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[Lidku]

This DLC seems really promising. I'm taking a liking to the news that you'll finally get to actually fine-tune your colony, with an actual functioning set of ideas and philosophy. Usually before, everything just felt "baseline," even in despite of doing a certain playstyle. It didn't feel like anything adapted to how things progressed or diverged. So things like mood debuffs for extracting organs from prisoners, can (hopefully when the DLC releases) be done away with, by setting it as so your colony maybe mad-scientist themed or generally amoral.

I also wonder about the "Indian Jones" style mechanics and new maps they were talking about. I don't know how much use those will be to me, since I early go outside my settlement ever in the early-to-mid game at all; since I'm essentially always used about food in most instances.

[Blue_Dwarf]

Not a fan of more mobs that dig through walls.

[Chiefwaffles]

Not a fan of more mobs that dig through walls.

Yeaaah. Rimworld is great and Tynan seems more than competent at game design, but god is his obsession with rendering static defenses and even somewhat relatively stable bases useless annoying. The mortar change too... eugh. But overall, the expansion looks like it could be great! Though I feel the same as forsaken here -- if it's just "click this button to make your people okay with [warcrime]" then I'm going to be disappointed.

[Damiac]

I hate, but appreciate, the way attacks can bypass defenses, in that it means I can go all out on defense and still be challenged. In DF I have to make up my own rule not to wall myself off because it makes sieges trivial, meaning I have to hold back to preserve challenge. In rimworld I fortify as best I can, but I'm never totally safe.

The changes to mortars do look awful.... but then I think to my lategame bases where at least 50% of my defense is done via mortar before the attackers reach my base... it does make a kind of sense.  Overall it's gonna make sieges terrifying though, what with not having easy mortars to blow them up with, and them having extra accurate mortars...

I tend to play on the "normal" difficulty, strive to survive, with commitment mode on, with the default storyteller.  Maybe my observations don't hold true in harder difficulty levels.

[forsaken1111]

Fortunately the mortar changes are optional. You can revert it to 'classic mortars' or whatever in options when starting a game from what I understand.

I really don't mind the new raid type, it won't be the norm and will only show up sometimes to shake things up. I embrace the chaos of rimworld though, I never really make static kill boxes and things because they make the game too easy once you get entrenched. Same reason I don't just make impenetrable defenses in Dwarf Fortress. I'd rather see my dwarves/pawns out there fighting. If I lose some, well that is part of my story.

Of course everyone plays these games differently.

[Dostoevsky]

Thanks to 1.3 getting an experimental period there are also already multiple mods allowing one to craft the barrels themselves.

(I'm also a person who just sets up a perimeter wall with some fortifications and avoids bunkering too deep, and pretty much avoid mortars entirely.)

[scriver]

Do enemies not already target walls and such as it is (unlike how it is in DF, where they are indestructable)? I've build some undermountain/cavern colonies and I feel like I had raiders bashing up my vents and getting into my ventilation passages. Maybe vents doesn't count as walls for the attacking AI? Or did I just fabricate those memories?

I'm not too averse to tunnellers (whether they target built walls or natural rock formation) I just hope they target walls first -- ie if I have a Fallout Vault-like situation where I have an entrance that I've walled off, they -- at least as long as they're not mechs -- should preferably try to cut through there rather than just straight mining in from the side. Then again there was already both attack-crash pods and mortars for breaching built walls and roofs, so maybe it's only the natural rock tunnelling that is relevant to this addition.

[Iceblaster]

I don't really mind tunneling enemies, as Forsaken says it means I don't really have to gimp myself defensively, and it means that I have to actually consider defenses. Sure a mountain base is more secure on average, but if I'm too close to the edge it's likely they might try and smash down a wall and bust in to whatever room is closest to there.

There's annoyances, yes, but I think it does mean gameplay isn't just sit in a mountain and occasionally have a chokepointed raid.

[Damiac]

Do enemies not already target walls and such as it is (unlike how it is in DF, where they are indestructable)? I've build some undermountain/cavern colonies and I feel like I had raiders bashing up my vents and getting into my ventilation passages. Maybe vents doesn't count as walls for the attacking AI? Or did I just fabricate those memories?

I'm not too averse to tunnellers (whether they target built walls or natural rock formation) I just hope they target walls first -- ie if I have a Fallout Vault-like situation where I have an entrance that I've walled off, they -- at least as long as they're not mechs -- should preferably try to cut through there rather than just straight mining in from the side. Then again there was already both attack-crash pods and mortars for breaching built walls and roofs, so maybe it's only the natural rock tunnelling that is relevant to this addition.

You know, in my experience they will tunnel into your base already with sappers, I've done a few mountain bases and... I'm pretty sure I remember raiders tunneling through quite a bit of rock to get to me. Of course the big downside to mountain bases is the infestations can be rough... But I do think it's probably the easiest base type to defend.

[scriver]

Do enemies not already target walls and such as it is (unlike how it is in DF, where they are indestructable)? I've build some undermountain/cavern colonies and I feel like I had raiders bashing up my vents and getting into my ventilation passages. Maybe vents doesn't count as walls for the attacking AI? Or did I just fabricate those memories?

I'm not too averse to tunnellers (whether they target built walls or natural rock formation) I just hope they target walls first -- ie if I have a Fallout Vault-like situation where I have an entrance that I've walled off, they -- at least as long as they're not mechs -- should preferably try to cut through there rather than just straight mining in from the side. Then again there was already both attack-crash pods and mortars for breaching built walls and roofs, so maybe it's only the natural rock tunnelling that is relevant to this addition.

You know, in my experience they will tunnel into your base already with sappers, I've done a few mountain bases and... I'm pretty sure I remember raiders tunneling through quite a bit of rock to get to me. Of course the big downside to mountain bases is the infestations can be rough... But I do think it's probably the easiest base type to defend.

I actually wrote that originally but then I went "nah that can't be it, I must be misremembering things". I'm glad to see there's others with the same memories as me thoguh

[forsaken1111]

I've had sieges nearly starve to death tunneling through granite mountains and reinforced walls. Hopefully these new ones will be better at it.

[Lidku]

Tunneling siegers is something DF really needs and has been suggested for many times I believe. DF have building destroyers some siege factions can deploy, but a subterranean killzone entrances easily solve that.

[Mephansteras]

Different design philosophies.

Dwarf Fortress is about the rise and probable fall of a Fortress, but the intent is that it is the Player's actions that should ultimately determine if a Fortress falls. Some people don't want that and the ability of tunnelers to change the map ruins those players intentions for their Fortress. Toady respects their intentions and has not yet decided on how he can both do that and allow tunnelers for those who want them.

Rimworld is actively a story generator and by default gets harder and harder until you fail. The whole point of Rimworld is that the world does not care about your intentions, and you succeed at them only in spite of the efforts of the game. So terrain-changing units fit that philosophy easily.

There are solutions that DF can take, of course. But they simply haven't bubbled to the top of Toady's do list.

[Vivalas]

Not a fan of more mobs that dig through walls.

Yeaaah. Rimworld is great and Tynan seems more than competent at game design, but god is his obsession with rendering static defenses and even somewhat relatively stable bases useless annoying. The mortar change too... eugh. But overall, the expansion looks like it could be great! Though I feel the same as forsaken here -- if it's just "click this button to make your people okay with [warcrime]" then I'm going to be disappointed.

To the contrary, I've never quite understood the appeal of killboxes and turning your colony into glorified tower defense. Maybe I'm just a more hardcore "losing is fun" type enjoyer but that just seems boring to me. Rimworld is actually probably my favorite colony builder for the changes Tynan makes to shake up the defense meta, since it feels like real people are trying to outwit me and gank me and not just run non-stop into my traps.

If that's your piece of cake I think there's plenty of mods probably to make raids more casual

[forsaken1111]

I will say that I hate the change to mortars. It feels like a gamey hamfisted fix to a problem that wasn't really a problem, and now we have the weird situation where we can make spaceships and high tech armor and stuff but... not mortar barrels?