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Author Topic: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?  (Read 10944 times)

Footkerchief

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2013, 02:09:40 pm »

http://www.destructoid.com/why-there-hasn-t-been-a-kickstarter-for-dwarf-fortress-249023.phtml
Quote
"A Kickstarter isn't really in the cards -- I've kind of been doing a slow-motion Kickstarter for the last seven years," he said. The game is free to download and play, and all Tarn asks is that players donate if they enjoy it."People send us however much money they want, we send them rewards and then we keep working."
[...]
The only other person working on the project is Tarn's brother, Zach, and they don't really want to add more employees. "I'm not sure what I'd do with a sudden cash injection -- neither of us want to manage employees. That's the most significant obstacle."
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Ranold

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2013, 03:47:44 pm »

Uhm.. Does that mean that, Toady lacks qualification to lead real project or just don't want to play with others?
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Witty

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2013, 04:07:14 pm »

just doesn't want to play with others?

Pretty much. It's his project, and he has made that clear numerous times. Tarn does not enjoy others helping him program.
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Quote from: Toady One
I understand that it is disappointing when a dwarf makes a spiked loincloth instead of an axe.

Ranold

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2013, 04:55:17 pm »

Like I said before I can understand this sentiment. For the last several years he had a steady job and is planning to bank on it for the next thirty years, why would he want to mess with that... Faster game development and/or focusing on specific will drain this ore vain faster and in this economy it would be hard to find on another such a niche hit, so that you can be your own boss with steady pay...

However, this suggestion is not about Tarn sensibilities with working with others or his paycheck, its about making the best game. Time constraints is a common brought up in suggestions and if time is an issue this is a way to make Tarn vision that much faster, without compromising. Many would want to see more time put in specific features, I would be happy to donate to help push several features, as opposed to current state where the new version change log is less exciting than many mods...
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Witty

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2013, 05:14:12 pm »

Like I said before I can understand this sentiment. For the last several years he had a steady job and is planning to bank on it for the next thirty years, why would he want to mess with that... Faster game development and/or focusing on specific will drain this ore vain faster and in this economy it would be hard to find on another such a niche hit, so that you can be your own boss with steady pay...

However, this suggestion is not about Tarn sensibilities with working with others or his paycheck, its about making the best game. Time constraints is a common brought up in suggestions and if time is an issue this is a way to make Tarn vision that much faster, without compromising. Many would want to see more time put in specific features, I would be happy to donate to help push several features, as opposed to current state where the new version change log is less exciting than many mods...

I agree.  It is no real secret that the way Tarn develops the game is pretty inefficient and leads to more problems for us players in the long term. Personally, I would just love to see some bugs from the old 2D days finally fixed. But, that just isnt going to happen. What's next on the dev list depends on what Tarn wants and is interested in at that moment (night creatures, realistic geology, etc.). I just don't see Tarn having the same motivation to continue DF if he's working for donation pleas rather than his own will. Also, I disagree with the notion that the DF project is about making the "best game possible". It's about making the game Tarn wants, first and foremost.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2013, 06:01:43 am »

We just had a conversation about this.

Why oh why do folks get a hair up their butt, thinking they're delivering a divine truth and uplift the community and ToadyOne up the mud of ignorance that crowd sourcing exists and that other folks can code.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131456.0 Last post, 16 days ago.
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Sizik

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2013, 10:47:01 am »

FYI, this thread was necro'd from nearly two months ago.
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Ranold

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2013, 12:59:27 pm »

Like I said before I can understand this sentiment. For the last several years he had a steady job and is planning to bank on it for the next thirty years, why would he want to mess with that... Faster game development and/or focusing on specific will drain this ore vain faster and in this economy it would be hard to find on another such a niche hit, so that you can be your own boss with steady pay...

However, this suggestion is not about Tarn sensibilities with working with others or his paycheck, its about making the best game. Time constraints is a common brought up in suggestions and if time is an issue this is a way to make Tarn vision that much faster, without compromising. Many would want to see more time put in specific features, I would be happy to donate to help push several features, as opposed to current state where the new version change log is less exciting than many mods...

I agree.  It is no real secret that the way Tarn develops the game is pretty inefficient and leads to more problems for us players in the long term. Personally, I would just love to see some bugs from the old 2D days finally fixed. But, that just isnt going to happen. What's next on the dev list depends on what Tarn wants and is interested in at that moment (night creatures, realistic geology, etc.). I just don't see Tarn having the same motivation to continue DF if he's working for donation pleas rather than his own will.
On the contrary, something like that will allow Tarn to focus on what he is motivated about, leaving others to help him maintain what he isn't e.g. bug hunting as you suggested or other aspects. As for the later, like I said

Also, I disagree with the notion that the DF project is about making the "best game possible". It's about making the game Tarn wants, first and foremost.
I didn't suggeted otherwise, like I said its just a way to make Tarn vision that much faster, without him compromising on it. Though, It should be noted, that even though this game is Tarn's baby, the reason for its success is in large part due to the community. People here supported the game and put up endless hours into testing, developing Mods/Tools, writing Guides/Wikia or simply sharing the fun on this forum.

Which is why I am not a fan of the 'time constraints' or 'just an alpha' excuses. Tarn said he has a thirty years development plan and lets be practical most people here will develop new interest and life constraints much much sooner than that. If development time can be shortened I support it, even if it means Tarn getting out of his comfort zone and working with others, after all the people here are more than just temp glorified alpha testers.

We just had a conversation about this.

Why oh why do folks get a hair up their butt, thinking they're delivering a divine truth and uplift the community and ToadyOne up the mud of ignorance that crowd sourcing exists and that other folks can code.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131456.0 Last post, 16 days ago.
For the same reason people are getting righteous indignant each time this topic is being brought up. If concerns over development brought up so frequently, maybe its time to stick one thread in discussion. (I came here through a link, after using search).
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MrWiggles

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2013, 09:40:16 pm »

FYI, this thread was necro'd from nearly two months ago.

Really? God damn it.


We just had a conversation about this.

Why oh why do folks get a hair up their butt, thinking they're delivering a divine truth and uplift the community and ToadyOne up the mud of ignorance that crowd sourcing exists and that other folks can code.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131456.0 Last post, 16 days ago.
For the same reason people are getting righteous indignant each time this topic is being brought up. If concerns over development brought up so frequently, maybe its time to stick one thread in discussion. (I came here through a link, after using search).

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100506.0
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Ranold

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2013, 11:10:32 pm »

Obviously, if this topic brought up every couple of weeks, then people in this community feel this is a matter of concern which require further discussion and folks who don't add anything of value to the discussion, only attempting to dismiss it by "get[ing] a hair up their butt, thinking they're delivering a divine truth", repeating Tarn's official position or noting similar discussions which have taken place before(if its a new thread use search, if you use search its a necro.. catch22). So please be mindful of the topic and avoid unrelated ones.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 01:34:11 pm by Ranold »
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Footkerchief

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2013, 02:42:58 pm »

(if its a new thread use search, if you use search its a necro.. catch22).

There's no catch-22.  New threads and necroing are both generally fine as long as the poster is making a sincere attempt to bring something new to the discussion.  Unfortunately, on this topic, most don't.
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tootboot

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Re: Crowdfunding? Nope. Donate!
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2013, 04:29:14 pm »

But not all is lost: look at the 3rd party utilities, especially the development of dfhack in the past year or so. They are close to adding full graphics support, lighting system, the GUI is much better then ever, etc. All done for free by the community. Some -official- support by Toady would be great, maybe a little incentive could help the wheels turning a little faster (doubt it), but it will get there on it's own eventually.

Just curious what's being referred to here by 'full graphics support' and 'lighting system'?  I hadn't heard of any utility adding anything like that.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2013, 05:07:01 pm »

Obviously, if this topic brought up every couple of weeks, then people in this community feel this is a matter of concern which require further discussion and folks who don't add anything of value to the discussion, only attempting to dismiss it by "get[ing] a hair up their butt, thinking they're delivering a divine truth", repeating Tarn's official position or noting similar discussions which have taken place before(if its a new thread use search, if you use search its a necro.. catch22). So please be mindful of the topic and avoid unrelated ones.
Vocal minority maybe? Most of the folks that make these threads are folks with new accounts. In this thread, it was by someone with a new account and in thread I linked, it was also a new account.

If they did bother to do any search, they either did it poorly or ignored it. Even a google search, not the forum search, will bring up relevant interviews or forum threads.

So yea, it must come as a revelation that these things exist and that ToadyOne is blatantly unaware. They bring in the community by making it a forum post.
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fricy

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Re: Crowdfunding? Nope. Donate!
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2013, 05:27:21 pm »

But not all is lost: look at the 3rd party utilities, especially the development of dfhack in the past year or so. They are close to adding full graphics support, lighting system, the GUI is much better then ever, etc. All done for free by the community. Some -official- support by Toady would be great, maybe a little incentive could help the wheels turning a little faster (doubt it), but it will get there on it's own eventually.

Just curious what's being referred to here by 'full graphics support' and 'lighting system'?  I hadn't heard of any utility adding anything like that.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94528.0

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=128487.0

tootboot

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Re: Crowdfunding for specific features / faster development?
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2013, 08:19:12 pm »

If they did bother to do any search, they either did it poorly or ignored it. Even a google search, not the forum search, will bring up relevant interviews or forum threads.


Or they're just hard headed like this guy and refuse to believe it after multiple people explaining why it's not going to happen.
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