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[Parsely]

IT IS CLEARLY SOLIFUGE.

[Solifuge]

A rant about reference and realism

What is realism? When a camera captures photons bouncing off me, is it capturing the real me? Ultimately, you will probably be viewing a 24-bit image of me where the dark and bright colors have been cropped off. One day we can probably build a really advanced camera which captures all kinds of light, radiation and emissions. Is this enough for a realistic portrayal? It's a question of semantics I suppose. A photo is "photo real", perhaps like the senses of a slug are "slug real".

The representation of me in my brain feels real to me. A photograph of me feels fake and superficial. When I look at other people, I don't just see the light reflected off their bodies. I see what mood they are in because of something which happened earlier, and a movement they are about to make. I could be focused on very subtle changes in their face. I see things which a single frame wouldn't capture. There are also things which I don't see, such as what mood a person is actually in.

I can imagine that back in the days when the camera was invented, some superstitious people may have thought that a camera would capture your soul. I don't think that a camera does that, but I think that, perhaps, art can. Well, not in an evil way I hope.

There's anime where the characters suddenly become super deformed with exaggerated emotions. Is this unrealistic, or an effective way to show their true emotional state better? There's also the cartoons where someone is bumped on the head and gets a huge swelling. A bump on the head probably won't show up clearly on photos, but it can certainly feel huge. So called unrealistic art can portray things which feels very real to us.

Even if you set out to do a "photo realistic" painting for some reason, it's possible that it will still look off even though you followed the reference material slavishly. Perhaps the photos which you used were badly taken. Maybe the person in the photo has really small hands or an asymmetrical face. Our eyes and brain manipulates the images which we see in various ways. A white paper on a table before us looks white and square. A photograph will probably give the paper a blatant yellow tint and a fisheye curve. So, what we see and memorize as real is not necessarily that close to what's out there.

If you're attempting to paint a generic pretty woman photo realistically, then it's quite possible that you'll have to play Frankenstein with some parts to create that feeling of photo realism. People who see the painting have a certain... normalized idea of a human which they expect to see.

In conclusion, I think that, to excuse the things which looks wrong on your painting with "that's how it looks on the reference" is to do yourself a huge disservice as an artist.

Some words from one of my favorite illustrators, just to help convey where I'm coming from when I talk about realism, and doing art from references. I don't mean that photorealism is the greatest form of art, or one which everyone should strive toward. I mean to learn to look at the world, find your subject in it, and extract the substance from it. Drawing a war-torn city? Look at some local abandoned buildings in person. Drawing an alien critter? Learn how insect joints and bird legs connect, and think about the elements that make them work that way. Once you're good at that, you can recombine that substance in your mind, and make new things. I don't have a good art vocabulary, because I only had a bit of formal training when I was young, but hopefully what I mean is carried across.

I have just figured out that Solifuge is secretly a camel spider!

Damnit, the secret's out. *skitters away under a sandy rock*

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, I think we're on the same wavelength in a lot of ways. I advocate drawing from drawings and really putting thought into "copying" the piece (definitely not tracing, tracing isn't educational in any of the ways you'd need to really benefit from the exercise) is important.

I think something that would be really useful as an art exercise is to to get a photograph, and then get someone's drawing of that photograph in a stylized way, look at both of them, then put away the drawing and try to recreate it just from the photograph - try to figure out what he was seeing when he looked at the picture, try to figure out what pieces are actually important to get the feel of his reproduction, and which pieces need to be discarded because they get in the way.

Vector (or anyone else who's up for it), if you... don't mind, I'd actually rather like to try this exercise experiment out.

[Vector]

You should probably do it with Solifuge or someone else who's actually talented.  I don't think you'd learn much from looking at mine.

[Parsely]

I have just figured out that Solifuge is secretly a camel spider!

Damnit, the secret's out. *skitters away under a sandy rock*

This is the best thing.

So what am I Eotyrannus?

[Solifuge]

I was thinking I'd join you, but not in the sense of providing an example of stylized art. I'm way too self-conscious about my art to feel good about using it as a teaching material. Like, I'm a bit nervous just thinking about it. I feel like I'm still learning.

But if you can find a good example of something like that, I'd be happy to participate in the exercise!

[GlyphGryph]

Solifuge, we could always do one for each other!

I was thinking I'd join you, but not in the sense of providing an example of stylized art. I'm way too self-conscious about my art

Also, you KNOW this is always a bad thing to say!

[Darkmere]

I'd be interested but I have no current way of getting whatever I do online. I could probably get a pic with my digicam, but you'll have to keep in mind I've got a grand total of about 8 hours' experience in my entire life (I did the same thing Vector did, hour or so a day for a few days), so it'll be amateur at best.

So... any suggestions?

Re: knowledge of form over copy n paste:

Any learned endeavor works this way. My biggest obstacle with math was that I was never taught theory behind what I did. It seems after a certain point you're just supposed to memorize the rules and do the same operations by rote to pass tests. I completely flopped at guitar because I had no formal lessons and tried to teach myself from tablature.... when I figured out how awful my technical form was, I gave up rather than unlearn everything I'd learned wrong for more than a year. The problem is my education system teaches to standardized tests instead of teaching people how to learn and [RANT EXPUNGED].

The best part about the resources I linked earlier is getting foundational theory in a fun (with a pencil) or practical (about.com) way that I could immediately put to work. I have a long way to go, but I've come so far in a week that what I draw is unfamiliar to me, in a good way.

[Vector]

I'd be willing to do it if we had multiple inexperienced artists stylizing something.  Like, at least two other than me.

So,

1. Darkmere
2. Vector
3. [Your name here!]

[Tiruin]

...Alright, telling the truth, the first second I saw that post I wanted to hit quick reply and opt IN already, but then RL busy-ness and my unsure-ity on whether my art quality is good enough for you and stuff on that matter (I'm unsure! D:)...I can provide examples >_>

..Meh, I'm all in for that. In a few weeks after now though.

[Xazo-Tak]

Try charging into drawing blindly, just to check if you've got any preinstalled drawing knowledge.
I did that with drawing humanoids recently and found that I already had the skill for body shapes, which should be a very useful starting point.

[Shook]

If there's room for one more, i could hop in as well. I mean, i definitely fit the bill for inexperienced artist. :I

[Eotyrannus]

I have just figured out that Solifuge is secretly a camel spider!

Damnit, the secret's out. *skitters away under a sandy rock*

This is the best thing.

So what am I Eotyrannus?

You are a perfectly average Bay12-er. Therefore, you are a human that thinks they are a mantis trolling the hell out of that one guy. However, you are actually a lizard, and the quantity of alcohol and Fun consumed indicates that you are a dwarf. So, in reply to what you are, Bay12ers are crimes against nature.

Okay, back from secrets of the identities of Bay12-ers and onto the topic...

See this fish here?

This is an icthyodectid fish. Search Xiphactinus or icthyodectid. NOW DRAW, MIND-SLAVE, DRAAAAAAAW! It should provide a nice base for things such as grasp of shape and proportions.

[Darkmere]

Oooooh, that's interesting. I have to spend the next few hours digging a muddy hole in the ground (water main to the house broke.... again), so I'll see if I have energy to try this later on. May be a day or two before I get something posted, though. Fair warning.

[Vector]

Maybe GlyphGryph could provide a reference photo or whatever and we could all replicate it?