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[mirrizin]

So, I've been playing for a while, and enjoying the game. I sometimes find myself looking at the "favourites" in df map archive with some curiosity. Sadly, the place feels like a museum because the most recent additions were made a couple years ago. I wonder if there was a golden age that I somehow missed.

Another thought is that I've gotten pretty good at building a stable, sustainable fortress using a standard layout, more or less one recommended by the tutorial. It's efficient, and with a few curves can even be elegant, but it also seems kind of boring. And when I look at the older ones there's such variety: Tunnels this way, that way, 3D landscapes, ramps, spirals...etc.

And I look at the standard layout, and I find it hard to imagine how one builds out from that into something magnificent. And one thing I've learned is that if you don't establish a lot of basic things very quickly the fortress is very vulnerable. But once the basics are established, how do you build out? How does one shift from a tidy survival-at-all-costs kind of place into something the likes of a FlareChannel Undergrotto or BustSculpted? (just to name a few, the third is a personal favorite)

[WanderingKid]

Those maps, I believe, were mostly from when a number of new items were introduced and everyone was scrambling to deal with it.  Also, there weren't tutorials like Captain Duck's out there.  These days that's more streamlined.

As to shifting internal gears in a fortress, my usual method is this:
First, build what you need.
Next, build what you wanted, and abandon the original.  Mine it out into a giant tomb for the king or something.

[evictedSaint]

From the very start, I designate my entire fortress the way I want it to be dug.  Dining room, workshop areas, kitchen, waste pits, dorms, hospital, barracks, king throne room, food stockpiles, raw and finished good stockpiles, catacombs, jail, fortrifications, entrance, killing pits, arena, etc.

Then I block off connections so that high-priority areas are dug out first. As stuff gets mined out, I open up further designations.  This way, I have a grand scheme, but immediate necessities are built first.

[flameaway]

Yeah I agree with WanderKid.  The first hole you dig doesn't have to be a central part of a mature fort.  It can be an abandoned hole.

As far as the sameness in designs.  I think some of that arises from the power gaming attitude -- trying to get the most from every click type of thing.  And this game probably has more than it's far share of power-gamers, so things tend to get standardized around certain playing styles.  I'm also thinking that frame-rate considerations play into this for many people.  Building efficient production facilities means less materials used, easier pathing and prolly a bunch of other stuff I haven't considered.

On the other hand, I can see the appeal of using DF to build an art project.

As far as breaking out of one routine and into another.  Maybe it would help if you started considering the essential industries as modules like mister or a DWR. Then you figure that you have an initial colonization phase that involves setting up a worksite.  A temporary worksite that needs certain modules to be effective.  The temporary worksite doesn't have to be perfect it's just the first step in building your actual fort.

You also might try spending more time in preplanning your forts once you see the embark site.  Draw up a plan of action that builds toward larger projects.  When you do this you'll find yourself stepping through planned actions and won't be so apt to get caught up in the "I'm just finishing this one last thing before I start the mega-project" blues.  Or getting diverted into a bunch of experiments or something.  Build to a plan is what I'm saying.

[flameaway]

Screwup

[flameaway]

D.P.

[flameaway]

Error

[flameaway]

Not sure what's happening with my posting.

Things got out of hand for a second. 

My apologies.

[WanderingKid]

As far as breaking out of one routine and into another.  Maybe it would help if you started considering the essential industries as modules like mister or a DWR. Then you figure that you have an initial colonization phase that involves setting up a worksite.  A temporary worksite that needs certain modules to be effective.  The temporary worksite doesn't have to be perfect it's just the first step in building your actual fort.

I like this thought.  Not sure if any of y'all have ever worked a serious construction site (mining, skyscraper, whatever) but there's the idea of the pre-build (pick a name, any name...).  All the pre-build exists as is a place to keep your tools and shade your employees(sic) in between work efforts.  Reality is that they're relatively small (and come pre-fab these days) but the first area of your fort should really be considered as this.  It's just a place to keep the workers safe and happy in between the construction of the actual fortress.

[Iceblaster]

I usually build in a space efficient design over a good looking design(though I try to do that sometimes)

While I don't have a screenshot on hand right now, I can tell you that I usually put furniture storage stockpiles in those 1xX hallways left during designation so that my overwhelming supply of doors can be stored without cluttering my mason shop.

[mirrizin]

Thanks for the thoughts. I didn't make the connection between the great old forts and new tech. And yeah, I can see how well paved roads mean fewer people feel the need to hack through the wilderness.

[Snaake]

I put most of my essential industries just on the surface initially. Once I did start a massive obsidian-cube-casting megaproject, in that game I picked a small hill made of soil as my initial home. Hollowed out the central part, removed ramps on inside and outside. This gave me a walled off area a bit over 10*10 tiles IIRC, plus "walls" 4-10 thick that I could dig some initial rooms in. From there the plan was to keep on living in that Hillfort, or as I liked to call it, mudfort, for the first years, until the first part of the megaproject would be hollowed out and I could make some temporary setup there (using the finalized room layout, but would then rearrange workshops etc. one more time for the actual, final version).

Or you could initially build a work camp on the surface, with dorms and basic industries. Use wood and/or stone (blocks). Build another floor upwards for storage/room, or just use the workshops themselves for storing the end products. Works for most workshops for a while, if you don't order large amount of furniture or something.

The benefit from either of the above is that once you remove all the constructions or channel away the hill-fort, and the grass, shrubs and trees regrow, that part of your embark will look just like any other part that you haven't touched. Well, you might be missing a hill, but noone else will know that.


Or, like others have said, you could designate the more interesting layout right off the bat, and just have storage, workshops etc. out in the hallways for a while. Workshops are also pretty easy to move around, and you don't *have* to have stockpiles for everything before you actually streamline production chains and such.

[thoushaltcallmelars]

Well, if you desire excitement, we're just a few hundred layers down, and we have vacant tents available!

If that fails to tickle your fancy, then consider these options of fun-generation:
 - Shut down the hippies' protests for us, as they're rather annoying. Beware, when hippies riot, they riot, and there may be disgruntled archers within the angry mob.
 - Do as the Bronze Colossi do, and exterminate the humans! Testing has revealed that this will not invoke the ire of what we can only assume is a vampire with access to free cosmetic surgery, but it will invoke the ire of the humans themselves.
 - Wait around awhile, one of our loose pets may find its way to you. Or a dozen of them, we're really not sure since they live a rather long time (that is to say, an eternity).

With Warm Regards, Ringmasters Shift & Seven