different people.

If you have a plan to make enough to survive while still having time to do whatever it is you planned on doing with your life (usually not exclusively work) then I'd ignore the fuckers and carry on like a boss. 

Otherwise I would devise such a plan, then ignore the fuckers and carry on like a boss.

Build some flexibility in though, you never know if you want to start doing something different with your spare time.

[acetech09]

edit: ninja'd by Quake w/ basically the same advice.

*snip*

This might sound blunt, but screw them and their thoughts. You have absolutely 0 valid reasons to feel pressured by what they say*. I had similar problems, often worrying about what other people think, pressures, etc.. But my life changed the moment I realized that it. doesn't. matter. Unless you are in some weird situation, their thoughts shouldn't physically affect you if you don't let them. The doesn't really care about anything anymore attribute isn't just useful in DF.

~

*This is assuming that what you are doing is not completely self-destructive. As long as you have a clue what you're doing, and have it managed, you're fine. And if you don't, do that and then you're fine.

[freeformschooler]

@acetech and quake

I am extremely hesitant to take that good-sounding "fuck the world" advice because every stressful thing I have been told re: the meritocracy of the world has, no pun intended, some merit.

For example: I do not understand competitive team sports. They have never been fun to play no matter how many times I've tried. Basketball, volleyball, baseball, even ultimate frisbee. It seems most people have inside of them a fundamental desire to be a part of a team and triumph over teams. I do not have that. I was literally born without it. As a result, I can only connect with a lot of people in my area on a superficial level because there isn't much to do locally except hike, eat and play sports. I've resorted to totally fake and not-real Internet Friendships I shouldn't have because they're not real friends like mean come on geez dude in place of "real" friends because every "real" "friend" I've made has had exciting primary interests like "sex," "parties," "sports" and other things I just don't fucking care about, at least right now.

"Make new friends or you won't be able to X! Oh, you have trouble making new friends? It's probably because blah blah blah just need to lighten up and learn new skills to impress people and have something to talk about."

:I

I don't know. Maybe you're right. Heck, maybe no one's completely wrong. I love the idea of just doing my own thing and saying screw the world, but that's exactly what I did three years ago when I basically just stayed inside, talked to my Internet friends and became good at Super Smash Bros.

[Tomcost]

Ninja'd many times:

If the world is a meritocracy, why bother to do things in which somebody else is going to specialize?

Some points you should consider:
1) Everybody's ideal of happiness doesn't have to be yours.
2) Working hard all your life to get better living conditions afterwards doesn't have sense. Mainly because after life you will be dead.
3) Most of the stuff you put in the list is completely useless unless you like to do it. And I can guess that if you had liked it, you would be good at it by now (you are pretty good at drawing and it's obvious that you like it, so that's an exception)

As somebody over me said, what people says shouldn't affect you. The goal in your life should be to achieve happiness. If you feel that investing some time in something won't ever pay off, just don't do it.

Social pressure can be something really difficul to overcome, but the key to lessen its effects is to just don't hang out with those people who say these things (if possible).

By the way, I'm a native Spanish speaker, so maybe I can help you with that!

[QuakeIV]

@acetech and quake

I am extremely hesitant to take that good-sounding "fuck the world" advice because every stressful thing I have been told re: the meritocracy of the world has, no pun intended, some merit.

For example: I do not understand competitive team sports. They have never been fun to play no matter how many times I've tried. Basketball, volleyball, baseball, even ultimate frisbee. It seems most people have inside of them a fundamental desire to be a part of a team and triumph over teams. I do not have that. I was literally born without it. As a result, I can only connect with a lot of people in my area on a superficial level because there isn't much to do locally except hike, eat and play sports. I've resorted to totally fake and not-real Internet Friendships I shouldn't have because they're not real friends like mean come on geez dude in place of "real" friends because every "real" "friend" I've made has had exciting primary interests like "sex," "parties," "sports" and other things I just don't fucking care about, at least right now.

"Make new friends or you won't be able to X! Oh, you have trouble making new friends? It's probably because blah blah blah just need to lighten up and learn new skills to impress people and have something to talk about."

:I

I don't know. Maybe you're right. Heck, maybe no one's completely wrong. I love the idea of just doing my own thing and saying screw the world, but that's exactly what I did three years ago when I basically just stayed inside, talked to my Internet friends and became good at Super Smash Bros.

(I think) you need to sorta distill out of that what is and isn't useful to you, both what we are saying and what the other guys suggesting sports and shit are saying.


For instance, what X activity do you need friends in order to do?  Do you need X?  The only thing you utterly NEED is a job that makes enough money to afford you lodging and food, ideally one that either doesn't take too much time up or that you enjoy.

Its also kinda true that the world is a meritocracy.  (not totally, or we would be a little further along then we are)  You however, seem to be getting this concept mangled into sports and such. 

Lets look at say getting a job, or drawing.  You will never need sports or more friends to do either.  People assessing your merit for a job will be (mostly) assessing your ability to do the job.  And you can pretty much just draw like a boss without anyones approval as long as you can afford the needed materials.  Though people (including me) seem to rather like your ISG's, for instance.

Its also true that you shouldn't totally say fuck the world, more you should say fuck certain specific things.  Don't say fuck getting a job, you need that shit.  Don't say fuck getting the things you need to get a job, you need that shit.  Say fuck sports if you don't like sports, because that isn't needed to you in any way whatsoever.


My paragraph structure is a complete mess due to me adjusting back to university sleep schedule, however I feel like I made my point.
e: minor sentence mods to make this slightly possible to understand

[freeformschooler]

@Tom

...Point number two is a horrifically good point and I hadn't considered it.

Still, I do feel investing time in things will pay off later. There have been plenty of things I only enjoyed when I became good at them. Driving and poker, for example. Who's to say the current misery of learning to sing or code in C++ won't pay off the same way?

Social pressure is probably the root of it all. I hang out with people all the time and usually enjoy their presence, but I'm just too damned weird. The only people who ever stick around are at least as weird as me and also appreciate people for who they are. That's not a lot of people. Like, two or three. Most only seem interested in what I can do (usually for them).

Thanks for the offer on Spanish, btw. I really am interested in learning it. It's such a cool language from what I've already learned.

@QuakeIV

On a personal survival level, yes, I need food, lodging and enough money to sustain them. On a less obvious level, I also need people to connect with and something to connect with them about. I've accepted that I'm never going to be interested in sports and never going to play them - that was the point of the example. I'm fine with it. Most things, however... it's hard to see what's going to pay off and what isn't on both a self-fulfillment and social level.

[acetech09]

Also, plan 'fuck the world' only should be enacted- (ooh. it's raining) -if you do have a plan. There can be merit to the meritocracy, but there's definitely merit elsewhere as well. Condensed anecdote:

I always got shit and intense pressure through high-and-middle school because my grades weren't straight-A's. I'm pretty smart, and was definitely capable of playing the meritocracy game through high school, but I wasn't happy with it and it seemed like a waste of time. Parents also were always mad at me for being on the computer, not being social, and at one boint even banned me from b12 because they believed online communities were unhealthy. Two years ago I was going through the business of writing college applications when I realized that I really didn't want to do this. That's when I enacted operation FTW. I'm now one year in and things are going great. I have a part-time job as a game designer for a San Francisco startup, and am also part of a conglomerate of independent engineers that do bespoke fabrication for rich people (custom cars/parts, carbon-fiber everythings, etc.). Both pay well enough, and more importantly, I love both my jobs and am quite happy.

Take from that what you will.

[Tomcost]

Remember that the things that will pay off later are mostly those who offer an inherent and meaninful advantage, or those that you just like.

I have the feel that you are not only stressed, but also feel quite lonely, but you don't want to put that as one of the main problems. It happens quite often. People, even when they are friends, just "use" each other. If being your friend wouldn't provide them some kind of benefit, they just wouldn't be your friends. Loyalty is just a consequence of that constant benefit. So maybe it would help to stop seeing friendship as something magic, and more as a way to enjoy yourself. There is no sense in feeling bad because the sports guys don't want to hang with you because you don't really have any real interest in sports.

Also, a personal way of viewing things and maybe some useful advice:

Many times a person can force himself to learn to do something, or to work. I see most of these things as games. The game of economics, where you have to find a way to combine your resources to reach the higher score (not measured in money, but happiness, that is the true goal) should be the game that rules your life. There are almost no games in which you don't engage in tasks that would in real life be considered work, but they are still played. Maybe you should start to do the inverse and see work more like a game? If a team of devs can trick you into thinking that you are killing a dragon by means of fancy (or not so fancy, I'm looking at you, WoW) graphics and  making you press the same 3 keys in the same sequence, why can't you think of work as a game? It doesn't have to be a competitive one. It can be just the game of self-improvement with your own goals. And, as a game, you decide when to play it or not.

[QuakeIV]

@QuakeIV

On a personal survival level, yes, I need food, lodging and enough money to sustain them. On a less obvious level, I also need people to connect with and something to connect with them about. I've accepted that I'm never going to be interested in sports and never going to play them - that was the point of the example. I'm fine with it. Most things, however... it's hard to see what's going to pay off and what isn't on both a self-fulfillment and social level.

I see.  (or may see, thats exactly what I thought last post and I seem to have somewhat missed the point then)

With regards to social/self fulfillment stuff, I cant say I have enormous experience.  I found my top friend dude in my latest home and have been more or less content with him, and various transient friends I run across through my various school endeavors.  Beyond that I mostly just do stuff for my immediate amusement or to stave off university related insanity from pressing my brain to the best academic performance I can get out of it.

All I think I can say beyond that, while being interesting to people helps get friends, doing certain things deliberately that you wouldn't otherwise do will not necessarily get you good friends by my own personal definition.  It could catch the attention of people who may end up being good friends, just its a pretty inefficient and tiring technique to doing so.  The way I find friends is almost entirely instinctive to be honest with you.  Its worth noting I have a tiny number of friends, it just never seemed to bother me. (1 good one, 2 acquaintances, numerous people I'm on idle chatting terms with)  I chat with people if it seems 'appropriate' (an almost entirely randomly and situationally defined term) or if theres an open looking conversation that interests me (university has opened up many opportunities on this front) then if anyone really interests me, I get to know them better.  Then maybe even become what I would seriously call a friend.


fakeedit: Also it seems like part of the difficulty here is we are still trying to latch onto the exact issue here that is bothering you.  I feel like we are getting closer on the average, but its been a bit of a messy process so far.

[freeformschooler]

Compared to most "awkward/introverted" people I know, I am not lonely and would be slapped upside the head for suggesting so. I am eternally lonely inside my mind because I cannot connect with most people on a shallow level (small talk, fashion, "how 'bout them Braves?"), but definitely not lonely in the world. The former thing isn't really changeable. It's unrelated to skillset or improvement. Still, more friends who don't just want to use me would always be great.

Amazing advice from everyone, though. I especially like the bit about gamification. That would probably take some serious work to adjust to... up until now, any time I play a game like the Economics Game, it's less playing and more competing with myself viciously. A more casual outlook on improvement like that would probably help lighten up. Thank you.

EDIT: @Quake, the exact issue is that I not only have been told but also legitimately feel like I am perpetually not doing as well as I could be be doing in anything at any given time, and efforts to improve myself by learning new skills have made me bang my head against the wall (or toilet, as it may be). Everything I know about becoming happier seems to tie back into self improvement, and so far, it's just making me sick.

[Tomcost]

Something more that may be useful:

When someone tries to do something, they usually put all the effort into doing so. Many times this is inefficient, because it gets you bored, and that makes you progress less. If you want to achieve somethign tedious, just do things in parts. When you feel that you are not doing things very well, just stop, because it's counter productive to waste effort to do few things. It generally works pretty well for me when I have to study (well, actually I'm studying as I'm writing this)

[Vector]

I can't do a single one of the things in the OP and I'm the coolest, smartest person I know.

(I can't hear myself saying those un-humble things over the sound of how awesome I am)

But man, go lie down on your bed for five minutes and just be.  When you feel stressed like that, go lie down and feel how it is to inhabit your limbs.  How heavy they are.  The outside-sounds that come in through the walls.  Just enjoy your body for a bit.  This is how I survived high school, personally.

And as for the rest of it, I personally keep two lists.  One is the meat-and-potatoes list.  The other one is the dreams list.  Everything on the meat-and-potatoes list should exist in service of the dreams list.  And if you don't have any dreams, why, then that's your problem. . . the only self-improvement task worth considering.

@Quake, the exact issue is that I not only have been told but also legitimately feel like I am perpetually not doing as well as I could be be doing in anything at any given time, and efforts to improve myself by learning new skills have made me bang my head against the wall (or toilet, as it may be). Everything I know about becoming happier seems to tie back into self improvement, and so far, it's just making me sick.

Being happier is usually seen as an improvement of the self, yeah.  But if that's not working, why not just live like a jellyfish for a while?  Relax!  Let life take you where it will.  Enjoy.  Accept.  You don't have to fight, you know.  What you do is up to you, and it doesn't matter how many people say otherwise, it's true.

[weenog]

totally fake and not-real Internet Friendships I shouldn't have because they're not real friends like mean come on geez dude

Sounds like you already get this, but it bears repeating: Those internet friendships can absolutely be "real" friends.  One of my totally fake and not-real internet friends saved my life and hooked me up with a future, last year.  She lives with me now.  Last Thursday, she bought a sweet antique truck I wanted but couldn't afford, to sell on to me later when my finances are in better shape.

A few months ago, another of my totally fake and not-real internet friends loaned me several hundred dollars when a freak calamity left me unable to make rent for the month.  When I repaid her, she remarked that I was better about paying off debts promptly than her local friends.

More than once, totally fake and not-real internet friends have talked me down off the ledge when I was so stressed out I was on the verge of self-destruction.  In one case this involved a phone call that started with a solid half hour of incomprehensible shouted gibberish before I could get a real word in (my stutter comes back under stress... that woman has the patience of a saint).

---

Saying "fuck the world" isn't going to help.  Saying "fuck all that bullshit" is more appropriate.  Do what you need to do to support yourself, unless you want to die (which is a legitimate option, all those "suicide is wrong and selfish" bastards are selfish hypocrites themselves).  Beyond that, if you improve yourself, improve yourself in ways that interest you, accumulate skills and talents that you will be satisfied with.  An alleged improvement that doesn't benefit you in some way and that you're not going to use anyway is no improvement at all, it's bullshit.

Maybe you should make a list of things you want to do, and things you feel you might need to do, and focus your improvements there.  Remember this is about you, not about others' expectations, so keep their pressure out of it, they can't live your life for you.  Don't worry about whether it makes sense to anyone else, as long as it makes sense for you.

You think people congratulate me for a fine and well-organized set of choices when my self-improvement goals look like "Know multiple ways to start a fire with no matches nor lighter," "drive a manual transmission vehicle," "invest in stocks till my returns mean I don't need to work to live," "learn to play the bagpipes," and "finally ascend a NetHack character, then get good enough to do it consistently"?  Hell no.  But it consists of things I want, and things that I think I might need, so I can muster the persistence to go out there and get them, and not worry about it so much in the meantime.  The only one applying pressure and determining deadlines is me.

Doing likewise may work for you.

[freeformschooler]

Thank you weenog the internet friends thing was a jab at the venom I've heard over the years over spending my years associating with awesome people who live a few states away. Fairly ironic considering one of the main people who talks me down for this is now married to someone she held a long distance relationship with for over a year.

Since you said it would be good to list them, here are a few of the "useless, wasteful" things I am interested in learning:

A second language
How to art well
How to music well
How to code well
How to better help people in need
How to voice act and carry a tune
How to finish projects
How to be funnier and more spontaneous
How to be more outgoing without feeling like i am putting on a show (not sure if possible)
One on one or small group party games (pool, card games,  darts - I love these but am bad at most of them)

Here is an interesting anecdote. A very charismatic friend once told me I was the "king" of our social circle. I had no idea what that meant. He told me there was such a thing as popularity within small groups of friends. I still kind of doubt that and don't understand it (after all, even if such a thing was true, he was by far more outgoing and friendly, so shouldn't he be the "king?") What I learnt from that is sometimes there is merit to people in ways they themselves can't understand. Maybe, even if the world is in theory a meritocracy (such a fun word), the way to come out on top is not always to flagellate yourself until you "get it right."

Edit: also thank you vector. I need to be reminded of that every once in a while.