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[Tiruin]

...Yeeeaahh that still doesn't make sense how you worded

@Imp: The only example that comes to mind is bsnott's recent situation. If he was scum, then he just threw away the game.
HOWEVER, something just occurred to me: bsnott can still be scum, but only if you are scum as well.

Imp's reasoning for bsnott being indubitably town made sense at first. If Imp was lynched, scum wins. By bsnott extending the game, he effectively prevented scum from winning then and there. But there is a problem with this:
If Imp is scum, then it is still entirely possible for bsnott to be scum, as that means that bsnott was not preventing scum victory, but assisting it.

How did he effectively prevent a scum win? As in, effectively?
And that also means he was trying to save a buddy because of the carpy reasons people put on Imp at the time, huh? PS: Check his votes before that.

I think you're just confusing me now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the situation as I understand it: According to Imp's argument of bsnott's innocence, by extending bsnott prevents Imp from being lynched by extending. If he was scum, he could have not extended, letting Imp get lynched and winning for scum.
The problem comes in when you consider this: If both Imp and bsnott are scum, then this proof falls apart, and becomes a convenient way to declare one scum as town.
I'm really not sure how much clearer I can make this.

...So you think that bsnott isn't scum perfectly because he did the right thing a player would do-extend the game so he/she can learn, huh. That's a pretty superficial idea.
I've stuff in another post on this, but it'll come later.

Puff

Obviously there is going to be misunderstandings. Deathsword is not here for me to ask him about it.

But I am. And I ask, once again, the following which you somehow missed.

So why did you FoS her anyway?

What is your intent in doing such? Why so?

Your response is..

I was still assembling my case against her.

Really? You could've just voted her instead.
I will ask once more.
Why.

Next:

Pufferfish: Can you summarize your case on Imp? Let's say this is a regular game and the whole audience is looking at said case to better expound on brevity-in-context. What'cha think on what would apply and appeal to the rest.

You've laid out the context-what is your jurisdiction and/or response?

Could you give your piece of mind on her responses to me and vice versa? What is your take on us?

In fact, you even say "I'm town" once. That was D3. Today. lylo. Saying "I'm town" isn't as impressive as "I'm the cop". But it's still roleclaiming. And you've been doing it subtly for a while.

This could better be made if you linked the note instead of shouting it out as a generality.
Let's roleclaim and say I'm town.
I'm town~~
But even if she's been saying it (I mean, nothing wrong with saying it. Everyone, as is the general notion and as from traditional teaching, should be 'town'.) what's wrong with it? Is she pushing it DOWN YER THROAT? D:
No. No she ain't.

Yonder case above is based on that note where you spoilerrifically touch DeathSword, yet it is fraught with more of the feeling of 'I show you details, discuss' instead of 'I have evidence pertinent to this case which gives me x conclusion and forwards this train of thought to be true'.

The case at hand.

And, looking back, you were the main reason Kleril, a vanilla town, was lynched. After he unvoted you. Why did you change your mind about him after he unvoted you?

Back it up. You're accusing Imp because she lynched Kleril after he unvoted her?

BSnott:
Wow my list was bad. Sounds like you can't make it tomorrow at all but I must ask in case I survive:
What is (was) your case on me?
I'd still like to hear the answer posthumously in case I'm dead by the time you read this. Because this looks like a pre-emptive bandwagon to me.

...You do know that if you're town, and if you're dead, then the game's over and up right? And how is something a 'pre-emptive' bandwagon there? Why aren't you attacking the post instead of detailing one of the probable inferences that comes because of it.

..Hah, pre-emptive bandwagon.

Why do you think I am scum? What made you think this could be a bus manouver?

Probably when I've noted the malevolent silliness which came with your predecessor's vote, and the follow through by your buddy bro. Continued there, and here, with a correction being I did not notice (failed to actualize..) that Imp shifted her vote when talking about the whole Darviness back then.

[Gentlefish]

@Tiruin:
I'm gonna try to answer this tonight, but please forgive me and point out what I forget. It's late.

Puff

Obviously there is going to be misunderstandings. Deathsword is not here for me to ask him about it.

But I am. And I ask, once again, the following which you somehow missed.

So why did you FoS her anyway?

What is your intent in doing such? Why so?

Your response is..

I was still assembling my case against her.

Really? You could've just voted her instead.
I will ask once more.
Why.

In simplest matters, I was suspicious. That's what I assumed the FoS is for. I was suspicious but I wasn't confident enough for a vote. Now I am.

That's how my brain worked anyway.

Next:

Pufferfish: Can you summarize your case on Imp? Let's say this is a regular game and the whole audience is looking at said case to better expound on brevity-in-context. What'cha think on what would apply and appeal to the rest.

You've laid out the context-what is your jurisdiction and/or response?

Could you give your piece of mind on her responses to me and vice versa? What is your take on us?

In fact, you even say "I'm town" once. That was D3. Today. lylo. Saying "I'm town" isn't as impressive as "I'm the cop". But it's still roleclaiming. And you've been doing it subtly for a while.

This could better be made if you linked the note instead of shouting it out as a generality.
Let's roleclaim and say I'm town.
I'm town~~
But even if she's been saying it (I mean, nothing wrong with saying it. Everyone, as is the general notion and as from traditional teaching, should be 'town'.) what's wrong with it? Is she pushing it DOWN YER THROAT? D:
No. No she ain't.

Roleclaim:

This matters because I know I'm Town, and because of bsnott's actions when Scum could have won the game, I know he's Town.  There's only three Town left, and I know who two are.  That's big to me.  That gives me GREAT hope, the most hope I've had since I was the blithering idiot who believed she'd spotted both Scum on D1 (and was wrong about both picks).

Spoiler: other instances (click to show/hide)

this post.

I do not know that Kleril, Scum or Town, would do this.  As Town, I believe I wouldn't do it - my dying in that circumstance gives Town more than returning us to the tie under those circumstances.  But we are possibly leaving the option in Kleril's hands as things are now.

There's three. I can hunt down the other two tomorrow if you like.

Yonder case above is based on that note where you spoilerrifically touch DeathSword, yet it is fraught with more of the feeling of 'I show you details, discuss' instead of 'I have evidence pertinent to this case which gives me x conclusion and forwards this train of thought to be true'.

The case at hand.

And, looking back, you were the main reason Kleril, a vanilla town, was lynched. After he unvoted you. Why did you change your mind about him after he unvoted you?

Back it up. You're accusing Imp because she lynched Kleril after he unvoted her?

Absolutely. Doesn't that strike you as weird?

Spoiler: some related stuff. (click to show/hide)

I'm taking a heavy gamble with this faith in you. At least for my own purposes it will help me think through the actions and motivations of at least one player. You are my mental anchor at this point, and all my thoughts on who's town and who's scum are built off the foundation that at least one person is town, them being you. I think this may help the rest of the town as well, as your trustworthiness is being backed up by whatever trust I have built up in others' minds. This means that a couple things may happen. You may be even more of a mafia target, considering you are one of the largest town contributors at this point, but on the other hand, your voice never being silenced would raise suspicion. Either way, if you survive, and you are in fact town, your contributions will pull us through this game. If you die, however, your death confirms your town-ness, and brings complete legitimacy to all your concerns. On the flip side of this faith comes the issue of my being wrong: If you are scum, and the rest of the town shares my viewpoint, we're done. Good game, handshakes all around.

Kleril is my top Scum pick.  I think there is about a 96% likelihood that he is Scum, and feel about 90% sure that I am right in my assessment of him and his play.

@Imp's behemoth attacking me:
2) This is faith I have placed in you, based on how you've been playing. I have no fact to back it up, but this is what I believe. If I had facts (i.e. if I was scum), things would be different, and this convincing would have been from post one, and not 5 or so pages in. Use your head.

3) It's day one, and where votes have been placed has been established as more of a scumhunting tool than anything. Using the votecount alone, and not the posts to justify them, is useless.

Also what in the hell is scum chat?

faith

Kleril, I really want to vote correctly.

If you are Town, simply act it....  I.E. -> DO YOUR JOB.

That way you help ensure the win for your team, no matter when or how you die.

Notice how she say no matter how or when. She used her large posts to influence a vote on Kleril.

BSnott:
Wow my list was bad. Sounds like you can't make it tomorrow at all but I must ask in case I survive:
What is (was) your case on me?
I'd still like to hear the answer posthumously in case I'm dead by the time you read this. Because this looks like a pre-emptive bandwagon to me.

...You do know that if you're town, and if you're dead, then the game's over and up right? And how is something a 'pre-emptive' bandwagon there? Why aren't you attacking the post instead of detailing one of the probable inferences that comes because of it.

..Hah, pre-emptive bandwagon.

Why do you think I am scum? What made you think this could be a bus manouver?

Probably when I've noted the malevolent silliness which came with your predecessor's vote, and the follow through by your buddy bro. Continued there, and here, with a correction being I did not notice (failed to actualize..) that Imp shifted her vote when talking about the whole Darviness back then.

Well BSnott knows where Imp's gonna put her vote And if I'm right, Squill may actually not be too far from correct, either.

Did I catch everything? If not I'll catch them all tomorrow. Tired.

[zombie urist]

Day ends Wednesday November 13th 9PM PST. ~9.5 hours from this post

Imp - Pufferfish
squill -
bsnott -
Pufferfish - bsnott
Tiruin -

Not voting - Imp, Tiruin, squill

0 to extend, 2 needed
0 to shorten, 3 needed

[Gentlefish]

Oh yeah, as and to post-mortem, this thread doesn't get locked when the game is over right? So he could still answer even after the game is over when I'm lynched.

[Squill]

..So you think that bsnott isn't scum perfectly because he did the right thing a player would do-extend the game so he/she can learn, huh. That's a pretty superficial idea.
I've stuff in another post on this, but it'll come later.

This is getting a little bit frustrating. I am not saying that bsnott is definitely town, I'm saying that IN IMP'S SCENARIO SPECIFICALLY, the logic still does not work, UNLESS WE KNOW THAT IMP IS TOWN FOR SURE. We do not, therefore IMP'S CASE IS IN NO WAY THE FINAL WORD ON BSNOTT'S ROLE. I really hope that is clear enough, because I'm getting a little bit tired of this.

[Imp]

Posting from work.  Life's rather hell right now.  I'd like another extension.

Tiruin, I'm still chewing over your answers.  I'll continue to do so today between work tasks, if there's time between work tasks, and more tonight.  I expect to be posting again tonight.  Other questions/concerns I'll address tonight as well, assuming extension allows.  Been some very interesting reading this last 24 hoursish of play.

If the extension doesn't pass, I'll be watching and placing a vote before the deadline.  I'm not placing it now because I am still not ready to move forward.

[Gentlefish]

Like I said, I'll offer one more extension. Extend. But this day has to end at some point.

[Tiruin]

Extend
Just popped in to say that.

[zombie urist]

Day extended to Friday, November 15th 9PM PST.

[Tiruin]

Oh yeah, as and to post-mortem, this thread doesn't get locked when the game is over right? So he could still answer even after the game is over when I'm lynched.

Yeah. Y'know ,I saw your earlier note as a HUGE scumslip.

BSnott:
Wow my list was bad. Sounds like you can't make it tomorrow at all but I must ask in case I survive:
What is (was) your case on me?
I'd still like to hear the answer posthumously in case I'm dead by the time you read this. Because this looks like a pre-emptive bandwagon to me.

...You do know that if you're town, and if you're dead, then the game's over and up right? And how is something a 'pre-emptive' bandwagon there? Why aren't you attacking the post instead of detailing one of the probable inferences that comes because of it.

..Hah, pre-emptive bandwagon.

Why do you think I am scum? What made you think this could be a bus manouver?

Probably when I've noted the malevolent silliness which came with your predecessor's vote, and the follow through by your buddy bro. Continued there, and here, with a correction being I did not notice (failed to actualize..) that Imp shifted her vote when talking about the whole Darviness back then.

Well BSnott knows where Imp's gonna put her vote And if I'm right, Squill may actually not be too far from correct, either.

Did I catch everything? If not I'll catch them all tomorrow. Tired.

No, wait, you never addressed it. Still, point stands as it contradicts what you said earlier here and can't be logical that you'd think that otherwise.

Unless I'm missing something. And I still can't get your pre-emptive bandwagon, and I've a feeling that you're being...intentionally picky on some of those questions. Why aren't all my questions being answered? That makes me sad.



Anyway. It doesn't get locked when game's over-no thread does unless something really bad in-game things were said and caused Toady One to bring down justice......Like in that one game wherein I'm not sure to link but it provides something VERY GOOD on where people's tongues should be and tact lines be drawn.

..Eh, so no. End-game discussion happens after game. That's when the drama unfolds, usually. And then the remarks, and pats on the back, and veiled daggers being drawn, and then hugs as we cut the cake with said daggers. 'Tis a happy community out of game, but when in-game, we go at each other's throats.

Helps attack accuracy and all that motor skill training.

[Gentlefish]

Haha, I asked you which ones I missed. Which ones did I miss, could you point them out or ask them again? I will answer them.

fake-edit OH I CAUGHT IT it just ended with a period. Heh, my NP++ only catches questionmarks.

I called it a pre-emptive bandwagon because I feel he's voting under the assumption that I -am- going to get voted on by Imp, and provided little to no explanation. I mean, I suppose I could get on his case for that. But it's hard to tear into a person without anything to sink my teeth into. Hence the leading question. I want to know his reasoning behind putting a vote on me with little explanation.

And I was hoping it wouldn't get locked, because I really would have liked to hear his answer if the day wasn't extended.

[Gentlefish]

And I'm sure I still missed one. Please let me know which.

[zombie urist]

Day extended to Friday November 15th at 11:59:59 PST.

Imp - Pufferfish
squill -
bsnott -
Pufferfish - bsnott
Tiruin -

Not voting - Imp, Tiruin, squill

0 to extend, 2 needed
0 to shorten, 3 needed

I have two big projects due Friday so notice day now ends midnight instead of 9 PM.

[Tiruin]

I called it a pre-emptive bandwagon because I feel he's voting under the assumption that I -am- going to get voted on by Imp[...]

So..you're trying to predict his move by accusing him of it and not putting anything behind it?

...Uh huh. Ok.

So your case on Imp is..well, the gist is that you think she's hiding something of malicious intent in her WoT's, and that such WoT's are a good smokescreen. Anything else I've missed?

[zombie urist]

Day ends Friday November 15th at 11:59:59 PST. ~25 hours from this post.

Imp - Pufferfish
squill -
bsnott -
Pufferfish - bsnott
Tiruin -

Not voting - Imp, Tiruin, squill

0 to extend, 2 needed
0 to shorten, 3 needed

Day ends in ~25 hours.

Everyone should post more.