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[Mesa]

"What if..."

The question that has been bothering humanity for a damn long time.

I would write some more, but I'm on my phone right now, so it isn't very feasible, so...
Space Soviets, anyone?

[PatriotSaint]

Alternate History Scenario #-1

- Sean Penn visits Cuba
- Does not come back
- Everyone is happy, except for the Cuban government, they just wanted the celebrity support, not... this...
- HISTOOORRYYYYYY

- Dennis Rodman visits North Korea
- does not come back
- NOBODY SURPRISED
- Dennis wins 2 chess games, but he does it one chess game; he forgot the "no playing anything with Leader" suggestion.
- PRISON CAMP
- Propoganda from a cell!
- HISTOOORRYYYYYY

[Guardian G.I.]

"What if..."

The question that has been bothering humanity for a damn long time.

I would write some more, but I'm on my phone right now, so it isn't very feasible, so...
Space Soviets, anyone?

We've had several alternative history threads before, which never took off because no one was interested.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Space Soviets". Soviets have been in space numerous times. Their space missions weren't as flashy as American ones, but not in any way less important for science.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if Soviet engineers managed to fix the technical flaws of the N1 rocket, and the Soviet cosmonauts landed on the moon (perhaps simultaneously with American astronauts).
I think it would allow Russian and American patriots today to endlessly argue about who faked their lunar landings.

[PatriotSaint]

He meant "Space Soviets" like "Space Nazis".

[Mesa]

He meant "Space Soviets" like "Space Nazis".

Basically this.
I couldn't elaborate on that very well when I was writing this from the phone, but basically, what if Soviets won the space race and got to the Moon first?

That could lead to subversion of the Aliens Speaking English trope, too. (maybe?)

[Nadaka]

He meant "Space Soviets" like "Space Nazis".

Basically this.
I couldn't elaborate on that very well when I was writing this from the phone, but basically, what if Soviets won the space race and got to the Moon first?

That could lead to subversion of the Aliens Speaking English trope, too. (maybe?)

You mean, before the Nazi's?

[mainiac]

Space Soviets, anyone?

I was recently at the National Air and Space Museum in DC and was amused by a wall timeline and American, Soviet and Other space firsts.  The Americans landed on the moon and then just trailed off while the Soviets kept doing stuff.  So there was the better part of a decade where it was all Soviet and eventually Other.  At the end of the timeline was a little plaque saying how America was totally gonna return to space now that the space shuttle was ready to do awesome stuff.  They should really update that exhibit.

The Soviets did do a lot of stuff with orbital space stations after the Apollo landing.  That's what laid the framework for the International Space station today.  I think the more interesting question is what if the Americans had stayed in the space race after Apollo instead of falling into the sinkhole that was the space shuttle.

[PatriotSaint]

Off-topic, but I've just gotta say, if NK ever happened upon a "viable" space program, it would be frighteningly similar to what you see in your head after the words "Kerbal Space Program".

[Guardian G.I.]

Space Soviets, anyone?

I was recently at the National Air and Space Museum in DC and was amused by a wall timeline and American, Soviet and Other space firsts.  The Americans landed on the moon and then just trailed off while the Soviets kept doing stuff.  So there was the better part of a decade where it was all Soviet and eventually Other.  At the end of the timeline was a little plaque saying how America was totally gonna return to space now that the space shuttle was ready to do awesome stuff.  They should really update that exhibit.

The Soviets did do a lot of stuff with orbital space stations after the Apollo landing.  That's what laid the framework for the International Space station today.  I think the more interesting question is what if the Americans had stayed in the space race after Apollo instead of falling into the sinkhole that was the space shuttle.

Probably the US or the Soviet Union would try to establish a base on the moon and eventually begin developing spacecraft for manned missions to Mars, starting up the Race to Mars.

[burningpet]

I always liked to imagine what would have happened if columbus had reached cuba, but had his entire expedition captured never to return to europe. the following scenario is that it could have taken another 200 years of other attempts at sailing west, again, only to be captured never to return. the repercussions of such events, could have introduced the wheel and the deep sea faring to the americans empires of the time and gave them enough time to recoup the losses that the european plagues brought upon them.

I think that even 200 years would have not been enough for the native americans to be able to come to the same level of technology europe had and eventually, some form of colonization would have due to happen anyway, but to a much lesser extent and with the native americans keeping their sit of powers at the larger empires. obviously, such an event, or, non event would have had an effect on the entire world, which is too complicated to predict. what would have happened with europe without the american gold and other resources? what were of the black africans, if there wasen't the same need of slaves? could europe gain its advantage over the ottomans?

[nenjin]

If we hadn't bombed Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

I wonder if the total war dead after Japan surrendered would equal the civilian casualties of the bomb.

[Nadaka]

If we hadn't bombed Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

I wonder if the total war dead after Japan surrendered would equal the civilian casualties of the bomb.

It would likely have far far outweighed them, by several million.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

If we hadn't bombed Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

I wonder if the total war dead after Japan surrendered would equal the civilian casualties of the bomb.

That all depends on Japan's willingness to surrender. If they never actually did, or it took occupying the whole island, the casualties would have been dramatically higher. We'd also probably have a Communist North Japan and Capitalist South Japan.

If they surrendered once there was a significant show of force to demonstrate the seriousness of the invasion, or has some have (in my opinion, fallaciously) suggested, before there was any mainland invasion; the casualties would be less. Japan probably would not have surrendered to the USSR over the USA, but that's a What If in and of itself.

[USEC_OFFICER]

If we hadn't bombed Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

I wonder if the total war dead after Japan surrendered would equal the civilian casualties of the bomb.

That all depends on Japan's willingness to surrender. If they never actually did, or it took occupying the whole island, the casualties would have been dramatically higher. We'd also probably have a Communist North Japan and Capitalist South Japan.

If they surrendered once there was a significant show of force to demonstrate the seriousness of the invasion, or has some have (in my opinion, fallaciously) suggested, before there was any mainland invasion; the casualties would be less. Japan probably would not have surrendered to the USSR over the USA, but that's a What If in and of itself.

If I remember correctly, the Japanese government had sent several overtures of peace to the US through the USSR, but the US ignored those overtures for some reason or another (the USSR turning around and declaring war on Japan in a obvious bid to grab land certainly didn't help matters). So Japan was willing to surrender/make peace even before an invasion of the mainland. However I have no clue what the conditions of peace would be, or how the military hardliners would react in the event of a peace. I could easily see Japan becoming destabilized after the war depending on the terms of the peace treaty.

[10ebbor10]

I always liked to imagine what would have happened if columbus had reached cuba, but had his entire expedition captured never to return to europe. the following scenario is that it could have taken another 200 years of other attempts at sailing west, again, only to be captured never to return. the repercussions of such events, could have introduced the wheel and the deep sea faring to the americans empires of the time and gave them enough time to recoup the losses that the european plagues brought upon them.

I think that even 200 years would have not been enough for the native americans to be able to come to the same level of technology europe had and eventually, some form of colonization would have due to happen anyway, but to a much lesser extent and with the native americans keeping their sit of powers at the larger empires. obviously, such an event, or, non event would have had an effect on the entire world, which is too complicated to predict. what would have happened with europe without the american gold and other resources? what were of the black africans, if there wasen't the same need of slaves? could europe gain its advantage over the ottomans?

Contrary to often popular belief, Columbus was neither the first, nor the only one to (attempt to) discover the New World. It might have delayed the eventual colonization by a few years, but it wouldn't be long before another idiot tried it, or even a Portugese trader blown out of course to stumble upon Brazilia.

That being said, the major problem for American civilizations was the extinction of the horse. This prevented fast, long range communication, and made forming , progressive civilizations significantly harder.

However, let us assume that the Americas were never colonized, or in fact never discovered. The Gold and Bullion crisis would have worsened, but I assume that Africa, and part of the Indies would take on the role of the Americas.