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[Yoink]

So Rock,Paper,Shotgun put Rimworld in the center of a very ugly shitstorm. The developer didn't help by losing his temper in the comments (Somewhat justified, I think).

Bahahaha! This is like the videogame journalism equivalent of a "slow news day" with a generous sprinkling of kneejerk Tumblrina BS to give it some extra post-2010 zest.
I can tell these comments are going to be an amusing read, despite having only started to scrape the surface.

[Aseaheru]

I think its this one. At least this one has the bit about "the dev wanting to have editorial control" stuff.

[Malus]

As someone who backed the Rimworld kickstarter on day 1, I am absolutely disgusted by these sexist game mechanics the game's creator has gone out of his way to include in his product. And how dare he not represent bisexual men properly. I've played over 300 hours of this filth and while it's never affected my enjoyment of the game, I cannot in good conscience continue supporting this developer or his products. I'd issue a chargeback, but I've missed the window by about 700 days. Dammit.

[thvaz]

Yeah...

I disagree with the dev's politics, but I think that article really dials it up to 11. Half the people I know would agree with him.
The closing shot about editorial control seems petty to me, because so far as I can discern he simply didn't want his quotes altered.
Demonisation of conservatives really frustrates me.

I wonder how big this will blow up?

I do consider myself a libertarian, but this SJW bullshit is getting far out of hand in my opinion. "Hey, this game tries to model human relationship in a mostly ok way!""It doesn't fit perfectly into my world view, BURN HIM"

[Aseaheru]

 They even gave the code that one needs to change to fix that! Or, most of it, since theres no stuff for going "This person doesent like me, Im gonna stop hitting on them" provided.

[Broseph Stalin]

The article definitely came from a bad place and they got all hot under the collar ascribing malice to some bad balancing but honestly I think Tynan kind of fucked up here. It looks like he took great pains to model relationships in a specific way. I get unfininished code, and that's not something to get upset about even if it makes for bad implications but a lot of the stuff they're upset about is stuff he did on purpose. He sat down and decided that men and women were going to calculate attractiveness differently, that women weren't going to try to initiate relationships much, and that men weren't bisexual. He said (of the relationship system) that "It’s never been intended as any kind of accurate or even reasonable simulation of the real thing." He then said that he based the decisions on personal experience (every bisexual man he knew coming out as gay) and academic research. Keep in mind, this doesn't add much to the game there are no interesting mechanics these features open up that will create an interesting story. Despite his almost certainly apocalyptic quest to simulate the entire universe Toady decided to code relationships as 75:20:5 5:20:75 story over. It's hard for me to look at all this and not think without thinking that he put a lot of personal importance on having things work this way.

[Tiruin]

Woah, reading the article looks a ton more like misinterpretation and the notice of making a conclusion on what's given--there should've really been better wording in communication with the author (as noted in the comments, there's a lot revolving around the idea of 'edit' when 'edit' wasn't really clarified given both sides moving towards contextual interpretation...that doesn't seem clearly stated directly).

That said, it seems...really like miscommunication given the theme of 'story-generator' being a root cause :/ So it then comes off that 'these variables in the code seem to have been made for that', and the rest is association and connection. (And in part of the commentary received to the developer...it seems his research on gender and stuff comes from only a handful or one predominant culture given the studies he's working with. >.<). It's a ton less 'any malice at all' and a ton more 'incomplete knowledge base probably?', but the perception of each others' writing seems to be connected to some kind of concept that the other is writing something with "implied" details...where making implications don't really need to even apply because it's in the need of communication. Hence miscommunication.
But I did notice where the article shifted between analysis of code...and the lacking notice of 'probability instead'. The wording appears too rigid. (Which gives the impression that the article is lacking, but there is the question on why the code was as is? But then open communication seems confusing given what was written x_x I don't understand much about what's going on.)

Also the 'academic studies' given are distinctly noted to not be general for the world population at large. That too. That's the importance of why specifics are noted in academic research along with the importance of the sample population and its own reasoning for being a sample. To avoid generalization, implied or otherwise. [Not everywhere is the culture of one country, even if the country may be made from a dynamic population]

But it seems many conclusions are being drawn in that news article that would be better off being noted as 'work in progress' rather than 'hidden motive in the making'. It's incomplete, and thus lacking (or a skeleton build which is always open to modification). x_x

[Retropunch]

Firstly - and lets make this real clear for everyone that's not quite sure on how this works as some people seem to be getting this wrong -  THIS IS HIS GAME AND HIS STORY AND HE CAN DAMN WELL TELL IT HOW HE WANTS. This isn't 'politics' or him getting on a soap box and saying 'women should be like x and men should be like y' he's just telling a story.

Which brings me onto my next point, THIS IS A GAME ABOUT COLONISTS IN SPACE FIGHTING ROBOT CENTIPEDES. In his version of space, this could be how the human race has evolved. Who'd like to contest that? Anyone want to say that his version of space colonies is quantifiable wrong? Maybe in the future that's just how relationships will work - relationships are a hell of a lot different from 100 years ago.

Next, in regards to his bisexuality comment, you can't dispute anecdotal evidence by the virtue that it's anecdotal. If I have only seen white swans, I'm going to have white swans in my book when I write it. Someone shows me a black swan, then I might include a black swan - might not though, as most that I've seen are white. Sure, I disagree with it, but then I see point 1 and 2 and have a good think.

This would be different if he set out to make the most accurate humanity simulator, but he didn't. Not even close. Anyone who has had their opinion changed by this is a serious problem for humanity.

[Edmus]

Tynan's even said he's going to fix the lack of bisexual men in the next patch anyway.

[Malus]

He sat down and decided that men and women were going to calculate attractiveness differently, that women weren't going to try to initiate relationships much, and that men weren't bisexual.

Well, women don't initiate relationships much, judging from the research. OKCupid found that men are significantly more likely to send the first message to prospective romantic partners. And men overwhelmingly prefer women younger than them, while younger women prefer older guys and older women prefer men younger than them.

The bisexual thing was pretty clearly just not implemented yet and is actually already in the next alpha.

The other misunderstanding seems to be, Rimworld agents aren't people. They don't have desires or preferences. They act on probability and rolls of the dice. I actually disagree with this design decision (I think it'd be more interesting if Rimworld did it the DF way and rolled personality characteristics for everyone, but that's from more of a high-minded "wouldn't it be nice if..." line of thinking and not taking into account actual gameplay considerations: it's more satisfying intellectually if you know it's all being simulated under the hood, but does it really matter in terms of gameplay?) but Tynan's elaborated on his design philosophy in a number of interviews and blog posts: he's entirely focused around what the player perceives.

In gameplay terms, the systems, the numbers, the probabilities are all just a way of making things more interesting and telling more interesting stories. It's less interesting if gender is irrelevant and everyone is bisexual. It's less interesting if age is "just a number". It's easier to relate to these pawns and form these stories if they approximate social values and behaviours that are familiar to us. I think some of the numbers are flawed if they're outright eliminating possibilities (older women never pursuing much younger men is a huge issue, likewise men never pursuing much older women) but seeing that 90% of your colonist's relationships are started by men makes the 10% that aren't more interesting.

[Tiruin]

Firstly - and lets make this real clear for everyone that's not quite sure on how this works as some people seem to be getting this wrong -  THIS IS HIS GAME AND HIS STORY AND HE CAN DAMN WELL TELL IT HOW HE WANTS. This isn't 'politics' or him getting on a soap box and saying 'women should be like x and men should be like y' he's just telling a story.

That's what everyone here gets or at least that's how I interpret everyone else posting as of late because of the reactions and stuff. And that one's judgement to another is better off concluded in mutual communication, that even if this person may look like 'eh, I may do this but...', it doesn't mean that they won't...because this is thought about later on rather than when there is needed to be a statement.

But yeah.

This would be different if he set out to make the most accurate humanity simulator, but he didn't. Not even close. Anyone who has had their opinion changed by this is a serious problem for humanity.

The climate here is a lot less harsh because of this, and it may not really help with that last sentence there when you mean 'please avoid making harsh judgement when the theme is respect instead', because it may come off as judging in the same, but less to the what the person is working with and more to the person themselves given that 'anyone'.
People can make 'mistakes' with their opinions. They don't become problems for humanity just because of these mistakes, because perception and the concepts one works with are very flexible.

He sat down and decided that men and women were going to calculate attractiveness differently, that women weren't going to try to initiate relationships much, and that men weren't bisexual.

Well, women don't initiate relationships much, judging from the research. [research links, etc]

Specifics
The researches provided are limited in that they don't define the population or gender as a whole. It's even explicitly stated in the 'research' itself that it isn't to be used as an accurate cover in general x_x

[anexiledone]

RPS definitely sensationalized what could have easily been an article explaining how it works in the game.

The gist of the article is "I see relationships like this in my life, but it's not that way in the game and that's sexist." followed by "He shouldn't make a system based on what he knows because he's wrong, he should make it based on what I know because I'm right."

All of this could have been solved by interviewing Tynan, instead they took the route of all modern shit journalism. Tomorrow will probably have an article of "10 reasons why Millennials don't like Madden"

[IronyOwl]

It’s anger-farming, combined with a moralistic witch hunt. It’s the worst kind of click-bait – they type that generates anger on purpose, where none needed to exist, in a community that was perfectly at peace beforehand.

Sums it up pretty well I think.

Yeah.

Sad thing is this will probably just give RPS more pageviews, rewarding them for their 'quality journalism'.

Aaaaaaaand now I regret reading the article. Thanks, Obama.

The article definitely came from a bad place and they got all hot under the collar ascribing malice to some bad balancing but honestly I think Tynan kind of fucked up here. It looks like he took great pains to model relationships in a specific way. I get unfininished code, and that's not something to get upset about even if it makes for bad implications but a lot of the stuff they're upset about is stuff he did on purpose. He sat down and decided that men and women were going to calculate attractiveness differently, that women weren't going to try to initiate relationships much, and that men weren't bisexual. He said (of the relationship system) that "It’s never been intended as any kind of accurate or even reasonable simulation of the real thing." He then said that he based the decisions on personal experience (every bisexual man he knew coming out as gay) and academic research. Keep in mind, this doesn't add much to the game there are no interesting mechanics these features open up that will create an interesting story. Despite his almost certainly apocalyptic quest to simulate the entire universe Toady decided to code relationships as 75:20:5 5:20:75 story over. It's hard for me to look at all this and not think without thinking that he put a lot of personal importance on having things work this way.

It's wonky and bizarrely specific, but I don't see a reason to get upset about that. Toady's weapon/material system is hideously complex and doesn't work, but nobody's going to argue that angry political bullshit about him denigrating the effectiveness of bronze is kind of understandable.

Firstly - and lets make this real clear for everyone that's not quite sure on how this works as some people seem to be getting this wrong -  THIS IS HIS GAME AND HIS STORY AND HE CAN DAMN WELL TELL IT HOW HE WANTS. This isn't 'politics' or him getting on a soap box and saying 'women should be like x and men should be like y' he's just telling a story.

Which brings me onto my next point, THIS IS A GAME ABOUT COLONISTS IN SPACE FIGHTING ROBOT CENTIPEDES. In his version of space, this could be how the human race has evolved. Who'd like to contest that? Anyone want to say that his version of space colonies is quantifiable wrong? Maybe in the future that's just how relationships will work - relationships are a hell of a lot different from 100 years ago.

Technically everything is just telling a story. That doesn't mean there's no political stuff in any of them.

Next, in regards to his bisexuality comment, you can't dispute anecdotal evidence by the virtue that it's anecdotal. If I have only seen white swans, I'm going to have white swans in my book when I write it. Someone shows me a black swan, then I might include a black swan - might not though, as most that I've seen are white. Sure, I disagree with it, but then I see point 1 and 2 and have a good think.

This is a good point, though.

...or it would be if the issue was something about reality and not vague tribal hatred.

[Tiruin]

RPS definitely sensationalized what could have easily been an article explaining how it works in the game.

The gist of the article is "I see relationships like this in my life, but it's not that way in the game and that's sexist." followed by "He shouldn't make a system based on what he knows because he's wrong, he should make it based on what I know because I'm right."

All of this could have been solved by interviewing Tynan, instead they took the route of all modern shit journalism. Tomorrow will probably have an article of "10 reasons why Millennials don't like Madden"

Huh ._. I thought they did interview Ty but there was miscommunication because of how the author wrote 'edits', and a load of misinterpretation later on (especially the article wording being lacking in a big way) and instead the focus was on 'no edits instead' so a mistake on the editor/article writer for not clarifying their point.

[Malus]

The researches provided are limited in that they don't define the population or gender as a whole. It's even explicitly stated in the 'research' itself that it isn't to be used as an accurate cover in general x_x

How would you model it, then? Certainly in the Wild West fiction Rimworld draws much of its inspiration from, relationships are usually initiated by the men. For what it's worth, I don't think the exact numbers really matter -- I think it's more important that the numbers feel believable, and in that regard, I think Rimworld models things quite well (admittedly as a cis/hetero white male in a Western country).