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[Parsely]

Yeah this isn't done yet. You can sign up for the prototype turns though!

Summoner Types - Shows what sort of traits your summons have -->[]
Divine - Appeal to high gods to be granted control over their subjects. [versatile, righteous, loyal]
Unholy - Appeal to low gods to be granted control over their subjects. [corrupting, malevolent, traitorous]
Necromantic - Reanimate bodies vacant of their souls with dark energies or other souls. [survivable, weak, obedient, unintelligent]
Elemental - Create avatars using the raw elements [powerful, unintelligent, selfish]

Spoiler: Character Sheet (click to show/hide)

Name: A name and then an adjective or noun; EX. Rose the Sun-Struck
Gender: Male, female or androgynous, if you are ethereal or phantasmic or a construct or otherwise.
Type: Your summoner type here~
Appearance: Describe what you are. If you are mortal or demi-mortal you must be human.
Background: Describe your career as a summoner.

Prototypers: scapheap, mastahcheese, Cheesecake
Contributors: Escaped Lurker



Brainstorming Section - Suggestions and ideas welcome.
I thought about maybe giving units a range and when a summoner attempted a summon, I'd roll a die for it, and the result would be the number of that unit they would get.

Example: PC Necromancer Leonid - SUM: Norm. Skeletons [1-100], Norm. Zombies [1-50] - UNIT: 456 Norm. Skeletons, 123 Norm. Zombies
Summon Normal Skeletons.

[d100]--> +57 normal skeletons
---

Then perhaps you could have 'mutations' to upgrade these base units.

Example: PC Necromancer Leonid - SUM: Norm. Skeletons [1-100], Norm. Zombies [1-50] - UNIT: 513 Norm. Skeletons, 123 Norm. Zombies - MUT: Brute Zombies [1-10]
Mutate Norm. Zombies~ Brute.

[d10]--> +4 Brute Zombies (-4 Norm. Zombies)
---

100 Mana Max   1 Mana=1 Summon   Average +10 Mana each turn
10 Energy Max   3 Energy=1 Upgrade   Average +1 Energy each turn
1 Upgrade=Tier Increase
5 Energy=1 Evolution   Evolution=+2 Tier Increase+custom special ability permanently added to unit type; 40% chance failure; if unit is at maximum tier, creates a new tier
---

This would work perfectly if I could figure out how these units' stats would work out.

The thing that's keeping me from finishing the game really is the numbers part of it: how do I quantify these resources (favour for the first two and mana for the next two) as well as the lands and structures they have in a way that's fair and balanced? This is always where I hit a wall with complicated games. I hesitate when it comes time for me to turn everything into concrete values. Is it possible for me to just fuck the numbers and the dice and still make a fun game? Is there a simpler way that I can do this using straight dice that still has depth?

[scapheap]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Name: Clair the Kid/Richard the New Blood
Gender: Female/Male
Type: Unholy/not a summoner
Appearance: A red haired 8 year old kid with green eyes./A mostly human teenage with brown hair and red eyes. He has horns and wings.
Background: A small human girl who made waves in the underworld when she bound a bogeyman to her will with no training. A young incubus who, unlike the others who tried to kill her before she grew too strong, decided to train her. They seem to have a little sister/older brother relationship.

[IronyOwl]

I can probably help, but I'd need to know more about exactly what kind of a system you're going for.

It's definitely possible to just sort of fudge things and still come out with a fun game, but it tends to be a bit trickier than when you plan everything out ahead of time. Moreso the more competitive a game is, too.

It's almost certainly possible to find a simpler system than the one you've got going/are planning, but simpler tends to mean less interesting and doing less of what you want.

[mastahcheese]

YES.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Name: Cromwell Jackson the Awe-Inspiring
Gender: Male
Type: Elemental
Appearance: A tall, lanky human.
Background: A man who's been focusing his might for years, finally ready to unleash upon the world.

[Parsely]

I can probably help, but I'd need to know more about exactly what kind of a system you're going for.

I want each summoner type to have different pros and cons when it comes to the way they build their army. Example: necromancers need corpses to make their units and so are slightly restricted in their base unit types, but they have lots of potential mutations and high survivability; perhaps as a SPECIAL when they win a battle a portion of their units lost are returned.

I want the ability for the player to give his existing units upgrades. A divine player can turn his Lesser Angels into Valkyries, for example.

I want the players to be able to war against one another. I don't plan on having a map, and I don't really want a map. The players don't need to have a base, just an army with a large variety of units.

That's all. Ask any more questions you need to and try to take a few liberties with how you interpret my words. I'll help as much as I can! It's tough trying to walk that line between complexity and simplicity/accessibility/effort/fun.

[escaped lurker]

I want the ability for the player to give his existing units upgrades. A divine player can turn his Lesser Angels into Valkyries, for example.

How about these resources that are used in summoning having a "hidden" value;? Let us go with 1 Mana being 200 - these 200 are the number of stat-points they will "buy". If a Unit has a special ability, this obviously would go into the same pool.
"Energy" - or whatever resource you need to upgrade units - would work the same way, but let us limit it to 125 with wich additional and new stats / skills are bought.

Character-stats like magical potency could act as a multiplier of sorts - talking about single-digit % here, whereas wisdom could put a limit on the number of points you can affect - or rather, act as another multiplier to it.

[Parsely]

I want the ability for the player to give his existing units upgrades. A divine player can turn his Lesser Angels into Valkyries, for example.

How about these resources that are used in summoning having a "hidden" value;? Let us go with 1 Mana being 200 - these 200 are the number of stat-points they will "buy". If a Unit has a special ability, this obviously would go into the same pool.
"Energy" - or whatever resource you need to upgrade units - would work the same way, but let us limit it to 125 with wich additional and new stats / skills are bought.

Character-stats like magical potency could act as a multiplier of sorts - talking about single-digit % here, whereas wisdom could put a limit on the number of points you can affect - or rather, act as another multiplier to it.

Hm. Can you give me some examples for this? Also, how would players gain mana and energy?

[Cheesecake]

PTW and probs join later.

[escaped lurker]

how do I quantify these resources (favour for the first two and mana for the next two) as well as the lands and structures they have in a way that's fair and balanced? This is always where I hit a wall with complicated games. I hesitate when it comes time for me to turn everything into concrete values. Is it possible for me to just fuck the numbers and the dice and still make a fun game? Is there a simpler way that I can do this using straight dice that still has depth?

Ah, misread the first sentence here. Disregard energy then. Hm.. how about something akin to these stats then;?

Spirit: Increases Maximum Mana / Favour
Wisdom: Gives Bonus to Upgrading
Potency: Gives Bonus to Summoning
Health: Not only the bodily kind - Increases Mana-Regeneration

Depending on what program you use, the Boni could be issued as a simple +1 per point, or even another dice alltogether. The important part is that they directly influence how many points will be gained from the mana/favour.

So, lets take the example of
"Elemental Fire-Duke Th'riwe", with presumed 15 starting points and d100 rolls
Spirit: 3 = mana x2
Wisdom: 2 = boni
Potency: 6 = boni
Health: 4 = regeneration 1:1, HP 1:10

Spoiler: Aand it turns out to be a bad idea. Abandoning this Mana has points of itself-system. (click to show/hide)

He has 6 Mana, and expands 3 of them for summoning Lesser Mud-Elementals (20 Points each)
He rolls a 70. Wich means he would gain 140 per mana (currently held at 200 points). Since his potency is 6, he however gets 146, and thus 441 Points in total. Which simmer down to 22 Lesser Mud-Elementals.
Thr'iwe then decides to expend his next 3 Mana on upgrading them into "normal" Mud-Elementals (15 Points each).
He rolls a 40, and his Wisdom adds a measly 2. (Nerfing Upgrading to 100 Points for this). He gets 126 points, enough to upgrade 8 into Mud-Elementals.

Hmm.. yeah. This system is broken already. The problem is to align the regeneration, as 1 health currently counts for 200 "Points" per turn... lemme see..

Once more;
"Elemental Fire-Duke Th'riwe", with presumed 15 starting points and d10 rolls. Mana holds no points in itself - rolls alone decide. Yay!
Spirit: 3 = mana x2
Wisdom: 2 = Indicator
Potency: 6 = Indicator
Health: 4 = regeneration 1:1, HP 1:10

Expanding 3 Mana for Lesser Muddies, still 20 points.
Rolling a presumed 5. 5x6 = 30 - x3 = 90. Th'rwive gains 4 Lesser Muddies.
Expanding 3 Mana for Upgrading them, still 15 points.
Rolling a presumed 10. 10x2x3 = 60. We ... upgrade all 4, because we are on a high-roll!
Rerolling a presumed 1. 1x2x3 = 6. Spell fickles, we curse our luck.
As incentive for upgrading, how about we use two more sides for upgrading? There needs to be some bonus to upgrading, else people will only mass-summon weaklings. Actually, the minions Health / Endurance having a dmg-reducing effect could cancel that out...

So yeah, it would be very dice-heavy on results, but them and the stats would decide it. Would keep it somewhat simple thou. Also, calling dibs on Thr'iwe.

[scapheap]

Made my sheet.

[Parsely]

"Elemental Fire-Duke Th'riwe", with presumed 15 starting points and d10 rolls. Mana holds no points in itself - rolls alone decide. Yay!
Spirit: 3 = mana x2
Wisdom: 2 = Indicator
Potency: 6 = Indicator
Health: 4 = regeneration 1:1, HP 1:10

Expanding 3 Mana for Lesser Muddies, still 20 points.
Rolling a presumed 5. 5x6 = 30 - x3 = 90. Th'rwive gains 4 Lesser Muddies.
Expanding 3 Mana for Upgrading them, still 15 points.
Rolling a presumed 10. 10x2x3 = 60. We ... upgrade all 4, because we are on a high-roll!
Rerolling a presumed 1. 1x2x3 = 6. Spell fickles, we curse our luck.
As incentive for upgrading, how about we use two more sides for upgrading? There needs to be some bonus to upgrading, else people will only mass-summon weaklings. Actually, the minions Health / Endurance having a dmg-reducing effect could cancel that out...

I need to stare at this for a few hours before I can fully digest it. It's a bit tough but I'm sure I'll figure this out. >.>

[escaped lurker]

"Elemental Fire-Duke Th'riwe", with presumed 15 starting points and d10 rolls. Mana holds no points in itself - Rolls and attributes decide. Yay!
Spirit: 3 = Indicator for maximum Mana 1:2*
Wisdom: 2 = Indicator for Upgrades*
Potency: 6 = Indicator for Summons*
Health: 4 = Mana regeneration per turn 1:1*, HP 1:10

Expanding 3 Mana for Lesser Mud-Elementals, Cost 20 points each unit.
D10 - Rolling a 5. 5x6 Potency = 30 - x3 Mana expended = 90. Th'rwive gains 4 Lesser Mud-Elementals.
Expanding 3 Mana for Upgrading them, Cost 15 points each unit.
D10 - Rolling a 10. 10x2 Wisdom x3 Mana expended = 60. We ... upgrade all 4, because we are on a high-roll!
Rerolling a 1. 1x2x3 = 6. Spell fickles, we curse our luck.

I need to stare at this for a few hours before I can fully digest it. It's a bit tough but I'm sure I'll figure this out. >.>

Here is hope you did not start to stare yet. But yeah, an explanation on my part would have been nice. Maybe. 
Anyways, now it is in place. Or so I hope ;3

The basic thought beyond the idea is, that our Attributes dictate how well we can summon, what our maximum mana is, how fast we regenerate - and an additional one to make upgrading a different thing. Not truly needed, but I thought it might add something. Actually got the basic idea from that chaos-magical RTD...

Anyways, since I plainly love the random element that dice bring, they - together with the attributes - decide how many "Points" worth one would be able to summon / upgrade. After thinking about it further down, adding bloody sacrifice / strain that damages the body, would also make for a nice mechanic.
Said Points wich are worth the Units total Attributes + Abilities.

Actually, the "Wisdom VS Potency" - or rather "Upgrading VS Summoning" - could add one of those racial differences that you seek. Let us presume that there would be loosely 5 Tiers of strength for the units - Which would bring me to this example;

Divine - Can summon Tier 1-3. Tier 4-5 only through upgrades[/b].
The gods do not hand out their favour lightly, and it is nigh impossible to summon their strongest agents at once. Empowering one to be such is the safer bet.
Unholy - Can summon Tier 1-2 with mana. Tier 3-4 upgrade-able with Mana. Tier 5 is only summonable, and needs the additional sacrifice of health.[/glow]
Casting forth servants of the lesser gods is not all that a challenge. Empowering them for greater purposes is. But unleashing their highest servants, is a dangerous gamble - and a hazardous bargain.
Necromantic - Can only summon Tier 1 Corpses, and Ghosts of Tier 3. Everything else is upgrades.
A corpse is just that, and can't be raised to be more as that. The Necromancer needs to strengthen them with magic to gain greater effects.
Elemental - Can summon Tier 1-3 with additional sacrifices of health. Upgrades cost only mana.
The Elemental Planes are not easily breached, and the strain of it is not to be underestimated. Luckily, once on this plane, strengthening them is only an act of strength.

As I see it, this setup would force the different races to also play quite differently - at least already with obtaining their armies. The later can obviously also severly influence the gameplay, but that is another story. Anyways; Necromancers are unable to raise mighty armies out of thin air; Servants of the lesser Gods will never sport many Tier 5 Units, or will have difficulties to do so; Elementals will do their utmost to limit their summoning, resulting in somewhat small but elite groups - and lastly the servants of the higher gods will play, well... somewhat "normal". Only that they aren't.

Hmhm. Well, thats as far as my idea goes / my current view on the fluff. Would make sense, at least in my eyes. ;3

[Parsely]

Sounds interesting. Could you give me some base stats for each sorcerer type?

---

Actual mana system plus separate energy stat for effecting upgrades and possibly using unique spells (which is where players will get the chance to make up some of their own cool stuff):

100 Mana Max   1 Mana=1 Summon   Average +10 Mana each turn
10 Energy Max   3 Energy=1 Upgrade   Average +1 Energy each turn
1 Upgrade=Tier Increase
5 Energy=1 Evolution   Evolution=+2 Tier Increase+custom special ability permanently added to unit type; 40% chance failure; if unit is at maximum tier, creates a new tier

[Cheesecake]

Spoiler: Konstantin (click to show/hide)

Name: Konstantin the Beyond
Gender: Formerly Male, now Androgynous.
Type: Elemental
Appearance:
Konstantin bears many scars from attempts of breaching the Elemental Plane, and lost his arms and his left leg as a result. He replaced them with body parts used for golems, but his physical appearance is that of a male in his thirties.
Background:
Konstantin worked as a private elementalist and studied on various ways of entering the elemental plane. His career ended with the use of his limbs, and they cast him out on the street. He sneaked in back into the lab and used his powers to attach the golem limbs to his body.

Hey, Gunin, do you already have a plot or backstory or do you need help with the fluff? Cuz I could help with that, if you'd like.

[Parsely]

Hey, Gunin, do you already have a plot or backstory or do you need help with the fluff? Cuz I could help with that, if you'd like.

Just ideas, nothing substantial though. What did you have in mind? PM plox.