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[wierd]

Depends on the job.  Some of the less desirable jobs, like garbage men, get paid pretty well, because of hazard pay.

It depends on the environment in which you find yourself, how much it costs to live in your area, and what effective pay is for that area.

There is no "one size fits all" situation, despite what some (well meaning, but deluded) people lobbying congress may think.  The economies in silicon valley, and Tulsa oklahoma, are radicallu different, and always will be, as such, what works in one place may not (probably won't) work in the other.

Same for me. At my rate of pay doing NC programming work, I can easily afford my house, and have good free time available. However, if I were paid the same rate in california, I couldn't afford to live under a bridge. It isn't the dollar amount you get paid, it's what you can do with that money, and how much time you can keep while getting it.

Depending on the area, working as a janitor could very well be what makes it work. (For you.)  You have to appraise the situation realistically, and objectively, and make a good game plan, then follow it.

[Imp]

I grew up in a small town, one primarily populated by retired folks and people surviving through welfare, and my life, opportunities, and outlook changed dramatically when I moved to a big city.

Sometimes your social circle is influenced by being filled with very similar people, who may not really be that similar to yourself.  In a very large and enriched environment, filled with choices, you can choose to also associate with people who are different from each other - in some smaller town environments that choice may only exist virtually.  In quite a few places, everyone around shares very similar beliefs and values, or mostly are of a few main groups of similar ways of thinking and planning.

When you find that your environment fails to suit you, when the people around you are mostly all pressuring you to change and you are not comfortable, one goal that can be worth working towards is moving away to a more enriched environment, typically a medium to large city.  There are problems with that sort of move too.  Everything may be different for you, which can be bad and good.  Your support systems will be completely different, and possibly in some ways temporarily absent, until you can learn what your present opportunities are and how to get what you need and want from what is currently around you.

For what I wanted in life, which strongly leaned towards getting a scientific college degree and a livable income from a stable, interesting, and challenging job, I absolutely could not have found a way to get where I lived.  The only college within 60 miles was a community college, offering only the standard AA degree, and/or an AS degree in nursing or automotive repair.  There was a basic science-focused series of biology classes, but the only chemistry and physics programs offered were a single introductory class in each.  There were scientific employers around, though very few - but no way to get a degree to qualify for that work, and huge, overwhelmingly huge competition for every job.  The area had close to an 18% unemployment rate when I left it.  It's hard to find statistics from then, but even now, about 14 years later, that area has over a 12% unemployment rate, and the average income per person is around $19,400 (US average is 8.6% unemployment and around $26,000 average income per person)

I had help getting out of that place, a couple of guys I was friends with in high school wanted to move to a big city, their girlfriends and some other friends and friends of friends got talked to and included, and we sort of caravanned over the course of  a year to a very big city.  Only two of us had stable jobs, and only three of us had a car out of the dozen of us.  One person, the guy we thought most likely to succeed, period, was sent to the city first, and helped financially for a couple of months as he got a job (he initially lived out of his car) and then a tiny apartment.  His girlfriend went next, and she got a job, they got a larger place, and two more came down, using that apartment as a base to look for work and later places of their own.

Not everyone made it - those who couldn't get or keep a job within a couple months got taken back home.  Four of us did well though, and over the years we finished fully paying each other back and eventually went our separate ways.

That's what I needed, opportunities to get educated and employed.  I had people telling me what to do and how to do it, but that never really was central to my life - I was pretty independent even from early childhood, and scored well enough on the tests in school that people largely either bullied me or reasoned with me and allowed me to walk away if I didn't agree with them.  But I had to change my whole life to have a real chance to be where I felt comfortable and like I belonged.  I had little means to change my opportunities, until I worked with a few other people who, though not at all like-minded, also needed an environmental change and could not by themselves achieve it.

So I highly recommend that you accept what you want, or that you don't want what you don't want, and then identify 'what you need' to make that possible to get or avoid, and that you observe and work towards finding a highly-probable path towards that  change, and work to make it happen.  You might need not more opportunities, but more acceptance; you might not even need to move, though to me it sounds like that might be a good choice if most of the people around you are all very similar and unlike you and how you want to be - and you seem to have little place where you are.

[mastahcheese]

My ability to give advice is terrible, but I will try to help you out in the least sane way possible.
By speaking my opinion at you.

It's every article I read, every professional I talk to, and every family member I meet. "You're 19 and you don't know how to...
1.Speak spanish
2.Throw a horseshoe
3.Cut down a tree (okay I can do small trees)
4.Tell me where minnesota is
5.Drive a stick shift
6.Draw the right and proper way
7.Whistle
8.Snap your fingers
9.Carry a tune
10.Skateboard
11.Play football well
12.Flirt like other people do
13.Do that fancy bridge shuffle?

1.I've never like Spanish, and I can't see a real need to know this one. Also French is better at making other people feel inferior.
2.This is a totally useless skill. Never once will you need this skill in life.
3.Ok, this one might be useful, but I can't do that.
4.Nobody cares about Minnesota
5.In today's day and age of automatic transmissions, I doubt you'll need this unless there is a zombie apocalypse. If that happens, I'll come get you.
6.You have amazing drawing, convention is for sissies.
7.This really isn't very necessary at all.
8.Neither is this.
9.Neither is this.
10.Don't even get me started on how unnecessary this one is.
11.Or this.
12.I never learned how to flirt. I am the most anti-social person I know, and I'm happily married. What does that tell you?
13.This one is overrated. Take it from someone who can, having people ask you to shuffle gets frelling annoying after a while.

I do not understand competitive team sports. They have never been fun to play no matter how many times I've tried. Basketball, volleyball, baseball, even ultimate frisbee. It seems most people have inside of them a fundamental desire to be a part of a team and triumph over teams. I do not have that. I was literally born without it.

Competitive team sports is not needed for life. You don't have to be good at them. You don't have to understand them. You don't have to like them, and you don't even need to know the rules. They were made by people who feel insignificant if they do something that doesn't have the potential to disappoint another person, so they made games where they have clear cut enemies, and don't require a lot of thinking to understand how to hit them or humiliate them. I have never liked sports of any kind. I do not enjoy another person's sweat and underarms in close proximity. And I can't imagine anyone that would. But apparently there are those who do, but they aren't important.

As a result, I can only connect with a lot of people in my area on a superficial level because there isn't much to do locally except hike, eat and play sports. I've resorted to totally fake and not-real Internet Friendships I shouldn't have because they're not real friends like mean come on geez dude in place of "real" friends because every "real" "friend" I've made has had exciting primary interests like "sex," "parties," "sports" and other things I just don't fucking care about, at least right now.

"Make new friends or you won't be able to X! Oh, you have trouble making new friends? It's probably because blah blah blah just need to lighten up and learn new skills to impress people and have something to talk about."

Let me tell you something that I learned way too late in my life.
You don't need friends to do anything.
Sure, people can enjoy them, but if getting far in your life is what you want, there is absolutely no "friend requirement" anywhere.
The concept of "sex," "parties," "sports" as you put it, is stupid. The fact that these are the top priorities of these people, and the fact that they are the ones that are telling you that you can't do anything, is blatant hypocrisy at its best. These are the people who think that their lives are great until they wake up and realize that they have wasted their life away and accomplished nothing, while making fun of the people like you who actually have talent.

I don't know. Maybe you're right. Heck, maybe no one's completely wrong. I love the idea of just doing my own thing and saying screw the world, but that's exactly what I did three years ago when I basically just stayed inside, talked to my Internet friends and became good at Super Smash Bros.

I want to tell you a story about my life.
When I was a kid, I had no friends, at all. Not even people who pretended to be my friend. I literally had nobody to talk to, not even my own family would listen to me. I didn't really have access to the computer to make internet friends, either. So I went down to the basement, brushed off the Nintendo, and played Super Smash Bros. for years of my life. In 6th grade, my class got a new student, some guy from a different state, who was used to things like school uniforms and being taught the proper way to be polite. He stuck out like a sore thumb. Because nobody liked me, the only seat in the class that wasn't taken was next to me, so he was placed there. We didn't talk to each other for about 3 days, until he noticed me drawing maps for Halo in the event that I found a map editor. After a while, he became my only friend, but I still never talked to him outside of school. I never talked to anyone else until 8th grade, when I met this kid who was a huge Star Trek fan. He even knew Klingon. But that's not really important. When I went to high school, I decided that I would change, and that I would make friends and talk to people and have fun. That's not me. My friend became quite good at this. He made lots of friends, with charismatic people. After a while, he stopped being the guy I knew. Now, I don't really like using curse words, but he became a total douche-bag asshole. So I stopped talking to him, and everyone else, with the exception of one girl I knew. Now would probably be a good time to mention that I'd never dated anyone. I never learned how to talk to girls, or, for that matter, to consider them in any light other than as some form of sentient life form. Just like the male sentient life forms that beat me up regularly. Combine this with the fact that my interests did not very well include things that would be of interest to the standard model of female sentient life forms, and you'll realize that I have exactly zero capability to relate to them in any way. This was my total list of skills at the time: Mythology (gained from playing Age of Mythology, mostly), Math (which I failed because I had no motivation), Video Games, and fighting using various weapons and martial arts. The only reason at all that we got together was because we could relate on one thing. Both of our lives sucked. I won't go into details on her past, but they weren't fun, and so she could understand why I harbored a hatred and resentment for the whole of the human race. So, when exactly did I ask her out? Never. In fact, we were best friends for two and a half years before we basically just both agreed that we might as well be dating by that point, and skipped about eighty percent of the normal social process involved with dating. I still don't know how to flirt. I still can't talk with people. I still find people to be overall creepy and disturbing. I even have a fear of crowds. I never learned any of the normal things a human should have learned by that point in my life. By that point in my life, I had switched my self training from quarter staves to actual spears in order to make sure it was lethal. Now if that was utterly confusing, I'll explain. Long story short, I decided that if my dad made due on his threats, it would be him going down, and not me. I spent ten years of my life, from the time I was eight years old, when he started, to the day I turned eighteen, and left to get away from there. That's a lot of time I spent on a skill I never needed to use in the end. That time could have been spent devolving some skill I could have used, like following my dream of being a video game designer. Now where was I? Oh yeah, friends. What I'm trying to say is that you have the opportunity to do what you want. And you don't need other people to do. Sometimes it's best to just trust yourself and your own capabilities. You don't need to worry about things like friends, you can get them later, in any case. I'd suggest working on something you enjoy, not something some else wants you to do.

Since you said it would be good to list them, here are a few of the "useless, wasteful" things I am interested in learning:
1.A second language
2.How to art well
3.How to music well
4.How to code well
5.How to better help people in need
6.How to voice act and carry a tune
7.How to finish projects
8.How to be funnier and more spontaneous
9.How to be more outgoing without feeling like i am putting on a show (not sure if possible)
10.One on one or small group party games (pool, card games,  darts - I love these but am bad at most of them)

1. Really, this is up to you. Find something that could potentially get used in your life, though.
2. You can art really well already, you just won't admit it.
3. I have no advice here.
4. I am totally clueless on this one, and I wish I could do it.
5. Ok, I'll have to ask you a question on this one. How are you unable to help? Do you not feel like you are capable? Do you have trouble actually going to them and helping? Do you simply not know what to do in order to help? What is it specifically?
6. I don't know about this one.
7. Hahahha, I'd be the worst person to give advise on this one. I have to trip over unfinished projects just to make it to the bedroom.
8. Honestly? I don't think you have a problem with this one. Most people really don't. It's just that they don't appeal to the common standard of humor. I don't find myself funny. Most people don't find me funny, but my wife does, because she actually gets my humor, and that's what counts to me.
9. Hmm... All of my advise is kind of going against being social in general, probably shouldn't listen to me on that one.
10. Pool: I can't help with. Cards: same issue. But Darts, on the other hand, I'm pretty good at. You want to know what the biggest problem with throwing darts is? The way you throw. Since you say you're bad at it, I'm going to assume that you throw like most people do, where you hold the dart over your shoulder, making practice hand motions like some kind of golf player does before a shot, possibly even sticking out your tongue like an idiot like a lot of people do.
Get on youtube or whatever, and look up the methods of Shaolin Monks using some proper throwing spikes.
I'm not kidding.
The trick is to get the dart to spiral in mid-air, this allows it to take less of an impact from air resistance, and fly straighter.
Yes, I had people make fun of me for not holding a dart like they did, unlit I flicked my wrist from down by my waist and got it to actually hit the target. Technique is very important for any kind of throwing weapons. Take it from someone who's spent a few years at it, throwing something isn't something you just pick up, figure out the right kind of technique, and train at it. And you do not need to train with darts, you can train with just about anything that you can throw in the same manner as a dart or a knife. So as long as you aren't training with javelins, you're good. (Although if you can get your friends to play a good round of javelins with you, that's good, too.)

This is most likely the longest post I've ever written, maybe the longest one I'll ever write.

But long story short, if the zombie apocalypse happens, I'll grab my spear and come get you, and we can play Super Smash Bros. together.

[Mr Space Cat]

This thread interests me. I can relate a bunch, although I don't have any particular advice on it.

Only difference is you sound way more extroverted and interested in others than I am. Sounds like you want to meet the expectations of others. Personally, I'd much rather all those expectations --"grow up, get a life, be normal, be social, get a girlfriend, lrn2sport, get a job, etc"--all just cease to exist so I can focus on my own interests for even more time. (Hypothetically. Even when I have that kind of free time where I could completely devote to something, I instead play video games, then regret it afterwards. So yeah.)

I lied about the advice part. It sounds like maybe you're trying to do too much? That's what I've gotten from personal experience; all the extra obligations and goals and stuff from the rest of life just get forced on to you and overwhelm you when combined with everything you're pursuing yourself. Parable: All your teachers simultaneously assign you homework on the weekend when you already had plans. Now you have to juggle both. Weekend ruined.

The solution to "doing too much" is obviously to do less, but personally I have yet to find a way to actually do this. If you're at all similar to me, which you kinda sound like you are (offense unintended), then cutting back on stuff might just sound worse, and/or impossible.

Interpret this post as you will. I'm trying to be motivational though, but it's midnight atm and I'm probably not in the best shape for posts like this that actually require thoughtful content.

[Gamerlord]

I can also relate.

[Tiruin]

It's every article I read, every professional I talk to, and every family member I meet. "You're 19 and you don't know how to...

I missed the every other post so I'll say this. These are expectations--you've done pretty much more than what you can do, and what you have done are the notions which should be prodded at, not (in essence) what others expect.


Now, I'm not saying that those are judging or finalizing constants that make it bad. They're criticism-meaning that you can take it anywhich way you can. Look at it as positive and build up on it, or negative, and focus on that which you see right.

This is what makes it bad.

You're worthless.[...]

Attaching a label to what one can do, instead of looking at the person as a person and not some flat character is a bad thing. Attributing someone's worth to what you'd expect, and rather than what someone can actually do is a bad nudge in the way of negative criticism.

You could have had six pack abs and enough skill for a five figure job, but instead you only have a few real friends. You should have developed X skills to mastery because now you are an adult and potential is useless. Now you are an adult and you are useless."

..The ellipses was there for a reason. People put lots of emphasis that YOU SHOULD BE X by this time or WHAT DID YOU DO IN [PAST] to define where you're standing now.

Only thing is, that time is relative. There is no such fact as squandered potential, only the focus on where your potential will be.

[...]If only I had thought to learn something worthwhile and become very good at it I would have another job and a girlfriend and more friends and be happier!

That last part is what's confusing me. This constant push to make up for the nerdiness of my teenage years isn't making me happy.  It will pay off I am told. Everyone else can do these things. But is this the key to happiness?

And the clincher. Regret.

'If only x had y and z and abcdefg...'

The 'If only I had done' notion spreads into a whole arboreal tree of regret. While the positive part of it lies in seeing what you could've done, the negative part lies in that it may affect your current path into regression. Sticking to the present and learning from your past seems like the best option.

And the key to happiness is..well, there is no defined route to happiness, truth be told. Its in how one values. Everyone has a way on how they see being happy..or perhaps, successful. I think that's where the key you said back there is based on. The note on paying off--it comes more of a subtle nudge to develop. Wherein you put yourself in the situation of where it may lead, and what you can do to help yourself in that manner.

And on friends..what truly makes up a friend anyway? That you can base a tangible part of what you've known is a 'friend' on them, or their personality? Real friends, I find, are those who regardless of looks, age, gender, and other physical qualities, can still stick together despite anything--the internet friend pertains to the qualities that most people have, and show as part of their personality. Said people can be real friends, actually. It's just like a mirror of reality-there are those that show what they want to, and there are those that show who they are. Everyone hides behind a mask-both online, and offline. And all (most?) are for the basic mechanism of not wanting to get 'hurt'. A defensive mechanism.

I take it that the media and/or marketing takes on what is what they see as, generally wanted by the masses-its kind of like something most people like, but the thing is that it has one big flaw: outright comparing.

..Also most of the things on the list are trivial. And when I say trivial, I mean..'how in the world is not knowing this equate to the person being "worthless"' It's like there's no sense in how that logic follows. Being apathetic to anything though, is not something to do.

:/ Just to say.

..I think I just rambled >_> Erm, hopefully i made a bit of sense there.


Anyway, since I skimmed the rest of the posts (little time and I had worried when I saw the title) I'd say that you're a pretty awesome person FFS..

...Also I can't do any of those things in the OP, and I'm quite happy with being myself.

..On a side note, I didn't know you need Spanish in America. I mean, here in the Philippines, we don't need Spanish despite our..history with them. And that most elders speak fluent spanish/english and tagalog. O_o

[wierd]

The united states has a constant stream of immigrants (Both legal and illegal) from Mexico, who speak essentially ONLY Spanish.  In areas where they have naturally aggregated in large numbers, this can impose a significant communication barrier, and being bilingual comes with some significant advantages in those localities.

This "Issue" with immigration and language has many groups of people in the US treating the immigrants as if they are evil villainous scum out to destroy the American way of life(tm), or some other such nonsense, and this has caused a pretty nasty divide in public opinion on the issue, with some very ugly rhetoric being spouted, and nasty actions being taken in very extreme forms.

The reality is that the US has pretty open borders, has a reasonably high standard of living, and is an attractive destination for immigration, even for people who don't speak English, and there is a pretty pronounced disparity in such standards of living between the united states and many parts of Mexico (though admittedly, not all parts of mexico), making the desire to live here instead of there, much more poignant given the short physical distances involved. When those immigrants get here, they have difficulty integrating because of the language barrier, and they create their own microcommunities, which then grow. You see this very pronouncedly in places like southern california, but also in many southern states in the US. Again, not all of those immigrants are here legally, but likewise, not all are here illegally either.  That's not really important to the issue though, other than as grounds for public sentiments. The fact that they are here, and do not speak English, necessitates that SOMEBODY learn a new language. That's what's really important.  Given that the natives here are often financially more advantaged to that capability, the easiest course of action is to teach spanish as well as english in public schools, to such an extent that at least simple communication is possible. "Quieres son bano por favor" and and all that.  The political situation arises from people resent having to adapt to a changing landscape on the language front, and the sensation of having an imposition thrust upon them, and of having other opportunities be perceived to be taken away from them by these new additions to the cultural landscape. Essentially people afraid of what is different, and angry about change. The same thing happened on the east coast during and immediately after the irish potato famine, and resulting wave of irish imigrants on the coast. Now the irish communities are essentially all assimilated into the eastern coast's culture, just like any other local group. The same thing will eventually happen in the southern states here in the US with the mexican immigrant population centers. It will just take awhile. In the meantime however, the language barrier needs to be dealt with, and that requires bilingual people in some capacity.

Much in line with my earlier shpeel, there's no shortage of people looking to make use of such bilingual people to turn a profit from the situation, and as such, there's no shortage of sjuch profit-motive driven people trying to demand that people become bilingual that would otherwise prefer not to be, to facilitate that desire. So much so in fact, that some employers are demanding ONLY bilingual persons apply for certain positions, regardless of geographic location, fueling the concerns about lost employment opportunities resulting from immigrants moving in.

Personally, I feel that if a person WANTS to learn spanish, that's great! There's some clear advantages to doing so. However, the moment you start trying to force such a decision on people, to satisfy some greed driven motive, is the moment that the invisible line is drawn and things have gone too far-- consequently, that's exactly what mandatory spanish classes in public school, and mandatory bilingual english-spanish competency on job applications represents; things gone too far. It doesn't matter how well intentioned. The ugly side of upholding the freedoms of expressions and ideas, is upholding the right to be ignorant, and or opinionated.

That same sentiment is unfortunately one of the nasty driving forces behind a lot of the racial and demographic stereotyping going on that seriously soils the "Immigration reform", "Illegal alien", and "Border enforcement" issues, and leads to things like Arizona's rather infamous internal initiatives.  You cant really get away with telling people where they can and cant live in a country that presumably prides itself on being a constitutional republic founded on the principle of inalienable human rights.  It's no wonder people go nuts, trying to sift through that quagmire.

People should have the option of choosing to remain ignorant or unskilled, in any field, discipline, or capacity, if that is their choice. However, they must also be allowed to endure the consequences of that choice. If that means suddenly not being able to buy groceries at the store because you cant ask how much something costs in spanish, in a now heavily spanish speaking area, that's just too damned bad. It's never too late to learn. The other shoe needs to be able to drop too, with spanish only immigrants being unable to find work or buy things because they cant speak english.  It's a two way street, and acting like it is anything other than that is a recipe for disaster. Well intentioned introduction of mandates to try to "Overcome" that situation just better paves the road to hell in such a state of affairs. That things PAVED with good intentions.

Mandating that people be bilingual is like mandating that everyone have a medical degree. It's absurd. However, choosing to forgo the medical degree means you don't know how to practice medicine, and if you find yourself in a predicament where that would have been real useful to know, well-- that's just too damned bad.  There's any number of really valid reasons not to go out of your way to learn something like that. Mandating that people should have to is going too far. Doesn't matter what it is.  Sure, Mandating that everyone be a doctor would certainly go a long way toward alleviating public health issues and reducing the suffering that causes--- but what about the issues that the mandate ITSELF causes? People going bonkers or resenting medicine and the medical industry for the imposition, inducing the exact opposite of the intended benefits?  The well intentioned usually tend to overlook THAT part of the decision, and turn their brains off immediately after making the mandate, assuming it will solve all the problems. It doesn't, it makes things just that much worse.

Doesn't stop greedy people who fail the profit motive bullshit test, and the foolishly well intentioned from trying though. Sadly, the former often co-opts the latter, and rams things through government anyway, much to everyone's deficit.

That's the real problem here in the US-- Many people here don't know how to leave well enough alone.

[Tomcost]

"Quieres son bano por favor"

Umm, what did you try to say?

I read:"Would you like are (whatever bano means, it is not even in a dictionary) please"

By the way, nice review on the Mexican inmigrants issue in the USA.

[wierd]

quiere means "to like, to seek, to obtain, to want"

Quieres means "we are seeking", or "We would like" "we want to obtain".

Bano needs the little tilde above the N, but my keyboard doesn't support that char, and I don't feel like doing the alt+### sequence to get it.  It means bathroom.

So, "we are seeking your bathroom please." but in HORRIBLE grammar. I dont really speak spanish afterall.

I suppose a better conjugated sentence would be Quiero tu bano por favor (I want your bathroom please), or Necessito uso tu bano por favor. (It is necessary (for me) to use your bathroom please.)

Just as long as they can figure out that I need to pee, and need the bathroom, and they point-- it gets the intent across.

[ChairmanPoo]

All three are horribly botched, but at least the last two wordings are somewhat intelligible.

[wierd]

Note, better conjugated.

Not PROPERLY conjugated.   Considering I literally NEVER use spanish, since my area does not really have a large hispanic demographic, I think I did better than most in my area would have. Doesnt mean it's "Good", just "Comparatively better".

[Tomcost]

I'm a native Spanish speaker, that's why I asked. What you tried to say could be written:

1) ¿Dónde está el baño? (Where is the bathroom?)
2) Estamos buscando el baño. (We are looking for the bathroom)
3) Quiero ir al baño. (A childish "I want to go to the bathroom")
4) ¿Podría decirnos dónde está el baño, por favor? (Could you tell us where is the bathroom, please?)

The verb "Querer" means "want".

And now I feel like a grammar Nazi.

[wierd]

Meh, don't worry about it.  The basic point was that being able to make some half-assed intelligble utterance besides grunts and pointing was of some benefit.

I don't speak spanish. Don't claim to either. But I understand that there is a benefit to being able to do more than grunt or shriek like a chimpanzee. (Or an american tourist...)

  even horribly mangled and mentally jarring to native speakers, it's still better than total ignorance.

[Tomcost]

Yes, for sure. I remember that I once saw a stereotypical tourist  from the USA (Hawaian shirt, fat and white) in a clothes shop trying to buy a t-shirt with a drawn bird in it. He spent a couple minutes motioning a bird until he gave up and left without buying anything.

[wierd]

Indeed.  A mangled "quanta por una ropa?" Might have been met with a pause, some head scratching, and a simply uttered number from the shop keeper, which at least could possibly have resulted in his getting the shirt.

Assuming he knows his numbers that is.

Personally, if I were to go on a vacation to a different country that does not speak english, I would spend at least a month trying to nail down some semblance of being able to speak first. What does it say about me or my country if I go to somebody else's home, and yell and shriek at them in total gibberish because I don't get what I want?  The whole point of a foriegn vacation is to expand one's personal horizons and knowledge of the world, and to anjoy one's self while doing it. How does being "stereotypical, loud, obnoxious american tourist" accomplish ANY of those things!?  But.. again........

*sigh.