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Author Topic: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.  (Read 3067 times)

Dermonster

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2013, 06:56:00 pm »

I do not. I just moved in over the summer (It's my uncles house) and he isn't very good with the techno whatsits.

And it's not like I lose access to the internet, Steam still works, as do any online games. Browsers just go kaput.
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I can do anything I want, as long as I accept the consequences.
"Y'know, my favorite thing about being a hero is that it gives you all kinds of narrative justification to just slay any ol' jerk who gets in the way - Black Mage.
"The bulk of [Derm]'s atrocities seem to stem from him doing things that [Magic] doesn't actually do." - TvTropes
"Dammit Derm!" - You, if I'm doing it right.
Moved to SufficientVelocity / Spacebattles.

foil

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2013, 07:49:10 pm »

Hmmm do both the computers use Internet Explorer?
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Dermonster

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2013, 07:50:05 pm »

I use firefox, one uses chrome, the last uses firefox.
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I can do anything I want, as long as I accept the consequences.
"Y'know, my favorite thing about being a hero is that it gives you all kinds of narrative justification to just slay any ol' jerk who gets in the way - Black Mage.
"The bulk of [Derm]'s atrocities seem to stem from him doing things that [Magic] doesn't actually do." - TvTropes
"Dammit Derm!" - You, if I'm doing it right.
Moved to SufficientVelocity / Spacebattles.

freeformschooler

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2013, 10:35:17 pm »

I haven't been banned and we basically restart our router every five hours cause if we don't our browsers just up and stop accepting internet.
Sounds like your router is croaking how old is it?

Nope. I had him try ethernet. Same issue.

Also, it's just one site.
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foil

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2013, 12:46:21 pm »

Ethernet is still using the router tho.
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Dermonster

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2013, 12:48:39 pm »

Freeform attempted tech support via teamviewer.

I believe he went and got heavily intoxicated afterwards..
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I can do anything I want, as long as I accept the consequences.
"Y'know, my favorite thing about being a hero is that it gives you all kinds of narrative justification to just slay any ol' jerk who gets in the way - Black Mage.
"The bulk of [Derm]'s atrocities seem to stem from him doing things that [Magic] doesn't actually do." - TvTropes
"Dammit Derm!" - You, if I'm doing it right.
Moved to SufficientVelocity / Spacebattles.

freeformschooler

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2013, 02:03:01 pm »

Ethernet is still using the router tho.

Sorry I should have clarified that we tried it with both the router and his modem which apparently had an ethernet port? Idunno i am not at his house he just said he tried ih

HowEver we did almost conclusivrly determine last night that his router is a pile of small rocks encased by plastic
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Dermonster

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2013, 02:06:07 pm »

Well according to that typing style he really did get hammered.
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I can do anything I want, as long as I accept the consequences.
"Y'know, my favorite thing about being a hero is that it gives you all kinds of narrative justification to just slay any ol' jerk who gets in the way - Black Mage.
"The bulk of [Derm]'s atrocities seem to stem from him doing things that [Magic] doesn't actually do." - TvTropes
"Dammit Derm!" - You, if I'm doing it right.
Moved to SufficientVelocity / Spacebattles.

wierd

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2013, 10:21:34 pm »

It's usually pretty common for home routers to have horrifically badly written firmware inside, and for them to perform poorly.

In this case though, I would suggest running a traceroute to see if the one site with issues is timing out on his side, or someplace inside the network of his ISP.

It could very well be possible that his ISP does not like the host he is attempting to reach. Such shenanigans are rather commonplace, sadly, especially with some kinds of services which the ISP or the local government dont like. (See for instance, what happens in china, with the infamous "Great firewall".) This is especially true with ATT, Comcast cable, and pals, who are KNOWN for injecting RST commands and other connection breaking "Features" into internet traffic that they dont like. They are even known to outright lie about doing so as well, even when faced with a raw packet log clearly showing the injected and other shenanigans they pull. Sadly, in the US, people are often forced with the proverbial "Rock and a hard place" when it comes to internet connectivity. The choice is often between the abusiveness of the local cable company, who is likely in bed with Comcast and pals, or with the phone company, who is likely in bed with ATT or Verizon. (All are known for their less than clement treatment of customers.)

I would personally run a traceroute to the "Offending" host, and see if any of the hops time out inside the ISP's network, first and foremost, then I would whip out wireshark, and dump a raw packet trace of the transaction between the local computer and the remote host, to see if any resets or spurrious ACKs are being sent.

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Dermonster

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2013, 10:22:51 pm »

Please repeat that to me as if I was a retarded monkey and we may make progress.

Possibly a 'list of steps to unfuck your issue' would do nicely. Phrased as such to a retarded monkey.
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I can do anything I want, as long as I accept the consequences.
"Y'know, my favorite thing about being a hero is that it gives you all kinds of narrative justification to just slay any ol' jerk who gets in the way - Black Mage.
"The bulk of [Derm]'s atrocities seem to stem from him doing things that [Magic] doesn't actually do." - TvTropes
"Dammit Derm!" - You, if I'm doing it right.
Moved to SufficientVelocity / Spacebattles.

Tellemurius

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2013, 11:01:21 pm »

Please repeat that to me as if I was a retarded monkey and we may make progress.

Possibly a 'list of steps to unfuck your issue' would do nicely. Phrased as such to a retarded monkey.
Meaning his ISP might be a bunch of douchebags blocking his internet for idiotic reasons. Again can only confirmed if OP runs
Code: [Select]
tracert somethinglikemaybegoogle.com within command prompt

Dermonster

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2013, 11:10:53 pm »

I did that with the problem site.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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I can do anything I want, as long as I accept the consequences.
"Y'know, my favorite thing about being a hero is that it gives you all kinds of narrative justification to just slay any ol' jerk who gets in the way - Black Mage.
"The bulk of [Derm]'s atrocities seem to stem from him doing things that [Magic] doesn't actually do." - TvTropes
"Dammit Derm!" - You, if I'm doing it right.
Moved to SufficientVelocity / Spacebattles.

wierd

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2013, 11:13:26 pm »

Traceroute is a core diagnostic program for testing connectivity across interconnected IP protocol networks. It does exactly what it says on the tin, and traces the route through the interconnected networks that a packet gets routed, from source to destination, and how long it takes to get between each "Stop".  Basically, you can imagine your packet of data as being like a letter being sent to some other address.  When you put it in your mailbox with the flag up, the mailman picks it up, and takes it to the local post office, where it is scanned, and sorted for outbound transport to another post office further down the line. Much like tracking which post offices the letter goes through, and how long it takes between each stop, the traceroute command traces the route a packet takes between routers on its way to a destination, and how long it takes for it to get there.

Here's how to run a traceroute session.

On windows, fire up a CMD session.

Start->Run->CMD.EXE

This will give you a DOS like prompt.
On the command line, type:

tracert X.X.X.X

Where X.X.X.X is the IP address of the remote host. You can also just type the address, if you dont know the raw IP, eg, "tracert www.google.com".

The result will be a table of addresses, usually in a long dotted name format, like this:


The first stop in the example, is the local router. "192.168.1.1".  That is the thing that my counterpart claims is "A plastic box filled with rocks." I dont doubt this assessment, but as long as it is passing data through to the next router in the hop list, we know it isn't the problem.

Next on the above sample, the packet filters its way through the local ISP's local distribution tree, which apparently doesnt like traceroute queries, or isnt configured to respond to them. (Not surprising- see previous post about ISPs being dickweeds.) It first passes through "219.88.64.1", with a nameserver ident string indicating it is from the ISP "Jetstream", where it gets passed around that network's netblock (210.x.x.x-219.x.x.x). It runs into a router that doesnt want to report traceroute data, where the request for tracking times out. The next hop is more polite, and actually responds to the query. The next hop is inside a different network, (202.x.x.x), where it bounces around in there, before being passed to the next network (198.x.x.x -199.x.x.x), "Gnaps", then to the next network, "gbr", (207.x.x.x-209.x.x.x), which has a direct connection to what looks to be a class C commercial private IP as the destination. 

Because the packet can be seen crossing several networks before getting to the destination, we know that not only is the above person's local router being a good little box of rocks, their ISP isnt being total dillholes either, and is actually routing their packet like a good little dumb pipe.

A traceroute that fails, will show nothing but timeouts after the network that drops the packet. This lets you know where in the "Between A and B" the packet gets boot stomped. This can happen for a number of reasons, including congestion of the link, making the packet's "Time to live" expire, and thus, for the directing router to deep 6 the packet as too stale to deliver, (Each packet is blessed with a maximum life expectency when it is created and shipped out called the Time to Live. This is the maximum number of milliseconds that can elapse from creation to delivery before the packet is considered too stale to deliver, and gets the deep-six. This is a safety mechanism for automatically reconfiguring TCP/IP networks, like the internet-- which update and change routes based on congestion and deliverability thresholds, and prevents a packet from getting "The run around" between routers who insist that "The other guy" knows how to deliver the packet, when they really don't. When the packet gets bounced around enough times, it is simply discarded, to avoid it being passed around indefinitely while the network reconfigures its routes with the APT protocol, and disrupting the network for other users. While having your packets time out is an annoyance some times, it is considerably better than having zombie packets clogging up the pipes, left undelivered from 1980!) If the router takes too long to process and ship out the packet, the time to live will elapse, and the packet will be discarded. Traceroute lets us determine if, and where, this is happening.

If the traceroute comes back consistently healthy, then we need to start suspecting shenanigans from the ISP. Doing a wireshark packet capture and analysis is not for the layman, as it is a pretty advanced network tool. (Unlike traceroute, or ping.) It also doesn't come stock on windows OR linux, and requires manual installation. Most users will never have a real need to use something like wireshark, unless they are also managing a multi-router domain, like inside a massively huge office building-- which again, makes them not a normal user. It is however, the only way to catch the ISP doing the nasty to your packet stream, as it will collect and log the complete packet correspondence between two communicating hosts, and much much more if you set it up to do so. Interpreting the resulting data requires a pretty complex education in network protocols, and networks in general. In short, its an expert tool, made for use by experts.

I personally *AM* a trained network administrator, (Previous field of employment was IT.) and am able to read such packet traces. I dont really want to read somebody else's packet traces, as I changed careers for a reason. :D If the packet is being lost outside your local router, then fiddling with your local router wont fix the problem. The traceroute will show you where the timeout is occuring.  If the timeout is happening before it leaves your ISP, then your ISP is being a bunch of assholes, performing "Traffic shaping". That's the "Polite" way of saying "We are slowing your shit down so some other traffic we think is more important can get routed first (like from our streaming movie service, or VOiP telephone box traffic!), and we dont care if this causes your packets to time out. In fact, we actually WANT your packets to time out, so you wont try to use that kind of service anymore, because it costs us money."  Comcast is NOTORIOUS for its traffic shaping efforts.

So, again, I would perform a traceroute to the host that is having timeout problems, to see where the timeout is occurring.
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Dermonster

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2013, 11:14:49 pm »

I believe I ninja'd you.

RETARDED MONKEY FOUND FIRE! ALL WILL BURN. ALL WILL BURN.
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I can do anything I want, as long as I accept the consequences.
"Y'know, my favorite thing about being a hero is that it gives you all kinds of narrative justification to just slay any ol' jerk who gets in the way - Black Mage.
"The bulk of [Derm]'s atrocities seem to stem from him doing things that [Magic] doesn't actually do." - TvTropes
"Dammit Derm!" - You, if I'm doing it right.
Moved to SufficientVelocity / Spacebattles.

wierd

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Re: Tech support! This one website keeps timing out.
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2013, 11:22:33 pm »

Yes, I see that.

I also see that ComCrap is your ISP, and that they appear to be "Shaping" your data. Note the whopping 73ns delivery time on the 4th hop!  That is ENORMOUS! Most packets have a TTL of around 150ns. That ONE HOP is eating up half the TTL!

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