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Author Topic: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I  (Read 12240 times)

Vector

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #180 on: October 06, 2013, 12:14:46 am »

Yeah, in 2b the chin is too low, the jaw goes too far back, and because of it the cheekbone isn't where it should be and the ear is totally misplaced. . . . the whole thing's been dilated horizontally.  Looks better than the side-faces used to, though.  But, like I said, drawing faces from the side has been one of my big demons for just about forever, so I'm going to work on that now until it's easy!

I think I just don't want to believe that human faces are actually so flat and lacking in depth.  But they kind of are.
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freeformschooler

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #181 on: October 06, 2013, 12:19:23 am »

Reality is boring.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #182 on: October 07, 2013, 03:02:25 pm »

Everybody hates drawing hands.
Lies! Some people love drawing hands! Admittedly, those people are super-weird. I've known several people who just fill up notebooks full of hands in different poses - once you start digging in, it's basically the whole "face" thing again where you need to relearn everything about proportions to make it look good. But hands are still better than feet...

Also, this next part may just me talking out of my ass, but...
For the chins and noses, when doing character designs remember that the most important thing is consistency - it can look pretty damn weird and out of proportion, but if you have three images where it's in different poses but still following the same rules, no one will think so because we acclimate quickly. It turns out in real life most people have facial features that are pretty weird and out of proportion, especially in regards to jawlines! And you'll want to actually exaggerate most of those in practice anyway so it's easier to distinguish your characters from one another at a glance - if the change is so subtle that you can't detect it from a silhouette of the face, you're probably better making it a bit more obvious.

This... isn't something many manga-style and american comics book artists do all that well. Often intentionally, since it makes the workload easier and thus cheaper to insure every artist can draw one face in multiple different ways and then just use that face for every character - audiences tend to pick up inconstancies between angles here much, much more quickly than inconsistencies between clothing or hair. But this is for industrial environments, where output is more important than variety, and in high quality manga and anime that focuses on good artwork you will almost always see this principle become important again. When you get to departments or individuals with big budgets or lots of time who really value the artwork, you can see it come out again very quickly, because most artists recognize the value of having an identifying silhouette, not just for the body but for every piece of the body - the face, the clothes, the hair, the hips, even the hands (depending on how detailed you want to go). Not all of those details need to be visible in every rendition of the character, of course, but it's important they exist.

For example, take Monster (art by Naoki Urasawa, who is amazing as he both wrote the series, which is quite good, AND did all the designs and most of the artwork, and clearly has no concept of "economy of effort", heh):


That's some beautiful variety right there - you could identify every one of these characters just from their face outline. Hell, you could identify most of them simply from their nose OR their jawline OR their eyes, And that's the sort of thing you should be trying to aim for - don't fall into the trap of thinking "faces need to look just so".

Just because faces are generally flatter than you might expect doesn't mean you have to make them boring. ;)

Although as you get better you'll realize there are actually ways to give characters exactly identical features and still, somehow, make them look like completely different people. As an example, see any artist who handles the "mind swap" thing well, because some of the work I've seen done there is incredible, where you can literally see, visually, just in the way the character holds their face muscles and neck and shoulder the difference between the characters. But that is way beyond the league of my ability to encourage or even identify how the hell they do it, heh.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 03:15:46 pm by GlyphGryph »
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Tiruin

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #183 on: October 08, 2013, 01:46:02 am »

Yeah, in 2b the chin is too low, the jaw goes too far back, and because of it the cheekbone isn't where it should be and the ear is totally misplaced. . . . the whole thing's been dilated horizontally.  Looks better than the side-faces used to, though.  But, like I said, drawing faces from the side has been one of my big demons for just about forever, so I'm going to work on that now until it's easy!

I think I just don't want to believe that human faces are actually so flat and lacking in depth.  But they kind of are.

On the note of flatness, I really believe its in the miniscule shades a person puts in order to make the face stand out. Some people have flat faces, and some others don't. :P

I believe its in how genetic diversity goes, perhaps? Try studying the structure of the skull to help...I'm pretty unsure how to add to the suggestions here given that I..err, learned part of my drawing skills from anatomical studies. Bones and all that fun with muscles.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #184 on: October 15, 2013, 12:42:16 pm »

So, how goes it, √ectpr?
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Solifuge

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #185 on: October 15, 2013, 02:29:23 pm »

I've been working my way through a drawing instruction manual from 1870. It's a little dated, but I like the emphasis on technique, muscle and line control, and even writing and calligraphy, which are all things I'd like to work on. And since it's old, it's public domain, meaning it's available freely on the internet.

Just thought I'd share.
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Knight of Fools

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #186 on: October 15, 2013, 07:14:10 pm »

I've actually sat down and started drawing stuff more often thanks to this thread. Not quite ready to post my drawings (Done in Photoshop with a tablet), but I'm rather pleased with how they're turning out so far. Today I finally figured out a method of shading in Photoshop that I was comfortable with, and it's got me pretty happy with myself. Faces no longer look like they've been ravaged by fire after I shade them.

I've mostly been drawing women since that's where my people-drawing skills are weakest. Before I kind of haphazarded my way through womens' faces and breasts, and now they look like something a real human might have. It's strangely therapeutic looking at a woman in an aesthetic way rather than a sexual way.
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Vector

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #187 on: October 16, 2013, 12:16:35 am »

Eh, I'm too anxious to draw right now.  I've kind of given up on it for the present.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

RedKing

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #188 on: October 16, 2013, 12:44:51 am »

Drawing is one of those things that is utterly alien to me. I can't even draw a decent damn stick figure. I've always sort of looked at friends who could draw as some kind of wizards, wielding arcane powers that us Muggles just don't have.

My six-year old, meanwhile, is turning into a pretty decent artist for her age. There's a certain weird feeling that comes of watching your child do something you know you couldn't do if your life depended on it. Like draw. Or swim. It's a mixture of pride and fear.
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Bauglir

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #189 on: October 16, 2013, 02:20:17 am »

I take it the fear is for when our Merfolk overlords force us to participate in deep-sea drawing competitions for the right to breathe air.
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RedKing

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Re: Sanctuary for Awful Artists and Those With Scarce Self-Esteem :I
« Reply #190 on: October 16, 2013, 09:14:59 am »

No, it's more of a "I'm getting pwned in life skills by a SIX-YEAR-OLD" kind of fear.
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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