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Author Topic: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People  (Read 34464 times)

ICBM pilot

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2013, 05:15:44 pm »
votes
1,3,5,6,a,b,c,f
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2013, 05:16:53 pm »
Quote from: kahn1234 on September 21, 2013, 04:42:13 pm
What would people think about maybe developing modular shipbuilding techniques?

Might allow up to mass produce large numbers of small/medium sized ships with mix and match standardised armaments.

Might also allow us to have well armoured and hard to sink ships with plenty of firepower without them being too large.
Define what you mean by modules

That sounds way to modern...
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3_14159

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #77 on: September 22, 2013, 05:29:50 am »
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 21, 2013, 05:09:06 pm
Everything. All sorts of rockets, from RPGs to ICBMs (Or atleast there distant, distant ancestors).
I like rockets myself, but I'd like to clarify that we will nearly guaranteed get neither RPGs nor ICBMs, nor anything like that. At least, in the beginning. What we can get are things comparable to the Bazooka (that is, tank is within a hundred metre, tank dead; tank is further away, can't hit him), which will currently be less effective than anti-tank rifles - until their armour gets heavier.
For long-range rockets, they will be mostly ineffective - for example, one V-2 rocket cost as much as one or two medium bombers, each of which could carry twice the amount of explosives and usually be reusable and more accurate (even with us posessing an ICBM pilot. Sorry, could not resist that. :P). So - less effective.

On the other hand, rockets have three possible usages even with our technology:
- unguided aircraft rockets, improving our fighters' anti-ground potential. We need fighters for that, first,  but still. Alternatively, they could be used against bombers using proximity detonation.
- Artillery. Using rockets vs normal tube artillery has advantages in initial rate of fire (all at once, nearly) and cost of delivery system, but disadvantages in sustained rate of fire, cost per shot and range.
- Infantry anti-tank weapons. Once tanks get more heavily armed they will be necessary.

Quote from: kahn1234 on September 21, 2013, 04:42:13 pm
What would people think about maybe developing modular shipbuilding techniques?

Might allow up to mass produce large numbers of small/medium sized ships with mix and match standardised armaments.

Might also allow us to have well armoured and hard to sink ships with plenty of firepower without them being too large.
Hm... do you mean having a standardized hull and packing, while building, different armaments on that? For example, producing a Protector variant with only two 160mm guns and triple the AA firepower? That I think we can do already pretty easily, after all, modification should only be a small project.
Or do you mean building small parts of the hull (about ten to twenty metres at once and welding them together afterwards? I think that would just be abstracted as building them. Or do you mean something else I can't think about?

So, that should be the votes accumulated. I add a vote to F, myself.
Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Production (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Strategies (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Project 2202 Heavy Machine Gun trait vote. (click to show/hide)
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #78 on: September 22, 2013, 06:12:36 am »
no more votes\proposals for  team trainings\reorganizations? Guys this is important. Especially training, academy must give bonuses to us.

Also I understood one thing... Wasp is a bad proposal, Revolutionary torpedo boats are quite good for the shore defense role, we should build those and then refit it with new weapons later when they become obsolete. (like removing 80mm gun and installing ASW equipment)  No need to waste our time designs a ship of similar role, while we can build them now, when we need it!

G. Start constructing revolutionary torpedo boat destroyers

And I vote for G, naturally

And I ask to remove votes for wasps\add votes for the cruiser as we gonna need it later while Wasps will lose any real combat value fast

Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Production (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Strategies (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Project 2202 Heavy Machine Gun trait vote. (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 06:15:57 am by Ukrainian Ranger »
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

3_14159

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #79 on: September 22, 2013, 08:46:01 am »
Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on September 22, 2013, 06:12:36 am
Also I understood one thing... Wasp is a bad proposal, Revolutionary torpedo boats are quite good for the shore defense role, we should build those and then refit it with new weapons later when they become obsolete. (like removing 80mm gun and installing ASW equipment)  No need to waste our time designs a ship of similar role, while we can build them now, when we need it!
Let's compare both designs, Wasp and Torpedo boat (I classify Revolutionary as torpedo boat, nor as destroyer:
Cost efficiency: Hard to say. The Wasp has one fourth of the tonnage, so my first impulse would have been to classify it as one fourth the cost. However, it mounts the same gun, and only half the torpedoes, so I'd rather say the difference is about 3-1 or so.
Anti-Ship (small): Both mount the same 80mm gun, but the Revolutionary torpedo boat has it armoured and in a turret, allowing more fire control. Against smaller ships, the 40mm mounts can be used. So, in a direct duel, it's probably a draw, with an advantage to the Revolutionary as it can drive in one direction and shoot in another.
Anti-Capital: The only relevant thing will be torpedoes, of which the Revolutionary carries twice as many tubes (plus total), while the Wasp will be able to bring more to bear due to its lower cost. Advantage Wasp, with 50% more torpedoes total and distributed platforms.
Anti-aircraft: Definitely the Revolutionary. The other has a few machine guns, that's all.
Operational range: Revolutionary.

Result: Revolutionary is more flexible and all in all probably more cost efficient against anything but capital ships which we're unlikely to encounter. They can be paired with the Protector for AA and anti-capital / raid and scout support.


Agreeing on G, voting for it.

Also, an observation for next round: The truck engine can actually be used unmodified in tanks - it's more powerful than the ones used in light and early medium tanks.

Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Production (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Strategies (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Project 2202 Heavy Machine Gun trait vote. (click to show/hide)
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Patrick Hunt

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #80 on: September 22, 2013, 10:07:08 am »
Voting for 1,3,10 then A,B,C,D,F and Beta+Delta strategy

(( I'll edit in the spoilers tonight when I get to a PC and start doing designs from next year. ))
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 05:44:34 pm by Patrick Hunt »
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3_14159

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #81 on: September 22, 2013, 12:09:49 pm »
Done that for you, as I didn't have anything better to do.

Question: How would you feel about opening an OOC (discussion) thread for next year's proposals and other discussion to not crowd this one and make vote counting less cumbersome?

Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Production (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Strategies (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Project 2202 Heavy Machine Gun trait vote. (click to show/hide)
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Patrick Hunt

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #82 on: September 22, 2013, 12:16:24 pm »
Sounds like a good idea to me.

I have some ideas for the land fortifications but I need a description of terrain on the soon to be island fortress before I can make it more specific.

Unless one is already done and I've forgotten it.

I have another idea as well for the next turn for a small project that is going to be a must have for us but it needs a fast and quiet ship to go with it.
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Caine's law.
And so, here at the end of days, you are as you’ve always been. Willing to die. Not willing to quit.

Vengeance is mine saith the Lord but this morning. He's going to fucking well have to share.

Is she worth it, would you burn the city to save her? For her, I'd burn the world.

3_14159

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #83 on: September 22, 2013, 12:36:37 pm »
Added discussion thread.
As far as I know, no island specifications are known - neither size nor features.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131386.0
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 01:47:27 pm by 3_14159 »
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Morrigi

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #84 on: September 22, 2013, 01:25:30 pm »
....What? The 15mm round is 15x25mm? That would be entirely useless for military applications.

For reference, the Russian round intended for a similar purpose is 14.5x114mm and the .50 BMG is 12.7x99mm.

A reasonable 15mm heavy machine gun cartridge would follow along those lines. 15x120mm, perhaps.
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Aseaheru

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #85 on: September 22, 2013, 01:30:35 pm »
Can we get a link to the new thread?
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Patrick Hunt

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #86 on: September 22, 2013, 01:36:30 pm »
It's not really hard to find.... It's on page 1 of RP at the moment.
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Caine's law.
And so, here at the end of days, you are as you’ve always been. Willing to die. Not willing to quit.

Vengeance is mine saith the Lord but this morning. He's going to fucking well have to share.

Is she worth it, would you burn the city to save her? For her, I'd burn the world.

Aseaheru

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #87 on: September 22, 2013, 01:38:47 pm »
Yes, but for those who go and find this a week from now.
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kahn1234

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #88 on: September 22, 2013, 01:53:20 pm »
Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on September 21, 2013, 05:16:53 pm
Quote from: kahn1234 on September 21, 2013, 04:42:13 pm
What would people think about maybe developing modular shipbuilding techniques?

Might allow up to mass produce large numbers of small/medium sized ships with mix and match standardised armaments.

Might also allow us to have well armoured and hard to sink ships with plenty of firepower without them being too large.
Define what you mean by modules

That sounds way to modern...

Instead of building the entire ship at the same time in the same drydock/shipyard, build different sections of the ship in smaller drydicks/shipyards or even land based or in-land factories and move them to where they can be put together (through riveting and welding).

It IS how modern ships are built, however there is no reason it couldnt be done in this period. Its not like its using technology that doesnt exist.


i suppose it could be said to be based around a standardised hull (either built in one place or built in parts and shipped in and assembled) with prefabricated modules (either built in their entirety in one place or in parts) built elsewhere also shipped in and attached as needed.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 01:57:30 pm by kahn1234 »
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10ebbor10

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People
« Reply #89 on: September 22, 2013, 02:18:39 pm »
Quote from: Morrigi on September 22, 2013, 01:25:30 pm
....What? The 15mm round is 15x25mm? That would be entirely useless for military applications.

For reference, the Russian round intended for a similar purpose is 14.5x114mm and the .50 BMG is 12.7x99mm.

A reasonable 15mm heavy machine gun cartridge would follow along those lines. 15x120mm, perhaps.
As I said, I don't know a lot about guns. Changing that to 125.
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