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[motorbitch]

having an final goal is a great decission i think.

"real" sandbox games without a defined end always reach that point where i dont play anymore, but only watch borred as everything works like a clockwork. yet i cant make myself to end it and start from the scratch. often this is where i stop playing a game entirely.
having a forced end on the other hand always makes me feel a bit sad if i end a game, very much like im sad when i finish a book.
but it also gives the opportunity to have a new great game.
also space ship end yeah \o/

[CognitiveDissonance]

The problem with DF has always been that once things are going well, there isn't much to do.

I'm approaching this problem from two angles.

First, the AI storyteller. The Storyteller will watch what's happening in the game and toss in whatever combination of incidents have to happen to keep it interesting. So if you somehow end up with some hyper-defended mega-fort, we might just see a solar flare to shut down your defenses, a plague, a crop blight, combined with a couple strong raids. Anything to keep the story from stagnating. And this is done adaptively, so you don't get rolled over if you're a newbie or already on the ropes.

Ideally the storyteller will knock you down and up but usually not kill you. Losing itself isn't fun - what's fun is the paroxysms of drama that come beforehand. What if you could have those but not quite lose most of the time?

The second element is the endgame, which is that you build a ship and escape the planet. This means collecting lots of tough-to-get resources by trading, theft, construction, research, etc and assembling them into the ship.

I really want to do some drama at the end of the game where not all the colonists can go, or really bad things start happening just as you approach the finish line. Again, this is all storyteller-driven. Because that's how real stories work best - great challenge near the climactic finish line. No reason we can't generate that adaptively in a simulation.

Thanks for the questions and support everyone! It really does help after so long working alone to see that someone sees some potential in this.

Thanks for the response! This has got me wondering about something else - will this be variable? One of the best things can be that when things to bad, they go worse and then even worse. I'm worried that the storyteller would even that out too much...

[wer6]

Why not having multiple endings? If your ship is really prepared you return home, only to find out something has destroyed it, and then WHACK! the monster comes in, destroys your ship and A peace falls down landing on another planet/ home-planet, closing that ending and allowing you to do A different ending

Another ending might be that your ships fails critically and is doomed to float for eternity/ it crash's into another planet, depending on how it is

If you have A super defended fort thats leaving quickly, you might be chased to "fight" the enemy's, giving you A couple choices and A small animation showing what happens, or your ship was tracked down for the rest of your life,Or why not in one fo the endings instead of turtling, you lash back out, with your entire military, killing the raiders when there weakest, and then making your "stranded" fort into A colony, Going into A "peace".etc etc, these are just off the top of my head, so you might just find em all!

[motorbitch]

no matter if i have the choice to crash again or not, i would prefer for the end to be a real end, and the new game to be a new game.
higscores would be neat, too.

[wer6]

Or why not simply add A new mode once you get out, called "landing" where you get to choose A certain amount of equipment,im programming illiterate but i'm pretty sure this could be coded in.

[Sharp]

Well this isn't so much a colonising game as it is about surviving, at least that appears to be the premise, if your original survivors just crash again then I assume it just gets easier 2nd time round as they will be all skilled up so if anything the game gets easier.

High score would probably be best but for replayability it just needs lots of events which can randomly occur to try and make each playthrough unique. More variation in planets, alien life-forms, robots, planet of zombies because why not.

[TynanSylvester]

having an final goal is a great decission i think.

"real" sandbox games without a defined end always reach that point where i dont play anymore, but only watch borred as everything works like a clockwork. yet i cant make myself to end it and start from the scratch. often this is where i stop playing a game entirely.
having a forced end on the other hand always makes me feel a bit sad if i end a game, very much like im sad when i finish a book.
but it also gives the opportunity to have a new great game.
also space ship end yeah \o/

I'm hoping we can have games that are both long and interesting.

The idea with the AI storyteller is that she can put just the right events into the game to keep it interesting indefinitely. So you never end up entering a boring, super-stable state where nothing touches you. She'll realize that and use something (plague, meteor, crop blight, special invaders) to keep the story interesting.

Why not having multiple endings?

Something to consider! I'll work on having one ending for now, but multiples is a future possibility of course. I like the idea that you really author your own ending instead of selecting it from a list; where your launching conditions and who you get out makes your conclusion to your story.

I'd like to avoid scoring mechanics. I want to focus on the game as a story generator, not a contest.

[ductape]

First, the AI storyteller. The Storyteller will watch what's happening in the game and toss in whatever combination of incidents have to happen to keep it interesting. So if you somehow end up with some hyper-defended mega-fort, we might just see a solar flare to shut down your defenses, a plague, a crop blight, combined with a couple strong raids. Anything to keep the story from stagnating. And this is done adaptively, so you don't get rolled over if you're a newbie or already on the ropes.

Ideally the storyteller will knock you down and up but usually not kill you. Losing itself isn't fun - what's fun is the paroxysms of drama that come beforehand. What if you could have those but not quite lose most of the time?

I like this idea of the AI throwing some bones in to help build you up after a big crash. Often, when you have a major wipe or downard spiral, folks tend to quit and maybe even save scum if thats an option. Eliminating that tendency simply by making the crash and buildup more fun and meaningful is awesome.

And not easy mind you, just you know in the back of your head that the game is aware that you are in a spiral or something and it's doing it's best to make the narrative story be interesting.

[Iceblaster]

It'd be interesting if the game was able to turn these seemingly random events into a flowing story... though I'm sure it'd be hard the code, but hey speculation.

[Elfeater]

For combat, will your people be on par with the enemies, better, or worse? Or does that depends on a mix of settings? Such as what you set the game difficulty to initially?

[ductape]

It'd be interesting if the game was able to turn these seemingly random events into a flowing story... though I'm sure it'd be hard the code, but hey speculation.

not entirely far fetched, given we tend to create narrative around random events with DF anyway.

Just pick a couple standard plot lines, maybe there only one anyway. Then break it into categories of events, have some dependencies  and prerequisite events here and there but not too many. Cycle through them moving through the plot until the climax and ending.

Mind you, these are simply events, environmental or social, that happen procedurally. We write the narrative.

[TynanSylvester]

It'd be interesting if the game was able to turn these seemingly random events into a flowing story... though I'm sure it'd be hard the code, but hey speculation.

I want to put in some displays and systems to help people perceive story-like cause and effect. For example, a graph of population, records of events, etc. Or something like the Civ4 endgame replay of civilization borders.

But I think ultimately most of the actual storytelling will be in your head. I call this apophenia and I've written about it here: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TynanSylvester/20130602/193462/The_Simulation_Dream.php

[ductape]

Also, a good point of insipiration might be the AI of AI War by Arcen Games. In there, we KNOW the causes and effects, it's in fact a legit game mechanic. It provides for a pretty unique gaming experience.

I wonder in what ways having the player aware of methods of affecting the AI might be interesting, in a game of this type.

These are thoughts I have had before related to game design, not just this game and I am sure you already have a fairly developed vision for your project. Just throwing it out there.

[TynanSylvester]

Also, a good point of insipiration might be the AI of AI War by Arcen Games. In there, we KNOW the causes and effects, it's in fact a legit game mechanic. It provides for a pretty unique gaming experience.

I wonder in what ways having the player aware of methods of affecting the AI might be interesting, in a game of this type.

These are thoughts I have had before related to game design, not just this game and I am sure you already have a fairly developed vision for your project. Just throwing it out there.

I'm actually really interested in the idea of characterizing the AI Storyteller and even having her communicate with you on a meta-level.

Can she be "angry" that you've defied her? Can she have something good or bad planned? Can she tell you about it? All questions I'm interested in.

[Tellemurius]

Oh god an interactive GLADOS