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[callisto8413]

I was just wondering.  Anybody ever just design a surface city?  With walls, pastures, farm land, buildings and use the lower levels just as...well, mines?   

[Greiger]

Some have.  Hell, I even proposed such a challenge game during the last days of 2D when we learned of all the cool things we'd be able to do with constructions (then called rewalling)

I never got around to doing the challenge myself, but I'm certain I've heard of other people doing similar things.

[Scruffy]

I have not really made any cities but I have made above ground fortresses on multiple occasions. Usually just something like a 3-4 block wide multilevel walls with small storerooms and guardshouses and a bigger central fort.
Building huge towers is fun (though you have to be careful with the 15z build limit) but building big sky fortresses is frustrating because those damn dorfs can't be assigned to build larger areas of floors/walls without caving something in. And since constructed floors don't stop caveins it can mean that you will end up with a really deep hole and other caveins. (For example when the dorfs manage to cave in a small piece of floor on the peak of the tower and punch a hole in 18zlevels of constructed floors until it finally reaches solid ground and lands on the outpost liason.)
Also, building large above ground buildings take alot of rock/blocks and if you want them to be the same color you will have to dig loads of stone like when building a megaproject.

Having to construct floors takes surprisingly large amounts of blocks and time. For example, remember those standard 11x11 storerooms we all dig underground? 121 floors and 48 walls(or stairs or floors for walls). Yep, one 11x11 room (13x13 with walls) takes 169 blocks and 169 masonry jobs and those damn buggers need you to order them to construct it in smaller segments. Then start building a 10z building with 4 such rooms in each floor and extra corridors between each room. Tedius but rewarding.

I suppose that proper towns or cities would be easier and more fun to construct. Less levels and more separate buildings. I have to try it

[Apani]

I rather build realistic, sober medieval-looking buildings. If you have a look in my album in my signature, you can see what kind of buildings I like to make. It's very easy to build them, in fact most of those buildings were quickly constructed at the start of the embark (and then abandoned...)

[Crinkles]

If you're going to build a surface city, I still recommend building storehouses and such underground. It's not like humans don't have cellars! And you will probably want a dedicated quarry somewhere.

[Telgin]

The last two forts I made were above ground, and I actually prefer it that way.  It's pretty fun, but has two major drawbacks: it takes a lot more time to build anything, and it's a lot less secure.  In particular, I have tremendous problems with kids getting kidnapped even with a moat to keep thieves out.  They're just stupid and wander outside too much.

I have dedicated quarries and an underground cellar for food and drink storage, but everything else is above ground.  The homes I usually build in an apartment like fashion of five or so strung together and sharing walls, and will stack them on top of each other 2-3 z-levels to make better use of space.  Other buildings are usually just placed wherever I can find space, though I try to keep the dining hall close to the homes.  Workshops usually end up pretty messily placed wherever I have room.

That's the biggest challenge: with only 1 real z-level to work with, you can quickly build yourself into a corner without space to expand like you want.

[Apani]

On my last embark I was attacked by a swarm of Buzzards and Gnolls. No choice but to dig a shelter. I usually play Kobold Mod, so I could actually build an above ground town with another above ground town in an underground artificial cave below. I'd just have to make it look natural.

[dwarfhoplite]

I've tried this several times. The problem is that you can't build houses fast enough for migrants. At 200 population I usually have houses for some 30 or fewer dwarfs. The process of building houses is just frustratingly slow and stupid.

[Apani]

It should be like in minecraft, where each block is placed instanty. Digging to building speed ratio is ridicolous. And let's not talk about REMOVING constructions. What are your houses like, anyway?
Here is what condom/inn flats could be like:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[BigD145]

If you're going to build a surface city, I still recommend building storehouses and such underground. It's not like humans don't have cellars! And you will probably want a dedicated quarry somewhere.

I've done single homes above ground and multistory apartments with basements for personal food/drink storage. It does take awhile to build even with small 4x4 interiors. I do include stairwells for multistory buildings, compete with doors and/or hatches so I can abuse burrows and locking hatches in emergencies. Having a personal cellar makes seiges more bearable. You can always dig an escape tunnel. If in dirt they can farm for themselves in their own basement.

[Keldane]

The quote in my signature actually stems from a challenge dedicated to building an above ground settlement with the twist that industries are 'owned' by nobles, and each noble may only own a single industry. As a general rule, you need someone for the crop farming industry (planting, harvesting, brewing, plant processing) and someone for the logging industry (cutting down trees, carpentry, wood burning, wood crafting) right off the bat. It's up to you how you divide and categorize the industries, and that's usually how I do it. The challenge also includes rules like 1z depth for basements, and they may only have a footprint the size of the building above them. If you've already built a successful above-ground fortress, I'd recommend clicking the link (the quote's from the first post in the thread) and giving the rules a look over.

[callisto8413]

I've tried this several times. The problem is that you can't build houses fast enough for migrants. At 200 population I usually have houses for some 30 or fewer dwarfs. The process of building houses is just frustratingly slow and stupid.

Yes, finding that out.  I have designed a Dwarf Fortress in which I wanted to have three classes.  Those who live on the surface - farmers, woodworkers, animal trainers, so on - which are Surface Dwellers.  Than those I call the Stone Class - think middle class folks such as miners, metal smiths, gem cutters - anybody who deals with stone, metal, or highly skilled artists.  They live in the fortress, with bedrooms and a dining room, in which I try to assign each a table and a cabinet. Then the Administrators, who ALL have large apartments - bedroom, private dining room, and office - live deeper down.   

It is not going well.  The outside buildings are barely finished by the next wave of Dwarfs - many still are missing walls and all are filled, wall to wall (or empty space), with beds.  The roofs are put up faster than the walls in some cases!  There is one small outside diner.  A few of the lower class were allowed to have beds inside - in the pig pen.  HEY!  Those pigs are valuable!  They should be happy to be roomies with such wealth! 

The Lower Class workshops are outside and open to the rain and snow.  I would put roofs over them but, to be honest, it would take up more time and labor than I am willing to give.  All the important workshops (those manned by the Middle Class) are inside anyway.

The problem is there is so many projects (the need to put up those buildings) that many other projects are just not getting done.  Some of my Administrators are still waiting to have their rooms engraved and I don't have enough tables for the Middle Class dining area!   Tsk, tsk!   Also, I am trying to build protective walls - decided to kill all my large livestock and keep the sheep, chickens, and pigs (the last two moved into the Fortress) - which as you can guess it going SLOWLY.  On the other hand the fields, both inside and outside, are well attended - we must have six farmers!  And when our rangers are not training they are hunting deer, wolves, and so on.  We have lots of food and drink but every job, every project, is never fast enough.    

My great hall has been dug out but there is nobody to work on it!  Oh the horror!   

In other words....kind of realistic.  Had three Dwarfs go insane and die because I just did not have the material they needed when they slipped into those strange moods.  If this was a normal Fortress I would be getting bored by now!   

[Telgin]

Slowing down immigration is a must.  I've embarked with two skilled carpenters and a modded in sawmill that produces 4 wood planks (blocks) per log, and even with that it takes forever to get housing for just the starting 7 set up.  I started with a pop cap of 20 and used DFHack to enforce that immediately upon starting the game, even if that might not be strictly necessary.  I then gradually raised the limit by 10-15 as I prepared housing ahead of time.

The good news with .34 compared to .31 at least is that most immigrants are married, so you usually don't have to build quite as many houses as in previous versions.

[sackhead]

clay is usefull as it is unlimited

[callisto8413]

The good news with .34 compared to .31 at least is that most immigrants are married, so you usually don't have to build quite as many houses as in previous versions.

That's bad news.  It means people who are Middle Class are living with Lower Class wives and husbands.