@Imp:
Your first vote for RPG. You sorta just toss your vote here.
I'll write that interpretation off as a misunderstanding, rather than malicious intent.
When I say "I have no better use for my vote", I am -not- saying 'My vote doesn't have any use' or 'My vote's not doing anything so I'll go waste it'.
What is the best use for your vote - it's voting for the Scummiest person around. He's not the only Scummy person in the game to me, and he might not stay the one I'm most suspicious of - but he was the top then.
Does that make "I've got this vote and no better use for it right now." easier to understand? Yes, I did intentionally word my vote placement provocatively. I was -trying- to evoke a response.
Why don't I just ask him questions? You say you read the thread, especially his posts. Look again at his previous posts before D2 starts. Where he is answering questions, those answers are almost all either excuses why he cannot answer, claims (not followed through) that he will soon answer, or are statements that fail to answer the question that was asked.
To answer the questions directed at me real quick, though:
Top Towns and FoSs were, like I said, preliminary. I had said Mr. Zero because at the time I thought I'd spotted a post he'd made that had raised my hackles, but I can't find it now. And I can't get a good FoS anymore because of what I said above. I can't actually READ the posts in the right way. I'm not making connections and piecing it together in my head, probably because I was gone for so long
Huh. Thought there'd be more questions.
[Rolepgeek: Why? You think anyone else really wants to talk to your attitude, or because of it, you?[/size]
No. I thought there'd be more questions because I figured people would rag on me more for not being active enough.
He answers one question, and poorly. He ignores the other. It was NOT rhetorical.
Oh, and it got me pissed off as a player(OOC, so to speak) about how he was talking to Lukeinator. HEY IMP; don't tell people not to play the fucking game because you think they're playing badly. That's the point of a goddamn beginner's mafia.
Rolepgeek: I quoted the OP and then applied portions of it that were being ignored by that player with pressure. First time that's been done in a Mafia game, to your knowledge?
It was in your behemoth. The part dedicated to Luke. Where you were calling him childish, or implying it at the very least? Saying he shouldn't play until he's more mature? That is what I disliked. That is what I was calling you out on. Not the suggestion to ask for a replacement if he can't play.
Note that he 'appears' to answer. But that answer does NOT answer the question. Nor does he answer the question further on.
Post before that:
Posting to show I'm not ignoring this. Put it off too long to be able to post it tonight, but I've got the post saved on my computer. Will finish it and post it tomorrow. It has all my answers and such, and more.
It has all his answers... which are mostly explanations of why he can't answer. Why he couldn't back up his FOS and Town picks. How he can't even read the thread right, can't find what he thought he saw before.
Post before that:
Posting to show I'm not ignoring this. Put it off too long to be able to post it tonight, but I've got the post saved on my computer. Will finish it and post it tomorrow. It has all my answers and such, and more.
And more of the same - but he makes it clear he WANTS questions about his lurking. There's not much effective Scumhunting to be done in challenging someone over lurking. There's very few thoughts about the game shown in that line of questioning. That could explain why he's eager for it - and he talks about wanting to be questioned about lurking in two different posts -
@Imp, reply #209, Questions about my incessant lurking
YES THANK YOU SO MUCH
No. I thought there'd be more questions because I figured people would rag on me more for not being active enough.
So when Rolepgeek wasn't lurking, he wanted to talk about his lurking? Useless for finding Scum on either side.
So if the guy can't or won't answer questions, no matter why he can't or won't - why should I ask them? There's more than one way to attempt to get a response from someone, and I try another method. I invite interaction in a indirect fashion calculated to attempt to provoke it through any of several means.
Heck, for that matter this was already all explained in the thread, in D2 which you read so carefully, but so not impartially:
Right now it seems pointless to question you - you're claiming you can't even read the thread.
Oh, I've read most of it. That's not the problem.
I understood you were not reading the thread (staring at it sometimes, yes, but NOT reading it) because you said so, and then gave no indication until your most recent post that this had changed.
@Superblackcat, reply #176, concerning my top scums and FoS.
I'll get back to you. I need to look through the posts, and badly. Harass me if I don't get back to this.
@Persus, reply #181, multiple questions; Opinion post-behemoth, Opinions about Imp's accusations, and Reasoning for not posting
About everything post behemoth, I can't say anything yet. I still need to sweep through and process everything.
Huh. Thought there'd be more questions. Time for the more detailed sweep and cursory thoughts to answer SBC and Persus.
Alright, now for the sweep.
Ffffuuuuuu-
Of course there's too many little things I want to dig at for me to get all of them. Figures.
Posting to show I'm not ignoring this. Put it off too long to be able to post it tonight, but I've got the post saved on my computer. Will finish it and post it tomorrow. It has all my answers and such, and more.
Unless one of you knows how to copy/paste from it to my IPad, of course.
No...no, no, shit, I can't do it. I can't get the time and I'm getting too emotional to play. Well, that, and I can't get into the right mindset. I can't look deeply into posts, all I can do is stare at them. It's frustrating. I'm gonna have to ask for a replacement, sorry guys. Should have done this a while ago. I'll still answer questions and such, I just...I can't work up the motivation. Sorry. Unvote.
I can't actually READ the posts in the right way. I'm not making connections and piecing it together in my head, probably because I was gone for so long.
I don't have school tomorrow. HOWEVER, turns out I don't have extra time to do stuff, because I still have to get up at the same time.
Sorry. >.> Not planned.
I'll get back to you. I need to look through the posts, and badly. Harass me if I don't get back to this.
And then you asked for a replacement, though you said you'd still answer questions and such, then tried to do so in the same post, but you included stuff like
I had said Mr. Zero because at the time I thought I'd spotted a post he'd made that had raised my hackles, but I can't find it now
...
And nnnnnnn...superblackcat. Holy crap, I just realized. The post he had right before mine was the one I thought was Mr Zero's. Probably. I can't really tell, and I thought it had been on page 15.
...
continued tomorrow
And of course, it wasn't continued 'tomorrow', or even the day after. So I really didn't think you were up to following the thread, playing here, or answering questions. In fact, you still haven't really 'continued that'. Since you now say that's changed, sure, I'll ask some more. I do have plenty for you.
When I vote him I also say
If you're dead there's no need to replace your spot; and from close to start of play you've not really done much that seems pro-Town to me. Your behavior isn't that bad of a Scum cover either. I'm far from sure you're Scum but I'm far from sure you're Town either, so for the moment this works for me. As long as you're seeking replacement I'm not going to ask you anything.
I explain then and there that I see him as probable Scum: "from close to start of play you've not really done much that seems pro-Town to me. Your behavior isn't that bad of a Scum cover either."
I'm not convinced he's Scum, and I say so: "I'm far from sure you're Scum but I'm far from sure you're Town either, so for the moment this works for me."
When I say - "As long as you're seeking replacement I'm not going to ask you anything." Near as I can tell, his 'asking for replacement' = 'not focusing on the thread, not being 'able' to answer questions'. If he can't or won't answer questions (sure, he says he will - but that alone doesn't answer them, and he hasn't been) then I'm not going to waste my time typing them.
As SOON as he makes it clear that he's actually paying attention and interacting, I start interacting with him. I continue to match his tone and level of manners - I am NOT required to be polite to people who are impolite. HE says I did worse to him than he did to me. I don't see it that way at all. I don't disagree with you about flame war - But I was trying to Scumhunt him. I also talk about his anti-impness. I ask for anyone else to handle Scumhunting where he's concerned - no one does. I respond to this by doing the best I can to do that Scumhunting - Just because he's acting the way he is doesn't mean his role can be ignored - and if it is, and if he's Scum, then Town will lose.
Then DeathSword posts. Saying you're dropping a vote on someone asking for a replacement. Which is weird, for me at least, as someone new to the game.
RPG then replies, agreeing with DeathSword that, yes, it's a vote on someone asking for a replacement.
Scum or Town can ask for a replacement. Heck, RPG was asking for a replacement for around 3 weeks before you joined the game. The game could have ended with him still seeking replacement - that's a loss for Town if he ISN'T voted should he be Scum - and with how he was unable to track the thread, that's -also- a serious liability for Town - not that I attack him on that angle. But ignoring him was not an option.
You state that you aren't going to ask him questions, meaning you aren't looking to actually check if he's scum. For someone who's so set on scumhunting, that's a pretty odd move.
False reasoning, as explained above. I have accepted that he has been repeatedly failing to answer questions, at least well enough to function as satisfactory answers. I am set on Scumhunting - I try another method and continue to adjust.
You call Deathsword out on coddling players in one game and not giving this game much attention. This is true.
...Though you did try to call him out on being sick. Which is possible and highly likely this time of year. My partner was sick with various different bugs for three months straight last fall/winter. You try to call him out in his IC brackets when I believe the person behind the computer was legitimately ill.
Wrong, I do call him out on it - the last BM he played in, he WAS SCUM and acted extremely similarly to how he was playing here, including 'lurking because of illness'. True or false - how do you scumhunt someone who isn't here? You can't - and there he was in this game, doing it again.
You also call him "an IC jerk" for calling you out on a vote that you placed on someone calling for a replacement. Sounds a little OMGUS-y to me.
Wrong. I call him "an IC jerk" because he has used his IC voice for things which it was not intended to be used for - like excusing his absences. The IC voice is to be used to teach us how to play from a completely impartial and trustable viewpoint - period. Worse, in that BM game where he was Scum, he ALSO made inappropriate use of IC voice. It's a pattern - and that time for sure he did it really inappropriately - because he was Scum and his failure to participate adequately needed to be challenged to help identify him as such.
I establish this in the paragraph above where I call him an "IC jerk" - and so I can understand your interpretation of my use of "IC jerk" as
You're not really scumhunting with your vote on me, because you're not really working or thinking, you're either just randomly pushing - taking the easy out that you accuse me of - or you're actively trying to control how I use my vote. Shame on you for either, you IC jerk.
meaning that he's an IC jerk because and only because of his vote. But your interpretation is utterly incorrect. He is an IC jerk because he has misused his IC voice, and the shame he should feel for being an abusive IC is far, far greater than the shame he should feel for lazy play or attempting to manipulate my use of my vote - but either is still shameful too.
You did not plan on pressuring RPG.
Absolutely false. Questions are not the only form of pressure there is. Nor are they the only way to attempt to elicit answers.
Speaking of, you then start into RPG, claiming his activity elsewhere in the forums over this one game, which he said he asked for a replacement for, shows scumminess and unwillingness to post. Could it possibly be he maybe had priorities over this single game?
Shame on you. That's a quote from Day 1 - from before he was asking for replacement.
I ask him on Day 2 about his behavior from Day 1 - before he asked for a replacement.
He claims he'll play "to the best of his ability". I challenge that "best of his ability" - it is a real issue, it's why I wasn't trying to question him, and your 'impartial' viewpoint apparently misses such things as
Right now it seems pointless to question you - you're claiming you can't even read the thread.
You try to call him out for not hunting in one post. Which is, to your true point, the only one made in a week. But most of that is an IC post, and the other bit is talking to you about time constraints.
At this point, the game had gone on for about 3 weeks. You're fine with him throwing away 1/3 of the game? Goodie, and that's because he was doing so well the other 2/3rds, right?
Hogwash. He wasn't, at all, and that's discussed here.
As of right now, Deathsword's made 13 total posts in the game. Rolepgeek has made 17. In raw 'activity' measured by # of posts, Rolepgeek has indeed been more 'active' than Deathsword.
In terms of scumhunting (which is an activity I consider primary when I consider 'activity', not post count), Deathsword has made a total of 7/13 which contain at least a single sentence I can recognize as Scumhunting. In some posts, it's literally a single sentence.
ICs are here to -play- as well as be an IC voice. They can be Scum, and we have to determine this - in part by their behavior. Failure to Scumhunt is Scummy. It's seriously Scummy - Scum have very few reasons to appear to Scumhunt - but the biggie is to fit in or get lynched.
You then list that you could have voted for "Rolepgeek, Deathsword, Darvi, Squill" and felt comfortable with it. Why not with someone who was around?
Because Rolepgeek was the Scummiest of the four to me. I was beginning to discuss a compromise vote at that point.
Asking for a replacement doesn't change your role, or render you harmless if you are Scum. The next D is lylo, if we didn't lynch Scum. No one was voting extension, so it's not like we can just delay and get a replacement and keep going - note I did offer to support an extension (and that the first time I voted to extend, rather than support extensions, that was the first extension that failed to pass).
Then you say that DS's reasons to vote you are "you're active, verbose, and attacking me." then call him Scumsword. Honestly I can see why he didn't once waver.
Scumsword was the name he took for himself, when he was Scum IC for the BM prior to this one.
Now, question: What does your list look like right now?
Town, myself, bsnott (for reasons I've explained. We're going to be taking a closer look at those reasons really soon - I'm very interested in why -everyone- has appeared to ignore them so far. I make some very strong claims about why I believe he is confirmed Town. That's not something to ignore)
Scum: Pufferfish.
Still unsure about: Tiruin, Squill.
I do not understand why I would not be impartial to a viewpoint in a game where logic and reasoning are key in victory.
Me either - I don't understand why you would be. But you appear to be heavily biased.
I agree. The clincher was that you threw a vote at someone and stated while doing so that you were not going to question them. You ended up pressuring, but that's due to other causes. You intent was not pressure with the vote.
As to if I should doublecheck, if I have made an error in words, whether through structure or typos, I apologize, otherwise I do not know what you are asking about. I see Deathsword's case against you, and I agree with it.
Your clincher is at best a misinterpretation which leans heavily towards a negative bias. You are absolutely incorrect about my intention in regards to my vote on Rolepgeek, and in disregarding -all- of the words I said as I made it.
Rolepgeek, I've got this vote and no better use for it right now. If you're dead there's no need to replace your spot; and from close to start of play you've not really done much that seems pro-Town to me. Your behavior isn't that bad of a Scum cover either. I'm far from sure you're Scum but I'm far from sure you're Town either, so for the moment this works for me. As long as you're seeking replacement I'm not going to ask you anything.
Care to explain that [Deathsword's] case in your own words?
And, if you are Town, for the sake of a Town win, I hope you start making that very, very clear. I didn't expect to be able to judge you based on your own words or actions - I thought you'd be vague enough that I'd -have- to rule your role out or not by comparing Rolepgeek's history to Deathsword's history/Tiruin's end of D2 behavior and Squill's endless caution (that is a rather Scummy trait).
Seeing as the day ends monday, unless we come to a decision over the weekend, ((unlikely)), I will be posting and extend vote on monday if it comes down to the bare wires.
I am perfectly happy with further extensions, I believe that we need to come to a 3 way agreement (a 4 way is possible, but would include one liar - and if it includes both liars - game's over) before we can continue with any hope of a Town win.
Author
Topic: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - GAME OVER - TOWN WIN! (Read 136435 times)