Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Imp]

@Kleril:

Sorry I've been posting so little this past day / day and a half. I've spent most of it in transit and with family, and so my ability to follow the game had been hindered.

The OP gives me the feel that 'weekends are time off from Mafia if you want,' because of this:

• Day/Night Length - Days will last 72 hours, excluding weekends. Nights will last 24 hours, or until all night actions are received. Neither of these include weekends.

So I don't hold anyone's inactivity during the weekend as having any meaning.  I personally have a bit more free time on the weekends than weekdays, so if people besides me are willing/able to play on the 'off time', fantastic.

An aside at @Lukeinator:

Yep, that means I won't be even angrier at you if you haven't started trying to hunt before Monday.  After Monday?  If you keep acting like 'Scared-Silent Scum' past Monday, I'm going to want to see what secrets your entrails have.   If I have my way, we won't just lynch you - you're getting fully hung, drawn, and quartered. 

Err, back to you now, Kleril.

Anyway, I'm going to guess that you felt rushed in answering me, because you.... really kinda didn't.  At -all-.  I scare you?  You are scaring me too.

Hopefully this clears up the issues Zero and Death had with my previous post.

How about the issues I had?  I spelled them out for you.  You still haven't answered my first question about it:

Kleril:  What bandwagon does my vote seem to be going along with?

You sort of talk about it here....

The first supporter of an accusation (not accuser, mind you)

But that does not answer my question.  Supporting an accusation, I would agree that is at least potentially bandwagoning.  But you reword your statement rather than answer.  But I didn't ask what you meant by bandwagoning, or what bandwagoning meant.

My lack of response was to try and let you react, and considering you've been more inquisitive rather than defensive over this, it has put me somewhat at ease in my suspicion.

(14 words later)

Imp, I do not believe that you are scum. Really, you have me completely convinced that you are town

Even if I ignore the clash between your "it has put me somewhat at ease in my suspicion" and the almost instantly following "I do not believe that you are scum. Really, you have me completely convinced" as maybe just being how you talk (the two are extremely different things, right?)

I am interested in if you really are Town or not, and rather less interested in if you are convinced I am Town - except that there are two players who are sure who is and isn't Town.  Are you sure you're convinced I am Town?

Instead of answering my question, in your reply what I notice instead is that you unvote me (without voting for anyone else), you answer a question no one asked (while still not answering the question you were asked), say that you're sure I'm Town and you're wary about it, and that my convincing way of speaking is scaring you.  That's really hard to ignore - Isn't that Scum reasoning?  Why would a Town player be scared of someone they are convinced is also a Town player?  Why does my words having a lot of sway (do they?  Over you?  Over everyone?) scare you, especially if you -are- sure I am Town?

This is your first game of mafia?

Yes.

@Rolepgeek:

Good points.  At the time, it was the only thing I saw to challenge him, or anyone, about.  And to me, saying, or maybe especially {saying}, do something, in a way that sounds like everyone should do it, and then not doing it yourself is glaringly wrong.  It's almost the same thing as lying and it is a type of manipulation of the rest of us.  Not IC manipulation, but a shocking choice to make as a player, to choose to blithely and obliviously ignore his own {IC} instruction.

And I am not against manipulation of course - but I saw and see no way that his player-manipulation of us all could help find Scum.  I saw no reason for it, it still jars me, and it still seems wrong.  It may always bother me - but game goes on.  So I challenged him on it, and our interactions played out as it went.  Despite being distracted by his to me incomprehensible choices, which I still feel unsure the meaning of (Why would he do it?  As Town or as Scum, I still don't understand the benefit to his side either way), I remain highly interested in finding the real scum through any means possible, and watch and challenge every player as best as I can think how to with the intention of better revealing their motivations and thought processes, be those of Town or Scum.

Which does lead to your second concern.  You didn't really ask me anything, but before I explain anything about my questions or questioning style I'd like to ask you this:  Do you perceive all of my questions to be of the active-lurking sort, or are you are specifically speaking about a specific subset of my questions?

[Imp]

@Imp, Please answer my earlier question.

This one?

@All Could everyone list out their top FOSes (If you have more than one as of now) and top TOWNies (If you have more than one)

Actually, I'm the only one who gave you a positive answer.  You're right about....

The only person who responded to this, MrZero

... having -directly- responded to it, though he gave you a negative answer; you might call that blowing you off.  In my post here, which was made after, and to a small extent because of your asking this question...

@All Could everyone list out their top FOSes (If you have more than one as of now) and top TOWNies (If you have more than one)

... of course, I do not -say- I am answering your question, I simply do so, without putting them in any specific order other than what makes sense to me to speak of each with, with great detail, and with the addition of a great many additional pieces of information, all suiting my purpose towards each individual I speak of.  My answer to you is indirect, apparently completely missed - but I did answer you, and very, very fully.  Very possibly more detail than you want to hear, but then again I am verbose. 

But you do not feel answered... I do wonder, are Scum more interested in a clear, consise, and in order list of how the other players feel about everyone than Town players are?


Superblackcat:  If you're in this hole by mistake, I'd really like to see you jump out of it.  If you're in this hole because you're all kinds of Scummy, I still want to see you get out of it, so by all means, looking forward to your answers.

I made a post asking you a few more questions.  Instead of including any answer to them in your next reply afterwards (made a full 6 hours later), you make no reference to it or my questions; maybe you didn't read it before posting this.  That happens, I now understand how a player could work for 6+ hours on a single post in this game and not want to read and include responses to the posts that were added since they started... but this makes me expect that you didn't read anything after my most recent post to you either.

In fact I'm really interested because I find evidence that you read (or otherwise knew the information that would be in) one of the posts made after I made my last post to you - 4 hours after mine to you, 2 hours before your response in fact.  By itself, it's not damning of course, but as yet another piece of information, wowsers.

I'm trying really hard to think of any reason why you'd read Kleril's post directed at me before and instead of reading my post directed at you... or, if you'd read both, why you'd talk about Kleril's post to me in yours without saying ONE WORD about my post to you as well.

I agree with what kleril said about Imp.

It would have been SO HELPFUL if you'd told us specifically what Kleril said about me that you were agreeing with.

Before his most recent post, Kleril votes me.  If you agree with him from then, why am I not on your list of Scum picks?  For that matter, if you agree with his most recent post, why am I not on your list of town picks?

Why am I not on your list of town picks...

Why...

Did you answer that question in your thread already?  When you say

Top FOS: MrZero ... seems like He is trying to hide who he wants dead.

Does this mean that you believe that Scum try to hide who they want dead?  Am I a hidden part of your Town list?

Why does your Others: list include only Kleril?

Why is one of your top scum picks griffinpup, who was off the forums from days before the game began (and thus possibly unaware of what his role is), and who had not logged back into the forum AT ALL as of three days after game start? (I checked on him when I wrote my answer to your question about who we think are Scum and Town - he was active yesterday though, so he is back now, though still silent in our game).  Statistically, any player had a 1/9 chance of starting off as a Scum... No one else who is active, not even Deathsword who you list as being next scummiest, seems more likely to be scum than someone with only an initial 1/9 chance of being Scum, really?

You correct your post... to change the details you say about Deathsword's suspicious behavior.  You change it from 'no activity after being voted' to 'became inactive after me and Imp had large walls of text'.  Having changed your identification of his suspicious behavior, you don't feel any need to change how suspicious he is or isn't?  It's highly and equally suspicious to go inactive after either reason, really?

[zombie urist]

DAY MOD-EXTENDED

Day 1 will end Tuesday, October 2nd at 9 PM.

Votecount
Imp - Rolepgeek
Squill -
lukeinator - Imp
Rolepgeek -
kleril - Deathsword
superblackcat - Mr.Zero
Mr.Zero -
Deathsword
griffinpup -

No lynch -
Not voting - Squill, lukeinator, superblackcat, griffinpup

0 votes to extend. 4 needed to extend
0 votes to shorten 5 needed to shorten

Day 1 will end Tuesday, October 1st at 9 PM.
Day 1 will end in about 9 hours.
griffinpup has been prodded again.

Err, does that 'Day 1 will end in about 9 hours' belong in this post still?  While I'm wondering about time, Day 1 ends at 9 PM in which timezone?
Is it even possible to replace our IC griffinpup, as there are no IC replacements waitlisted?  What happens if it is not possible?

Nope. Day now ends October 2nd 9 PM PST.
griffinpup said he'll post soon and if he doesn't I'll have to beg someone to replace him.

I'm extending the day by one day because I have a midterm on Wednesday. Also the midterm is scheduled to end at 9 PM so day might end slightly later than that.

[Imp]

@zombie urist:

DAY MOD-EXTENDED
0 votes to extend. 4 needed to extend
I'm extending the day by one day because I have a midterm on Wednesday. Also the midterm is scheduled to end at 9 PM so day might end slightly later than that.

Just in case you missed it, there were two Extend votes placed -

Speaking of that.

Extend more!

I am perfectly willing to support anyone's request for an extension still.

Unless you reset the count to 0 when you Mod-extended?

@all:
I remain open to supporting anyone's request for an extension if anyone wants an even longer day, especially as Griffinpup/Griffinpup's replacement will be joining us soon.... but still not yet.

[Mr.Zero]

Extend, crunching up something atm but you happened to ask for it.

[Mr.Zero]

@Superblackcat

The only person who responded to this, MrZero, Blew it off. There is no reason to hide it, yet he is trying to hide it.
Top FOS: MrZero, Because he asked a very funny at the beginning (or a few) and then blew this question off, while showing that he saw it, seems like He is trying to hide who he wants dead.

Yes i blew it off, but then again. A lot of people didn't even bother to answer that question, Imp did, if you would've taken the time to read his posts. (Imp i love your writing style, shame my english sucks a bit.)

I gave you my top FoS, which happens to be you. I suppose i could give out my top town which is Rolepgeek.

Frankly, Looking at Mr Zero's question, He was attacking me for one of my answer's, which was a response to all the questions asked at the beginning of the game. Which were mostly, How come you play mafia?, How did you do last game? And other questions such as that. I personally believe those to be useless, and as you can see, I am participating within the question asking. However, I'm not asking questions, that you ask, such as "What would you do if X?". Throughout my time playing mafia, I have not found it particularly useful. I believe the first half of the question to be Meta, which would bias people wrongly, especially if they were actually mafia last game. No matter how hard it is not to be biased, they would be. That's why I try to ignore all posts that ask those questions.

Who are you to disregard the importance of a question? If you were a person like Jim Grooverster, then yes you could say 'fuck this question', but ONLY because he has played mafia for so long that he knows what's important and what's not.

I do agree however that some questions are of little importance, like 'Favorite color, role,etc', even then it does not hurt to answer the question. But in my opinion i asked reasonable questions which at the very least could receive a one line response.

Stuff about NL being the best choice of action.

That looks like a tempting suggestion, however there are a couple of problems i have with that suggestion.

ALL votes lose their pressuring-power. From my past experience voting pressure is THE best way to crack people and find scum and this.

So with the town having lost their voting pressure, we are left with a few tools of finding scum. Half of which we even cannot use correctly like properly scum hunting due to the BM thing. The only pressure left is the cop, if there is one at all. The cop has to reveal his findings in a way that it doesn't get him Nk'ed, or he has to roleclaim. Both scenario's result in a town disadvantage if not played correctly, which i assure you, will not be played correctly.

For my contradictions. I mean that every single forum has different norms for playing Mafia. I've never played on a forum where massive amount of question is the norm. To everyone. And so, I'm saying I'm not used to this style of mafia. On this forum. I'm quite used to mafia itself, however.

I also mean that I have never played this setup, and the jailkeeper is very different from the doctor, and will make a lot of what I do in other games hard to impossible. Such as cop outing, the doc protect. In this said mafia game, Cop outing is... Bad. Unless scum of course.

Here you speak again of this mafia being different. Alright, we get it. Understand that we ourselves aren't exactly familiar with it as well. So mentioning inexperience is not a valid defense in my view, no matter if it's your first,second or even third time.

Take ^ how you want. I'm pleading for my case, because the two most active people in this game is after me, and I'm not mafia.

Neither am i, but so far you 'seem' the most scum-like because of the way you play, which is kind passive/defensive with the occasional question to look like you're not doing nothing.

@MrZero

-snip-

Where have I attached myself to the findings of others? The only spot you can say this, is where someone called you out on your first post, and I called you out on it myself, sometime later. I do believe that was scummy, and ...?

I've meant to say "trying to", pardon me if this has caused any confusion. Anyhow, the underlined part. Are you claiming that you aren't even trying to do that?

Yes, I don't have as much suspicion. But enlighten me, Why don't you want to tell me who you FOS, who you think is Town? That does not hurt anyone. And it give people much more insight, IMO, than the question you guys are asking. That is how I hunt scum, and you just refused to answer my question.

 

See earlier answer. But now, i can ask this.

Why didn't you answer some of the questions you considered 'dumb'? It gives people so much more insight,while irrelevant to you, it is relevant to them.



More maybe to come, sifting trough some other posts.

[Mr.Zero]

Err to add to my previous post, i didn't underline the entire first sentence.

[Squill]

@Imp:
1: Probably you, as you are by far the one who posts the most. It means that you are either a. A scum, furiously working to appear useful to the town, or b., a townie who is extremely active, and very aggressive with pressuring; which makes you seem like an important target for scum, and a large loss to town if you are killed.

2: I'm still thinking about this one, I'll get back when I figure something out.

@Imp: Crap, sorry, I forgot about this.  I'd still have to say you, as you are either a deceptive scum or an important townie.

[zombie urist]

Day extended to Thursday, October 3rd at 9pm PST

Just in case you missed it, there were two Extend votes placed -

Yeah I missed it. 

[Lukeinator]

@Luke, What do you think should be done today, What should we be doing, Who do you think is Scum?

To be honest, I think what should be done is to not lynch anybody, and see who survives the night, but I don't think I will. As for Scum Imp seems pretty suspicious, lynching people for not having a lot of time on one night.


@Imp: If you have won any other games, were town or scum and what game was it?

[Imp]

This is your first game of mafia?

@Imp: If you have won any other games, were town or scum and what game was it?

I have never before played Mafia, not by forum, in person, or any other means.  Nor Epic Mafia, nor Mafia by any other name.

The question you and a few other people may be working towards asking is this:  Imp, if you've never played Mafia before, why and how are you playing like you are?

The answer to that one is I'm very much not new to situations requiring me to evaluate and manipulate crowd behavior to pick out the intentions of those in the crowd, and help direct the behavior of the group.  At one time I worked as a restaurant manager (and caught employee theives as well as picked out people intending to harrass other customers, walk out on their bills, and otherwise ready to explode and needing tlc; I've been ready to stop that stuff right at the beginning of trouble because I noticed hints of it starting to happen before situations exploded, and I am simply always watching), at one time I worked as a telemarketer (you think we're supicious of each other in this game?  Try that job for a few years, EVERYONE REALLY REALLY HATES YOU, and you're expected to work through that to convince people to spend money the way you suggest despite it being so very, very easy just to hang up), and I've actually been in a few real life situations where I and others around me could have died if the situations were not handled by someone, and hey, I'm someone and I really don't want to die or watch others die.  I was an abused child and went through years of therapy; I've played a lot of D&D, as well as ran quite a few games;  I've played a LOT of all sorts of games in general, some of which have involved deception and detection of that in one way or another as part of play, and I'm around 40 (life experience quantity) and utterly fascinated by psychology and behavior, both my own and others, and am highly interested in a lot of the rest of life too.

In shortest - I'm a newbie playing like this because I'm me, and currently absolutely fascinated by this new to me game.  It's getting my all, rawr!

@Lukeinator:

Imp ... lynching people for not having a lot of time on one night.

*snort*  Good, you've got some spirit.  First off, I voted for you, but I can't lynch you, most 100% certainly not by myself.  Second, Pick any 'night' (we're talking real life nights right?) that you didn't have a lot of time on.  Write your inactivity and lackluster attempts to scum hunt completely off for that ONE NIGHT - now, what about all the other nights that we've had since the game started?

Or do you just mean that 'by Monday night' I specified?  Ehh, get active, guy.  Just start doing something, anything; in this game the only player who looks lazier than you right now is Griffinpup.  Grrrrrrrrrrrr, Griffinpup.

Big clue - I can't lynch you by myself, no matter what.  However, I've stated that I'm going to try and get everyone to agree that you should be first lynch - IF YOU DON'T START HUNTING - because you're acting like silent-hiding scum.  Now, do I -really really really mean it-?  For now, I leave you to guess.  Am I using pressure to try and get you to stop hiding/attempt to convince, persuade, and/or provoke you to be active?  YES

Course, if you stop acting like silent-hiding scum, then you won't look like one.  The true Townies won't have to wonder anymore about what a great hiding spot your position has been and continues to be.  Won't have to wonder about how little you've been contributing to the scumhunt.  So stand up and get to helping.  Whoever Town is, Town need -everyone's- help.  If you're Town, act like it.  As is, you seem Scum or a Townie so terribly passive, you're a waste of a lynch but a needed lynch none-the-less.  Am I convinced you should be our first lynch?  Again, for now, not going to confirm that.  You really want to find out?  Keep acting like a little-scared-hiding Scum.  But that won't be good for Town, if you are Town.

I don't care who you hunt.  Hunt me, sure.  I recommend you don't -only- hunt me, but you SHOULD be suspicious and actively hunting, period.  That you are not makes me extremely suspicious of you.  Needlessly?  Nope, there's need.  But your behavior can help a lot, if you change it.

@zombie_urist:
About that Griffinpup - we've had to do without that player, be he Town or Scum, for almost a full week of discussion now.  I don't know what 'soon' means, but his continued absence is making my strategies and plans feel all weird.  Is there any chance you might consider a modkill, considering the sheer length of time his spot has been utterly silent?  This game really feels to me now like there's only 8 players, not 9.

@Squill:

I'll make sure to do some questions at some point, but for now I'm just answering questions while I'm at my computer.

"At some point"?  Umm... which one are you waiting for, exactly?  How many is "some questions"? 

Also....

Until I notice something that seems suspicious, I'm just going to try and avoid causing more confusion than is necessary.

Do you mean you feel that Town is better served by your active attempts to avoid confusion, rather than your active attempts to try to scum hunt?

How do you feel about your scumhunting in this game?  Are you satisfied with how much your actions are helping Town as a whole?

And... lunch break's over.  Back to work I go.

[Squill]

@Luke, What do you think should be done today, What should we be doing, Who do you think is Scum?

To be honest, I think what should be done is to not lynch anybody, and see who survives the night, but I don't think I will. As for Scum Imp seems pretty suspicious, lynching people for not having a lot of time on one night.

@Lukeinator: Where's your actual evidence? He has no way to know your schedule, and even on other nights you have been fairly inactive, even more so than me. To me, that really doesn't make Imp see suspicious, but right now it looks like the only reason you think he is suspicious because he's pressuring you.

[kleril]

I'd be down for an extend as well.

@Imp

Kleril:  What bandwagon does my vote seem to be going along with?

Alright, I figured out why my behavior has seemed so strange and unexplained. I screwed up and thought the vote Deathsword had placed was in fact a vote against him, and so when you voted for him after his, I thought you were placing a second vote against him. Please excuse my stupidity.

Quick @ZU: Could you maybe change the formatting on the vote count to make it a little clearer who's voting for who?

Back to
@Imp:

That's really hard to ignore - Isn't that Scum reasoning?  Why would a Town player be scared of someone they are convinced is also a Town player?

I mean to say that you've eradicated any gut feeling I have about your being scum, and so on a subconscious level I believe you are town. On the other hand, this is making alarm bells go off in my conscious mind that if you are scum, then we're screwed, because of how trustworthy you feel. I don't believe anyone town will be trying to vote you off from this point forward, and this may be our downfall.

@Deathsword:
Where've you run off to? Your activity has been pretty low the past little while.
What do you think about how this current game is playing out?

@Rolepgeek:
Same goes for you, bud.
Question: What do you think the best way to contribute as town is?


@Luke:

@Lukeinator:

This is a completely hypothetical pair of questions...[snip]

I would tell them to chose someone who isn't the Rolecop, or a Mafia.

Can you try to actually answer this question, and not blow it off like this?

@Blackcat:

@All Could everyone list out their top FOSes (If you have more than one as of now) and top TOWNies (If you have more than one)

Top FOS: MrZero, Because he asked a very funny at the beginning (or a few) and then blew this question off, while showing that he saw it, seems like He is trying to hide who he wants dead.

Why are you attacking JUST zero for blowing this question off? It's fair to assume that most of us have seen it, and almost a guarantee for the more active posters here.

I agree with what kleril said about Imp.

Care to be a little more specific as to what you agree with?

@All: What have you enjoyed most, so far, of this current game?

[Rolepgeek]

Gah. Sorry. I have like two minutes to do this. I got a girlfriend. >.> I really wish I could respond, but when I say two minutes, I mean my internet will shut down in two minutes, and I'd rather not give hasty answers, and I'd rather not not post. I'll vote for an extend, too.

[zombie urist]

Quick @ZU: Could you maybe change the formatting on the vote count to make it a little clearer who's voting for who?

No because this is the way all votecounts are done.

@zombie_urist:
About that Griffinpup - we've had to do without that player, be he Town or Scum, for almost a full week of discussion now.  I don't know what 'soon' means, but his continued absence is making my strategies and plans feel all weird.  Is there any chance you might consider a modkill, considering the sheer length of time his spot has been utterly silent?  This game really feels to me now like there's only 8 players, not 9.

Yeah he's now up for replace.

2 votes to extend.
Please note day has already been extended to Thursday.

griffinpup is up for replace