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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - GAME OVER - TOWN WIN!  (Read 136080 times)

Imp

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #465 on: November 09, 2013, 06:32:02 am »

@Imp:

Your first vote for RPG. You sorta just toss your vote here.

I'll write that interpretation off as a misunderstanding, rather than malicious intent.

When I say "I have no better use for my vote", I am -not- saying 'My vote doesn't have any use' or 'My vote's not doing anything so I'll go waste it'.

What is the best use for your vote - it's voting for the Scummiest person around.  He's not the only Scummy person in the game to me, and he might not stay the one I'm most suspicious of - but he was the top then.

Does that make "I've got this vote and no better use for it right now." easier to understand?  Yes, I did intentionally word my vote placement provocatively.  I was -trying- to evoke a response.

Why don't I just ask him questions?  You say you read the thread, especially his posts.  Look again at his previous posts before D2 starts.  Where he is answering questions, those answers are almost all either excuses why he cannot answer, claims (not followed through) that he will soon answer, or are statements that fail to answer the question that was asked.


So if the guy can't or won't answer questions, no matter why he can't or won't - why should I ask them?  There's more than one way to attempt to get a response from someone, and I try another method.  I invite interaction in a indirect fashion calculated to attempt to provoke it through any of several means.

Heck, for that matter this was already all explained in the thread, in D2 which you read so carefully, but so not impartially:

Right now it seems pointless to question you - you're claiming you can't even read the thread.
Oh, I've read most of it. That's not the problem.

I understood you were not reading the thread (staring at it sometimes, yes, but NOT reading it) because you said so, and then gave no indication until your most recent post that this had changed.

Additionally you've said this in answer to others' questions:
I'll get back to you. I need to look through the posts, and badly. Harass me if I don't get back to this.
And then you asked for a replacement, though you said you'd still answer questions and such, then tried to do so in the same post, but you included  stuff like

I had said Mr. Zero because at the time I thought I'd spotted a post he'd made that had raised my hackles, but I can't find it now
...
And nnnnnnn...superblackcat. Holy crap, I just realized. The post he had right before mine was the one I thought was Mr Zero's. Probably. I can't really tell, and I thought it had been on page 15.
...
continued tomorrow

And of course, it wasn't continued 'tomorrow', or even the day after.  So I really didn't think you were up to following the thread, playing here, or answering questions.  In fact, you still haven't really 'continued that'.  Since you now say that's changed, sure, I'll ask some more.  I do have plenty for you.



When I vote him I also say

If you're dead there's no need to replace your spot; and from close to start of play you've not really done much that seems pro-Town to me.  Your behavior isn't that bad of a Scum cover either.  I'm far from sure you're Scum but I'm far from sure you're Town either, so for the moment this works for me.  As long as you're seeking replacement I'm not going to ask you anything.

I explain then and there that I see him as probable Scum:  "from close to start of play you've not really done much that seems pro-Town to me.  Your behavior isn't that bad of a Scum cover either." 

I'm not convinced he's Scum, and I say so:  "I'm far from sure you're Scum but I'm far from sure you're Town either, so for the moment this works for me."

When I say - "As long as you're seeking replacement I'm not going to ask you anything."  Near as I can tell, his 'asking for replacement' = 'not focusing on the thread, not being 'able' to answer questions'.  If he can't or won't answer questions (sure, he says he will - but that alone doesn't answer them, and he hasn't been) then I'm not going to waste my time typing them.

As SOON as he makes it clear that he's actually paying attention and interacting, I start interacting with him.  I continue to match his tone and level of manners - I am NOT required to be polite to people who are impolite.  HE says I did worse to him than he did to me.  I don't see it that way at all.  I don't disagree with you about flame war - But I was trying to Scumhunt him.  I also talk about his anti-impness.  I ask for anyone else to handle Scumhunting where he's concerned - no one does.  I respond to this by doing the best I can to do that Scumhunting - Just because he's acting the way he is doesn't mean his role can be ignored - and if it is, and if he's Scum, then Town will lose.

Then DeathSword posts. Saying you're dropping a vote on someone asking for a replacement. Which is weird, for me at least, as someone new to the game.

RPG then replies, agreeing with DeathSword that, yes, it's a vote on someone asking for a replacement.

Scum or Town can ask for a replacement.  Heck, RPG was asking for a replacement for around 3 weeks before you joined the game.  The game could have ended with him still seeking replacement - that's a loss for Town if he ISN'T voted should he be Scum - and with how he was unable to track the thread, that's -also- a serious liability for Town - not that I attack him on that angle.  But ignoring him was not an option.

You state that you aren't going to ask him questions, meaning you aren't looking to actually check if he's scum. For someone who's so set on scumhunting, that's a pretty odd move.

False reasoning, as explained above.  I have accepted that he has been repeatedly failing to answer questions, at least well enough to function as satisfactory answers.  I am set on Scumhunting - I try another method and continue to adjust.

You call Deathsword out on coddling players in one game and not giving this game much attention. This is true.

...Though you did try to call him out on being sick. Which is possible and highly likely this time of year. My partner was sick with various different bugs for three months straight last fall/winter. You try to call him out in his IC brackets when I believe the person behind the computer was legitimately ill.

Wrong, I do call him out on it - the last BM he played in, he WAS SCUM and acted extremely similarly to how he was playing here, including 'lurking because of illness'.  True or false - how do you scumhunt someone who isn't here?  You can't - and there he was in this game, doing it again.

You also call him "an IC jerk" for calling you out on a vote that you placed on someone calling for a replacement. Sounds a little OMGUS-y to me.

Wrong.  I call him "an IC jerk" because he has used his IC voice for things which it was not intended to be used for - like excusing his absences.  The IC voice is to be used to teach us how to play from a completely impartial and trustable viewpoint - period.  Worse, in that BM game where he was Scum, he ALSO made inappropriate use of IC voice.  It's a pattern - and that time for sure he did it really inappropriately -  because he was Scum and his failure to participate adequately needed to be challenged to help identify him as such.

I establish this in the paragraph above where I call him an "IC jerk" - and so I can understand your interpretation of my use of "IC jerk" as
You're not really scumhunting with your vote on me, because you're not really working or thinking, you're either just randomly pushing - taking the easy out that you accuse me of - or you're actively trying to control how I use my vote.  Shame on you for either, you IC jerk.

meaning that he's an IC jerk because and only because of his vote.  But your interpretation is utterly incorrect.  He is an IC jerk because he has misused his IC voice, and the shame he should feel for being an abusive IC is far, far greater than the shame he should feel for lazy play or attempting to manipulate my use of my vote - but either is still shameful too.

You did not plan on pressuring RPG.

Absolutely false.  Questions are not the only form of pressure there is.  Nor are they the only way to attempt to elicit answers.

Speaking of, you then start into RPG, claiming his activity elsewhere in the forums over this one game, which he said he asked for a replacement for, shows scumminess and unwillingness to post. Could it possibly be he maybe had priorities over this single game?

Shame on you.  That's a quote from Day 1 - from before he was asking for replacement.

I ask him on Day 2 about his behavior from Day 1 - before he asked for a replacement.

He claims he'll play "to the best of his ability".  I challenge that "best of his ability" - it is a real issue, it's why I wasn't trying to question him, and your 'impartial' viewpoint apparently misses such things as

Right now it seems pointless to question you - you're claiming you can't even read the thread.

You try to call him out for not hunting in one post. Which is, to your true point, the only one made in a week. But most of that is an IC post, and the other bit is talking to you about time constraints.

At this point, the game had gone on for about 3 weeks.  You're fine with him throwing away 1/3 of the game?  Goodie, and that's because he was doing so well the other 2/3rds, right?

Hogwash.  He wasn't, at all, and that's discussed here.

As of right now, Deathsword's made 13 total posts in the game.  Rolepgeek has made 17.  In raw 'activity' measured by # of posts, Rolepgeek has indeed been more 'active' than Deathsword.

In terms of scumhunting (which is an activity I consider primary when I consider 'activity', not post count), Deathsword has made a total of 7/13 which contain at least a single sentence I can recognize as Scumhunting.  In some posts, it's literally a single sentence.

ICs are here to -play- as well as be an IC voice.  They can be Scum, and we have to determine this - in part by their behavior. Failure to Scumhunt is Scummy.  It's seriously Scummy - Scum have very few reasons to appear to Scumhunt - but the biggie is to fit in or get lynched.

You then list that you could have voted for "Rolepgeek, Deathsword, Darvi, Squill" and felt comfortable with it. Why not with someone who was around?

Because Rolepgeek was the Scummiest of the four to me.  I was beginning to discuss a compromise vote at that point.

Asking for a replacement doesn't change your role, or render you harmless if you are Scum.  The next D is lylo, if we didn't lynch Scum.  No one was voting extension, so it's not like we can just delay and get a replacement and keep going - note I did offer to support an extension (and that the first time I voted to extend, rather than support extensions, that was the first extension that failed to pass).

Then you say that DS's reasons to vote you are "you're active, verbose, and attacking me." then call him Scumsword. Honestly I can see why he didn't once waver.

Scumsword was the name he took for himself, when he was Scum IC for the BM prior to this one.

Now, question: What does your list look like right now?

Town, myself, bsnott (for reasons I've explained.  We're going to be taking a closer look at those reasons really soon - I'm very interested in why -everyone- has appeared to ignore them so far.  I make some very strong claims about why I believe he is confirmed Town.  That's not something to ignore)

Scum:  Pufferfish. 

Still unsure about:  Tiruin, Squill.

I do not understand why I would not be impartial to a viewpoint in a game where logic and reasoning are key in victory.

Me either - I don't understand why you would be.  But you appear to be heavily biased.

I agree. The clincher was that you threw a vote at someone and stated while doing so that you were not going to question them. You ended up pressuring, but that's due to other causes. You intent was not pressure with the vote.

As to if I should doublecheck, if I have made an error in words, whether through structure or typos, I apologize, otherwise I do not know what you are asking about. I see Deathsword's case against you, and I agree with it.

Your clincher is at best a misinterpretation which leans heavily towards a negative bias.  You are absolutely incorrect about my intention in regards to my vote on Rolepgeek, and in disregarding -all- of the words I said as I made it.

Rolepgeek, I've got this vote and no better use for it right now.  If you're dead there's no need to replace your spot; and from close to start of play you've not really done much that seems pro-Town to me.  Your behavior isn't that bad of a Scum cover either.  I'm far from sure you're Scum but I'm far from sure you're Town either, so for the moment this works for me.  As long as you're seeking replacement I'm not going to ask you anything.


Care to explain that [Deathsword's] case in your own words?


And, if you are Town, for the sake of a Town win, I hope you start making that very, very clear.  I didn't expect to be able to judge you based on your own words or actions - I thought you'd be vague enough that I'd -have- to rule your role out or not by comparing Rolepgeek's history to Deathsword's history/Tiruin's end of D2 behavior and Squill's endless caution (that is a rather Scummy trait).

Seeing as the day ends monday, unless we come to a decision over the weekend, ((unlikely)), I will be posting and extend vote on monday if it comes down to the bare wires.

I am perfectly happy with further extensions, I believe that we need to come to a 3 way agreement (a 4 way is possible, but would include one liar - and if it includes both liars - game's over) before we can continue with any hope of a Town win.
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Imp

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #466 on: November 09, 2013, 06:39:39 am »

Missed one of Puff's questions:

At which post did you decide RPG to be the scummiest?

This one.

At the time of that post, I held Kleril to be Scummiest, and Superblackcat to be second Scummiest.  That post, combined with all of his earlier interactions made Rolepgeek reach third most clearest Scum to me.

As I continued to watch Superblackcat, I reclassified him as 'unable to be useful but almost certainly Town', which shifted Rolepgeek to second Scummiest.

When Kleril died, that death shifted Rolepgeek to first Scummiest, thus he was my top Scum pick at the start of D2.
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Imp

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #467 on: November 09, 2013, 07:44:50 am »

bsnott:

How can I prove myself to any of you?

You already have, to me, and I find it odd that this has not been discussed amongst our other players yet.  That's changing and soon.

Squill:
Squill:

Veiled threats, the sort that you see in my writing, do you believe those are exclusively Pro-Town behavior, Anti-Town behavior, or a mixture of both?  If it's a mixture, what's the ratio approximately seem to be?

A factor that affects now, which didn't before (in case you see me as a bully or whatever else bad, be I Town or not) - we have no room for a mislynch.
I think veiled threats might have been a poor choice of words, but I think you get what I mean. I think that you're the most aggressive player in the game, which is both good and bad. Good because it probably puts pressure on scum, but bad because it intimidates people from voting on you, out of fear that you, as an aggressive player, will turn on them. This is not to say that you are definitely or even probably scum, it's just to say that no one has seriously scumhunted against you yet. So I want to ask you: Do you think that there can be a thing as too aggressive in this game? Do you think that it is possible that, by being very aggressive, to deflect scrutiny by means of intimidation?

Alright.  I'll also point out that you didn't answer my question (yet).  You did provide other information and ask other questions.

I'll answer you now (and in my next post I'll explain why I didn't answer you until I got Tiruin's answer), but I've just got to ask - why didn't you answer me?

"Do you think that there can be a thing as too aggressive in this game?"  I don't know.  I do know that misapplication of aggression would be harmful.  I can't think of a scenario where properly applied aggression could be 'too much' - but proper application of aggression includes restraint.  Aggression without restraint, that's the closest I can think of as 'too aggressive' - but I still call that 'wrong aggressive' and 'poor aggression'.

"Do you think that it is possible that, by being very aggressive, to deflect scrutiny by means of intimidation?"  Your wording to me implies 'successful deflection' - though you do not add the word successful in.  I answer that interpretation first:  Possible, but should be very unlikely.  Our skilled players especially are likely to be able to handle that type of attempted defense.  Others among us are capable of attempting to as well.  Note that only Scum need to successfully deflect scrutiny.  Town should not care - but are expected to respond to it when it happens.

Interpreting your question as 'attempt deflection':  Yes.  Rather foolish, but yes.  You need -more- than aggression because if the aggression is all you have, then that shows, and looks highly Scummy.  And there's all the clues that you're likely dropping, knowingly or not, in all you say and do - note that only Scum need to attempt to deflect Scrutiny.  Town should not care - but are expected to respond to it when it happens.


@Imp: I am not quite sure I follow. What was so imperative(heh) about this question/answer that you needed to put several other things on hold until Tiruin replied? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, could you clarify?

Because it's the one thing that Tiruin's done/had time to do that came at a highly meaningful point in the game.  Not as meaningful as bsnott's meaningful action, but reasonably close.  And what she did (not trying to get extension/saying she thought she had asked for an extension/later saying that she didn't because she thought no one else wanted one) (some sort of vote confusion/some sort of lie about vote perception?/that weird discussion about SBC versus Darvi being the vote choice (and rolepgeek not) when a vote for SBC would have tied the votes (because of my vote compromise to him from hours before) and if she had MISSED that compromise (which considering voting for SBC implies - unawareness that it would create a tie because she didn't see I'd changed my vote) then she should have considered Rolepgeek a possible lynch, but she doesn't discuss that, not even to say 'and I think Rolepgeek's Town. She even asks him, with about 10 minutes left on the clock to end of day, to explain his vote for Superblackcat)


This matters because I know I'm Town, and because of bsnott's actions when Scum could have won the game, I know he's Town.  There's only three Town left, and I know who two are.  That's big to me.  That gives me GREAT hope, the most hope I've had since I was the blithering idiot who believed she'd spotted both Scum on D1 (and was wrong about both picks).

So between you, Puff, and Tiruin, two are Scum and one is Town.  If Tiruin's scary choices at a time when acting like Scum starts to make sense are actually sensible, then the only thing I can judge her role on is Deathsword's behavior, Town or Scum she's just too good for me to be able to distinguish on D3 lylo.  I thought I'd have to judge Puff on Rolepgeek's behavior too, but that doesn't seem to be the case either.

You have scared me about your possibly being Scum from the beginning.  You've played a SOLIDLY cautious game all the way through.  You've spoken close to the minimum possible to get by, and you didn't even do that until you were challenged to.  Cautious may well mean Scum.  Otherwise you're not especially Scummy - or anything.  You're so self contained, you could be anything under your introvert exterior.

So I really expected I'd have to judge you based on my evaluations of Rolepgeek/Puff and Deathsword/Tiruin.

That hasn't changed.

The thing is, the reason to wait - if I could pick out the last Town, then I can save a lot of time and energy on not trying to convince the Scum - who don't need to be convinced of anything and are finally in striking range of a win.  I can identify them, interact however is needed - but I know their opinion is garbage and their intentions are deceptive.  They don't need convincing who is Town or Scum.

I lean towards you being Town for primarily two reasons - Other than your incredible caution you haven't really done anything seriously Scummy and all of your play, even that caution can be fit into the range of 'reasonable choices for a new player to make', and because of the huge 'pro Scum' move Tiruin pulled.  I waited for her answer because if it is a mistake, I need to know so I can evaluate the honesty of the reasons against the facts of the situation.  Right now her reasons given don't match the facts they cover, and she stopped before explaining what I needed most to hear, stating that she was doing so because

...Imp. I've to cut the spoilers short, but that is as far as I go until I see a flaw in your note here. It appears to me that you discarded your own vote on Darvi when putting up those tables, and...somehow backed up the suspicion on me from that point. What did you see Darvi as, at that time?

I don't quite understand her reason for stopping, unless she's confused as heck and can't continue without clarification (or she's Scum and choosing to stop there because that supports her needs best)  So I've clarified for her.

But we can't just keep waiting, and I got one answer from her.  It's likely to be the best that I can get.  She has said:

Imp:
I see you as town.

If she's Town, she knows she is town, she considers me Town too.

And:
Expounding.
Rolepgeek's last post. The one which attracted my attention (since I was reading backwards..yeah  ::))

She's reading backwards.  So the most recent posts in the thread she should be familiar with - including the ones where I analyze and identify bsnott as confirmed Town.  She doesn't comment on this, at all - not an 'agreed', not a 'whoa, later we'll talk about that' - she skips it.  As Town, it should attract notice - enough to evaluate for veracity - it may even identify me as Scum if I am through some sort of slip up.  She doesn't say a word about it - but if she agrees with it and she is Town - she knows who two Town are (herself, bsnott) and she thinks I am Town too.

But she also says:
Imp: Note that, before all else, I address your note of 'why I'm doing x'. This is because I don't actually care about being scummy or not-slip ups are made, and I'd argue that I would 'do' or the act would happen regardless of my alignment

That bugs me, because we are in lylo.  A misunderstanding can cost us the game, and I have explained to her (tried darn hard at least) that I view that as a seriously pro-Scum pair of moves.  Because lylo means a mistake or a misunderstanding will lead to game over, I believe that explaining choices so your reasoning can be considered is vital - if you are talking to Town.

If you're talking to Scum and know it, that's kinda a waste of time, other than what information the other Town players gain from watching the exchange.

So I believe if she's a Town player who believes she's talking to another Town player, she should care if I think she's Scum in lylo, at least enough to explain her honest choices.  If she doesn't have honest choices, well, she's not Town and may not have anything that looks like an honest reason to explain.  If she's Town who thinks I am scum, she shouldn't care what I think, only what the other players think - and if she's Scum - also, she should care more about what all players think, than what I specifically do or not.
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Imp

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #468 on: November 09, 2013, 07:58:29 am »

Ok everyone:

Here's a summary of my case for bsnott being proved Town:

He walks into the game 90 minutes from what I believe to be the end of Day, places a vote on me, taking us from a tie (Town would lose) to a lynch Imp (Town loses if Imp is Town).  In actuality, the game has two extend votes, enough to extend - if no shortens are placed.  But I don't understand that, and I explain current state of the game as needing 3 extend votes as I believe it does.



If bsnott is Scum, he knows my role.  He can very innocently just log out, 'never see' my post about what's going on - that covers him if both Squill and Tiruin log in  and he lives to D3 despite leaving his vote the way it is.

But he stays, voting extend (and throwing away a very likely Scum win - because if he is Scum he knows my role).  That third extend vote could be very important - that means that a single shorten cannot force the day to end as scheduled.

He has acted in a way incompatible with a Scum win, at a time when a Scum win could have been achieved.  That's a form of pressure, especially for Scum - a very potent form of pressure.  He passed that test.  He is Town.  Newbie Town; not bothering to check into the game Town - but that doesn't change his role.


So, discuss.  Do you agree with my reasoning?  If you do not - why, where is it flawed?  Also - why didn't you talk about this rather extraordinary claim previously?
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Squill

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #469 on: November 10, 2013, 04:42:52 pm »

Ahhhh. Fuck, sorry for being absent so long. I wasn't here on Saturday and for the first half of today, and when I get on Friday to post/warn you guys of impending absence, and, waddya know? 504 gateway timeout.
Anyways, I'm back.

bsnott:

How can I prove myself to any of you?

You already have, to me, and I find it odd that this has not been discussed amongst our other players yet.  That's changing and soon.

Squill:
Squill:

Veiled threats, the sort that you see in my writing, do you believe those are exclusively Pro-Town behavior, Anti-Town behavior, or a mixture of both?  If it's a mixture, what's the ratio approximately seem to be?

A factor that affects now, which didn't before (in case you see me as a bully or whatever else bad, be I Town or not) - we have no room for a mislynch.
I think veiled threats might have been a poor choice of words, but I think you get what I mean. I think that you're the most aggressive player in the game, which is both good and bad. Good because it probably puts pressure on scum, but bad because it intimidates people from voting on you, out of fear that you, as an aggressive player, will turn on them. This is not to say that you are definitely or even probably scum, it's just to say that no one has seriously scumhunted against you yet. So I want to ask you: Do you think that there can be a thing as too aggressive in this game? Do you think that it is possible that, by being very aggressive, to deflect scrutiny by means of intimidation?
I'll answer you now (and in my next post I'll explain why I didn't answer you until I got Tiruin's answer), but I've just got to ask - why didn't you answer me?
People not wanting to go against you is all well and good if you are town, but the entire point of the game is that we really don't know who's side anyone is on except for ourselves. I think that the only way people should be excluded from questioning is if they present very good proof of them not being scum. Thus, I think that, whether intentionally or unintentionally, presenting yourself as a target that is too high to hit can be at best ineffective at achieving anything, but more probably detrimental to town.

As for bsnott, I don't think that there really is some sort of argument here.
Unless bsnott is one of the dumbest people in existence, there is no way he is scum.
Unvote. At this point, continuing to vote for him is an insult to his intelligence.

This is probably all I'm doing today. I'm kinda tired, and I need time to collect my thoughts.
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bsnott

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #470 on: November 10, 2013, 08:36:15 pm »

Huge sorry to everyone for my inactivity over the past weekend. I've been at my dad's house, and for some odd reason the Wi-Fi there will not work. It wouldn't even work on my Android phone. It's crazy. Anyway, let's get to the game.

@Pufferfish You may have previously stated this, but what is your list?

@Squill Thank you, I think!
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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #471 on: November 10, 2013, 08:42:46 pm »

Addressing the past, separated in sections for clarity/easy formatting.
Posting soon. Just had a breezy (literally. Pretty much an understatement...) weekend.

Mostly to Imp. Notes on others.
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Gentlefish

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #472 on: November 10, 2013, 08:46:20 pm »

BSnott
@Pufferfish You may have previously stated this, but what is your list?

I know I posted it. But I can't find to to quote it, so:

Imp
Tiruin/Squill
You

Imp:
Speaking now on your feeling of Squill being scum for playing cautious:

Why does cautious posting scare you? Squill has already mentioned that your posts are aggressive and may turn people away from responding to you. So not responding due to someone's perceived overbearing aggressiveness is scummy?

Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #473 on: November 10, 2013, 09:54:00 pm »

Alright! Using Think's lurkertracker (Sorry for that thing in the other thread ZU :( ..I'm unsure if I hurt your feelings..but I guess you also need a vote-history counter too along with that current-vote-counter. :P)



Imp:

Spoiler: Tl;dr? (click to show/hide)

Next!
Quote
Maybe you were confused, maybe we were both confused, or maybe you were being maliciously manipulative.  That third one's what I'm worried about, so lets get it straightened out.
I'm on confusion/forced to decide on the lacking time. Manipulative...I understand how this is a conclusion, but through all else that I can say without pulling the 'I'm town and I'm not' cheapcard, I have to denounce that in favor of what I say above in the tl;dr section.

Spoiler: Fixin' things (click to show/hide)

bsnott/Imp/All concerned
bsnott: How did you see your first post/vote? Based on this - you ask others who they think is scum, how will that help you? Do you have your own reads or are you searching for others' reads to comply with?







Squill//Regards on DS:
@Tiruin: Do you understand why Imp wanted this answered so badly?
..I can. She wants to be sure, and while I look at DS' case, it seems faulty that he's accusing the holistic portion of Imp without looking into Depth.



I had this saved and should be with that post which had a ton of spoilers...
Squill
Really sorry for not being here yesterday, all.
Before I complete my post (yeah holidays + preparing for uni), I'd like to ask a few things.

Squill: It is LYLO. You're seriously voting for Imp under grounds of this accusation? The same would follow for Rolepgeek, but by far--what Imp said is perfectly her own opinion, and will not daunt others from playing. I mean, its pretty obvious that people would be irritated or depressed at the level of activity given how much effort they've put into it.

Humor me. Did you think that case would be believable enough to stand? You seem to be concluding more than investigating, given how you aren't leaving anything for Imp. Is that a conclusion back there?
I think you're right. Imp was my best vote, but it was terribly thought out. For now, unvote.
And your best vote is terribly thought out. Append a 'for now' and you have an unvote.

The reasons on my vote on Puffyfish were mostly subjective to his former's actions, but here you-to not parrot Imp- retreat in the face of direct opposition.

The vagueness there. What is it for? You think I'm right means that you sort of agree with me, aye? So then what?

Shotgun questions.





Puffin!
Why do you use FoS instead of a vote? What is your intent in doing such? Why so?

PFP. I'm a bad IC :/
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zombie urist

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3
« Reply #474 on: November 11, 2013, 12:41:52 am »

Day ends Monday November 11th 9PM PST. About ~23 hours from this post

Imp -
squill -
bsnott -
Pufferfish -
Tiruin -

Not voting - bsnott, Pufferfish, Imp, Tiruin, squill

0 to extend, 2 needed
0 to shorten, 3 needed
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The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.

Gentlefish

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #475 on: November 11, 2013, 12:53:42 am »

Tiruin:

You're right. I do have to vote at some point. Let's get the pressure going. I'll rebuild Deathsword's case and make my vote.

After I get my cookie dough.

Also this has been a weird game as it comes to BMs, as far as I can understand. Looots of absence. So you're not a bad IC.

Gentlefish

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3
« Reply #476 on: November 11, 2013, 03:57:22 am »

My case for Imp as founded by DeathSword and expounded upon by me.


Spoiler: Fun facts and numbers! (click to show/hide)



So, yes, from this information, I believe Imp to be guilty.

Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #477 on: November 11, 2013, 05:32:32 am »

PFP

I would appreciate an answer to my question instead of a follow-through of whatever is implied between the absence of an answer and where my thoughts go in my question, Puffin.

Quote
As shortly as I can possibly say it, I believe DeathSword built a sturdy case against Imp. He managed to do so with three posts. Imp's response to him is to attempt to discredit him and treat him as though he were also guilty. She does so with many, many words. I stick to my OMGUS accusation.
What exactly is that part of Deathsword's case which you stand on against Imp? The word count? Where specifically in that field incriminates Imp and pokes her as scum?

The discredit, I'd understand, but thus far I see it more of a response/assertive retort towards what DS' aggression was doing. Pretty nice.
However, I've to ask-since you say 'discredit', it means that you stand fully by DS' case precluding my existence as a player, yes?

Quote
Firstly: He votes Imp to be lynched. He then states that it seems to him that she wants to vote anyone and doesn't care who.
Cont: "Who, at that time."
I've read the
Quote
Rolepgeek, I've got this vote and no better use for it right now.
as something else than 'i throw this vote at YOU because I've no better use for it'. I read it as an extreme--seeing Rolepgeek as scum, in other words. No better use being pressure or doubting and analysis.

Like saying 'Rolepgeek, I've got this vote I've no better use for it right now but[...]', and in the ellipsis adding the context of her following statement in that one vote-paragraph.

Quote
I'm far from sure you're Scum but I'm far from sure you're Town either, so for the moment this works for me.
...But this is where I poke Imp. :I
Quote
As long as you're seeking replacement I'm not going to ask you anything.
While this borders on respect to the person, Imp, you should see that the query at hand would also in effect be applied to who his replacee would answer--you can't leave a dry lead, dry. While a person is under replacement, shoot all queries at him. The 'asking for replacement' generally means that he's wishing to be replaced BUT UNTIL THE MOD ANNOUNCES HIM BEING REPLACED (or the player replacing in), the asker is generally considered a player until then.
Yeah this is what I mean by bad IC despite RL stuffs >_< I didn't address this at the best time!!!

{Also Imp is a SHE, don't mistake her for a HE, thanks. :P}

Pufferfish: Can you summarize your case on Imp? Let's say this is a regular game and the whole audience is looking at said case to better expound on brevity-in-context. What'cha think on what would apply and appeal to the rest.

You've laid out the context-what is your jurisdiction and/or response?

Could you give your piece of mind on her responses to me and vice versa? What is your take on us?



Imp, by far it seems you're giving me the benefit of the doubt--as in, how you regarded my one case back there [Near D2 end]. Am I right in presuming such? Why, either way?

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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #478 on: November 11, 2013, 10:03:02 am »

Day ends Monday November 11th 9PM PST. About ~23 hours from this post
Quote
12:41:52 am
Quote from: Time of my post
November 11, 2013, ~10:10:00 am
...13 hours left. C'mon. Extend. We're approaching cruising speed here.
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Gentlefish

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLIII: Robot Mafia - Day 3 -
« Reply #479 on: November 11, 2013, 10:24:43 am »

Extend

Tiruin:
My mistake, I misinterpreted the question. I'll answer when I get back from classes/work today.
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