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Author Topic: item quality questions from noob  (Read 780 times)

Norville J

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item quality questions from noob
« on: September 15, 2013, 07:08:25 am »

So I'm still really new and trying to figure it all out.  Trying adventure mode recently and I guess I'm just a little too used to +3 wobulator in other games.

Finally found a shop and looking at what was for sale I realized I don't know what I'm doing...

I'm trying to get my head around the difference in item quality (value?) and understanding the pros and cons of each piece of gear.  Reading the wiki and forums and every time I think I'm getting somewhere I come across a different list...  It's getting muddy and I could use a hand long story short....  (I mean long story short I could use a hand  :P  )

Using my current situation:

I'm assuming the black bear leather anything beats my rope reed fiber anythings..  and I have this blue shark leather dress in the middle of it all that I can't seem to find anything on...

Is there a big simple list or spreadsheet for this kind of stuff I'm missing? or just a rule of thumb that I skipped over?

Thanks for any advice!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 08:58:02 am by Norville J »
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Drazinononda

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Re: item quality questions from noob
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2013, 08:53:02 am »

Here's the thing: DF materials are all templated. Black bear leather is just as good as blue shark leather is just as good as capybara leather, because they all use the Leather template for the material properties. Some of them are more valuable than others, but that's a function of the source, not the inherent properties. E.g. unicorn products are more valuable than dog products, but not more useful.

Same with cloths made from wool, silk and plant fiber, each of which has its own template for material properties. Silk behaves differently than cloth, but otherwise it doesn't matter what kind of silk or cloth. Bone, shell and horn/hoof are all based off the bone template (at least I'm fairly certain of that). Any two woods are the same and any two stones are the same, with the exception of density (which currently only effects collision physics and weight).

Concerning worn items specifically, metals are where material starts to become important. Each metal in the game is modeled as realistically as possible concerning hardness, brittleness (for [MAX_EDGE] purposes) and density. So for weapons1 and armor you should use steel whenever you can find it, or iron when you can't find steel (i.e. pretty much all the time) and you should avoid copper and silver if at all possible2.

The other factor you should pay attention to is Item Quality, which is actually a value recorded in the game. You'll notice that some items are a -silk sock- or an *iron helm* or whatever; those surrounding symbols are a marker of the quality of the item. Any two -Iron Spear- in the game will be functionally identical (decorations make no difference except to look pretty and cost more, so they can be ignored) but an +Iron Spear+ will be better than any -Iron Spear-.

I hope that helps... kind of a wordwall but then again, if you don't have the patience for reading, you probably won't like DF much...

P.S. It took me waaaay too long to figure out what a "hand long story short" is and how I could give you one.

1 This goes for edged weapons only, as softer metals don't hold an edge well and thus make inferior slashing/piercing weapons. For blunt weapons -- or for that matter, blunt attacks with edged weapons (such as pommel strikes) -- all metals are pretty comparable, with copper and silver having a very slight edge. Pun very much intended.
2 Even for adventurers with decent Strength and/or Dexterity, a full set of copper armor can actually be a liability: adventuring often leads the player into scenarios where they are outnumbered, in which cases the ability to make a fighting retreat is invaluable; being encumbered by armor means not only that the wolf pack or goblin ambush or whatnot you're up against gets more attacks against you than you get against them, but you won't have the option of stringing them along and fighting one at a time. They'll swarm you and surround you, which no amount of armor will counteract. If all you can find is copper, it may be better to limit yourself to a helm, shield and breastplate/mail shirt.
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RageBob

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Re: item quality questions from noob
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2013, 09:00:56 am »

Reply considered as useful, 9/10 would reread and recommend.

We newbies could use a chart on which metal is better for which too.
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Norville J

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Re: item quality questions from noob
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2013, 09:09:25 am »

I've edited it... lol  I just got off a 12 hour shift so my thoughts get ahead of my typing.

Appreciate the response.  So leather is leather. cloth is cloth.

Leather is always better than cloth, true?  as any metal would be better than leather.. right?  I realize what you are saying about the copper and silver, so taking that into consideration with the metal>leather>cloth statment.

thanks.
 

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TheDorf

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Re: item quality questions from noob
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2013, 11:17:18 am »

I've edited it... lol  I just got off a 12 hour shift so my thoughts get ahead of my typing.

Appreciate the response.  So leather is leather. cloth is cloth.

Leather is always better than cloth, true?  as any metal would be better than leather.. right?  I realize what you are saying about the copper and silver, so taking that into consideration with the metal>leather>cloth statment.

thanks.

Metal > leather > cloth is true if you ignore the speed loss, yeah. Personally, I would recommend using leather because of it's light weight, possibly using a metal helmet to protect your brain (after a few deaths in adventure mode, you'll know what I mean).

Also, something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that shields either block or fail to block, so a leather shield is just as good as a copper or steel shield, except for when you're bashing skulls in with it.
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AJC

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Re: item quality questions from noob
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2013, 11:21:51 am »

although some non metal things do have special properties like (Cave)Dragon leather being fire proof although the only real way you'll be getting some of this is by adventuring to a abandoned fort that had some (Cave)Dragon leather cloths made also it's the most reliable way to get steel weapons/armor for a adventure player is also the same going to a abandoned fort that had some when abandoned.
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chevil

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Re: item quality questions from noob
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2013, 12:07:46 pm »

For a comparison of metals check out this.
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duckman

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Re: item quality questions from noob
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2013, 06:22:00 pm »

I've edited it... lol  I just got off a 12 hour shift so my thoughts get ahead of my typing.

Appreciate the response.  So leather is leather. cloth is cloth.

Leather is always better than cloth, true?  as any metal would be better than leather.. right?  I realize what you are saying about the copper and silver, so taking that into consideration with the metal>leather>cloth statment.

thanks.

The only cloth that's better than leather is silk iirc. It's only really good enough to block copper and silver blades though, and when it does, it doesn't stop the blunt impact from smashing your bones.
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