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[Neonivek]

Ok then here is a game... Create a scenario where it is possible for the document to be 100% factual.

That would be the best evidence against it.

Often the convolutions show themselves only when you explain the possibility.

[Flying Dice]

Once again, where did the rebels get the weaponry from if they could possibly have? And where is the statements from Syrian media to corroborate this line of thought? I'll give you all a while.

The point we're trying to make isn't that the rebels obvious did it with some sort of absurdly complex plan, but that it's irresponsible to assume that just because it's probable that Assad (or one of his commanders) was responsible automatically makes it so. At least until we have expert opinions and solid evidence. Half the point of ensuring that sufficient proof has been gathered is to discredit wild conspiracy theories, for crying out loud.

Or is it okay for us to just claim that the most obvious cause of something is the cause of it without any investigation? It's not us advocating some bloody stupid conspiracy theory, it's us wanting to be responsible people and have proof before we start calling for action or issuing vague condemnations from the comfort of our homes.

[GlyphGryph]

If it's anything other than home made nerve gas it is literally not possible for it to have been anyone other than the Syrian military, be it under Assad's command or a rogue platoon. I will eat my words if it turns out somehow Al Nusra [because the FSA would not] stole Syrian chemical weaponry and the state media said nothing about it. Because that is both highly improbable and stupid of Assad to not be plastering this evidence all over the world media.

Keep up with your conspiratorial thinking, I do not care. I enjoy seeing such things. I'd just wish it went to prisonplanet where it belonged.

Again, you keep fucking going on about this. The US is NOT supporting Assad gassing people. They just aren't doing it. It would be a stupid, ludicrous course of action, and there's no reason for them to have done it. You should really take these conspiracy theories where they belong, to the loony part of the internet, because they have no place here on bay12. I can't believe how many people here are supporting this type of garbage.

[Leafsnail]

On the other hand, there does seem to be significant evidence that the rebels were the ones who used the gas.

You still have not posted any of this evidence.  Where is this evidence?

[Leafsnail]

It's ok to backpedal in a debate but it's not ok to backpedal and then accuse other people of strawmanning because they responded to what you wrote, and not what you later decided you meant.

[GlyphGryph]

Oh, I'm sorry, are we actually having a discussion now? Have you decided to actually read my words before responding, and to respond to points I've actually made, instead of the ones you've conjured up as part of your charade?

Well fuck you. I honestly don't give a shit any more. You want to be a fucking asshole, prancing around with Mict arguing with imaginary ghosts, you should keep up with that, because as the gods' are my witness I'm certainly not going to engage you honestly now, knowing that no matter what I do or say you're going to go right back to arguing with leprechauns about bullshit and using it to "prove your points" - you've already proven yourself incapable of having a conversation. I understand the desire to backpedal on your claims, but it's not okay to backpedal and act like you never made the outlandish claims and arguments you did previously.

My participation in this thread with the two of you from this point forward will be by the rules you have dictated - you have decided this is the sort of substance-less argument you've wanted, this is the argument you're going to get. You could have tried having a legitimate conversation four pages ago, but unless I see something that doesn't just look like an excuse to extract a statement you can use in your war against people-who-aren't-really-here, I'm gonna have a tough time believing this is anything but another opportunity to shout me down while ignoring anything I actually say.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I can sense who's here to not have a discussion, mate.

On the other hand, there does seem to be significant evidence that the rebels were the ones who used the gas.

You still have not posted any of this evidence.  Where is this evidence?

I think this request is still open.

[mainiac]

Once again, where did the rebels get the weaponry from if they could possibly have? And where is the statements from Syrian media to corroborate this line of thought? I'll give you all a while.

They could have gotten it from the CIA, they have the autonomy to give people whatever the heck weapons they want without government consent.

Firstly your statement is just tautologically incorrect, the CIA is part of the government.
Secondly, the CIA answers to elected officials on the intelligence oversight committee and shit like this would get someone convicted of treason (and maybe warcrimes) if they did it without permission.
Thirdly the executive branch wields a huge deal of influence over the CIA not the least of which is choosing the head.  We just saw in the Iraq war how much the executive can get the CIA to do what it wants.

[Neonivek]

Secondly, the CIA answers to elected officials on the intelligence oversight committee and shit like this would get someone convicted of treason (and maybe warcrimes) if they did it without permission

Unless they outsource with private contracts.

" We just saw in the Iraq war how much the executive can get the CIA to do what it wants"

I'll put it like this. You can control the CIA's arms, but not its fingers.

[GlyphGryph]

I can sense who's here to not have a discussion, mate.

I'm certainly not, not anymore. I was feeling awfully lonely, since I was the only one interested. Since it doesn't matter what I say, why should I do anything but repeat back to you the same sort of stuff that has been flung at me? It's certainly a lot easier than actually reading, or thinking - hell, I didn't even read beyond this sentence of your post! I can see why it's such an appealing position for you and Leafsnail to have taken. What you are here for is obvious - to express your outrage, to belittle others, to achieve dominance. If this is going to be a competition to do those things, well, hey - I probably won't be able to win, I don't usually play those sort of games, but I might as well join in on the fun, right?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I can sense who's here to not have a discussion, mate.

I'm certainly not, not anymore. I was feeling awfully lonely, since I was the only one interested. Since it doesn't matter what I say, why should I do anything but repeat back to you the same sort of stuff that has been flung at me? It's certainly a lot easier than actually reading, or thinking - hell, I didn't even read beyond this sentence of your post! I can see why it's such an appealing position for you and Leafsnail to have taken.

You seem to have missed the point of a forum. Go make your own if yours is the only input you appreciate, thank you. You've shown you're not interested in the actual discussion at hand, while snarling and screaming how I'm strawmanning.

On the other hand, there does seem to be significant evidence that the rebels were the ones who used the gas.

You still have not posted any of this evidence.  Where is this evidence?

I think this request is still open.

[Frumple]

I'm certainly not, not anymore. I was feeling awfully lonely, since I was the only one interested. Since it doesn't matter what I say, why should I do anything but repeat back to you the same sort of stuff that has been flung at me?

Mostly because of this:

Do not pick a fight or insult another poster.  Do not continue a fight if you feel you have been insulted.  Report it to the moderator.  If you instead respond in kind, you run the risk of being considered part of the problem.

[mainiac]

Secondly, the CIA answers to elected officials on the intelligence oversight committee and shit like this would get someone convicted of treason (and maybe warcrimes) if they did it without permission

Unless they outsource with private contracts.

Yeah because congressional oversight doesn't count if you hire a contractor.

[GlyphGryph]

Well, lots of outright illegal stuff can certainly happen with a contractor (like with the ammo supply chain for our recent wars) - but sooner or later, generally sooner if there's any media attention, that stuff will come out and heads will roll. No matter how likely the military is to close their eyes or look the other way if a contractor is doing things that might not be strictly in keeping with the intended congressional oversight, that doesn't really extent to things that will obviously make them look bad. Providing gas to rebellious third parties?

That's not something that's going to be ignored. I'm not even sure how it would even be possible for a contractor to DO that, in this situation - I'm pretty sure "moving chemical weapons to the middle east" isn't the sort of thing that could slip under the radar.

[mainiac]

I'm pretty sure Fedex can handle that.