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Author Topic: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game  (Read 259171 times)

Cattani

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2130 on: November 22, 2013, 08:39:12 am »

I don't understand how that was avoidable. The mutagenic process is not perfect, but i can't see where we took stupid risks during the process. And we couldn't keep the kids purely human since we're a monster overlord by definition.
Can someone enlight me?
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Tomcost

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2131 on: November 22, 2013, 08:41:36 am »

Spoiler: My ramble for Imp (click to show/hide)

I don't understand how that was avoidable. The mutagenic process is not perfect, but i can't see where we took stupid risks during the process. And we couldn't keep the kids purely human since we're a monster overlord by definition.
Can someone enlight me?
We could have taken 0 risks by only using 1 mutagen on each kid. The risks weren't stupid, but they were there.

Knit tie

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2132 on: November 22, 2013, 08:47:08 am »

Don't forget me, I am one of the conscience players too!

And Tomcost, please don't leave. We may be the minority, but think about how bad things could have turned out without us to restrain those more psychopathic of suggesters! Really, everybody's main point seems that we treat our minions and subjects better than the heroes treat theirs, which is true. We cared, and still care, for all the children we mutated. And really, mutation/cogification has already been established as something Incognito sees as an ultimately good thing, even if he's wrong. What I personally disagree with, and bear with me, is that Shadenight has written his last update portraying us as a power mad sociopath and presenting the concept of mutating children as wrong, when it's the execution that we have to be morally concerned about. Really, I thought our evil self was well-established as a visionary who makes monsters for a better world, not because he is a megalomaniacal sadist. And hell, we are not! We care deeply for our underlings, we take good care of those who serve us! This is what differentiates us from heroes, our moral anchor around which all our claims of decency revolve! Why did we suddenly start acting like a psycho in that last update? We got written as a mad scientist who heartlessly experiments on his subjects, but that is not Incognito, who makes a point of always treating his servants with a mixture of paternal affection and battlefield camaraderie! We shouldn't have been portrayed as crossing the moral event horizon because we mutated the children, we should have been portrayed as crossing it for not even thinking about anesthetizing them before playing God with their genes. And really, we probably would have stopped after the fourth or so kid to tell Chemista to at least give them some painkillers beforehand.


This is either a gross misunderstanding between the GM and/or players and/or me, or somebody is deliberately fucking with our head. Probably the latter.

And as a conscience player, I repeat that we should feel guilty about causing all this pain. Deaths may have been random and unavoidable, but pain was completely unnecessary - just give the subject an intravenous injection and voila! Numb and unfeeling.

I do, however, say that we should not feel bad about the concept of mutating children itself.

Also, we should give our newly mutated children support and, in general, treat them at least as well as we did before.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 09:06:44 am by Knit tie »
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Tomcost

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2133 on: November 22, 2013, 08:52:18 am »

Well, we had agreed that mutants are not considered an inherently bad thing, so there's no problem with that.
The pain was avoidable, that's right, that is indeed a problem.
The deaths were avoidable too. We wanted to mutate the children, not make them weapons. Unless we actually wanted to make them soldiers, in which case we are throwing all that's left of our precious ethics right to the garbage.

I will take a more passive approach on releplay, I think, telling what is contradictory and what not.

Cattani

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2134 on: November 22, 2013, 09:01:45 am »

I think i'm one of the psychopath players? That seems like it fits, I've been called a monster, I should be the one refraining. Sorry about that.
Anyway, it seems like Imp agrees we need an unfortunate accident if that Ragnarok guy do not bend to us. What would you guys think? I'm divided as to destroying a kid, but he can be a problem. Thoughts?
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10ebbor10

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2135 on: November 22, 2013, 09:07:39 am »

but pain was completely unnecessary - just give the subject an intravenous injection and voila! Numb and unfeeling.
Truly, I doubt that it's that easy. After all, if it was, then why haven't we done so.
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Tomcost

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2136 on: November 22, 2013, 09:11:09 am »

I think i'm one of the psychopath players? That seems like it fits, I've been called a monster, I should be the one refraining. Sorry about that.
Anyway, it seems like Imp agrees we need an unfortunate accident if that Ragnarok guy do not bend to us. What would you guys think? I'm divided as to destroying a kid, but he can be a problem. Thoughts?
1) We already killed some children, killing another "on purpose" wouldn't be different. I still say that the other deaths could have been avoided.
2) I don't like him either, and by this time we are pretty much low on our standards, so I guess that he can be killed. Or even better, sacrificed, after breaking him.
3) I want to go back to the "no advisors unless we want one" mode so that we don't lose valuable minions like this

but pain was completely unnecessary - just give the subject an intravenous injection and voila! Numb and unfeeling.
Truly, I doubt that it's that easy. After all, if it was, then why haven't we done so.
Because we never had the idea?

Knit tie

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2137 on: November 22, 2013, 09:11:51 am »

I think i'm one of the psychopath players? That seems like it fits, I've been called a monster, I should be the one refraining. Sorry about that.
Anyway, it seems like Imp agrees we need an unfortunate accident if that Ragnarok guy do not bend to us. What would you guys think? I'm divided as to destroying a kid, but he can be a problem. Thoughts?

We should see what he can or will do first. Perhaps he is just feeling slightly unwell from being in excruciating pain for four hours straight.

Tomcost, I beg of you, please continue making suggestions. I agree with everything you have written so far, and plead you to stay as I alone cannot keep this game from devolving into typical "lolmagma" sociopathy players like Cattani (who wanted us to sacrifice our daughter) would like us to do.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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swordsmith04

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2138 on: November 22, 2013, 09:15:12 am »

Ashamed, guilty, and sad.

Mengele, indeed.

10ebbor10

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2139 on: November 22, 2013, 09:24:33 am »

but pain was completely unnecessary - just give the subject an intravenous injection and voila! Numb and unfeeling.
Truly, I doubt that it's that easy. After all, if it was, then why haven't we done so.
Because we never had the idea?
I'm 100% certain that I and several other players have proposed the idea of improving the mutagenic method several times. There's been no reaction on that, so I just assumed it was impossible.
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Tomcost

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2140 on: November 22, 2013, 09:26:13 am »

Nah, I will stay, I was just frustrated on how the different players cause an erratic behaviour in Incognito's ethics. Now I realize that it was cause becuase of how Shadenight wrote some things. It was when Shadenight begun describing how bad was the HEROES association, is when people started "we want to make a better society", and when he dropped that we went back to the usual sociopath shenanigans. I see that the main portion of the players are going through the pragmatically evil path, but a big chunk of them also is influenciable by plot.

This was a pretty interesting sociologic experience, to say the least.




On the pain subject: there appears to be a concensus on this, so maybe we should try to make the thing less like a trauma.

shadenight123

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2141 on: November 22, 2013, 09:30:12 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Splinter Cog doesn't need to be raced into finding the missing child.
He looks at you, then points a finger at Cerulean.
He doesn't say anything else as he disappears in the shadows with his three-green dots visor.

The Goldfish chuckles quietly. "All is falling, all is failing, a castle of madness, a castle of cards...no logic, no reason...no conscience...let go, let go...hero? Where? I see only monsters here. Monsters...monsters in human masks and humans in monsters' masks..."
You swallow.
After all you told Cerulean, she really wouldn't eat a child would she? She liked playing with them. She liked helping them. She wouldn't just eat a child, right?

But the possibility is there. There is a Cruelean somewhere in another dimension. The possibility for Cerulean to be cruel exists, and Splinter-Cog wouldn't lie, would he?
Maybe you just need to rest for a bit. It's late, your nerves are frayed, you need to catch your breath and go to sleep.
Yeah. You hand over to Psysquid one of the two 'nerve-relaxers' and then you swallow down the other one once you're in your bed.
You're going to catch some shut-eye, and tomorrow, when the sun will shine up high and bright, everything will be better.
Everything will be fine.
And the missing child will be found.
Yes.

Everything is fine.
You will not freak out in public.
You will hold on to your nerves in public.
Here however, here in your room, you can freak out.


You grip tightly at the pillow, biting onto it as your screams of anger, rage mix with the tears overflowing your eyes. What you did was horrible, but necessary! You feel rage and anger! You will have your revenge on those who forced you to do this!
YOU KNOW YOU ARE RIGHT!
But the guilt is there. What you did was horrible. You had a nice little list, with numbers and checkers, and you used it to see what would happen.
You can't ignore it. It's there. On the side of your bed-desk. The list.
The list. The list. Just like cattle sent to the butcher. A nice little list and off they went into the arms of the chair, tied as the needle came down in.
Doesn't that make it all the better? Now you know what happens when you mix this with that. You just lost some children...but does it matter? They were all complying. They all accepted. They all knew the risks but you were the Overlord, and you made their lives better.
And so they followed you.
How many more will follow you towards their deaths? Haven't you lost so many cogs now? They don't have 'souls' or 'lives' but...had they been human minions, how many? How many corpses and crosses would you need to bury them?
You are fighting a war.
You must win it, for it's the only way to have a better future. Even if...even if you will be the very last Overlord, even if you will pay the price of all you have done of evil along the way...you will bring this to an end.

You grow tired, your breathing slowing down as the Goldfish has apparently stopped floating around your head to simply look at you. You stop biting onto the tattered remains of your pillow and drop down on your bed.

You sleep...but the sleep is not uneventful.

You stand in a room filled with white.
Filled with mechanisms that tick and twirl and swirl in their silvery like presence.
You feel empty, and weightless. It's as if a shallow breathe would be enough to send you flying.
You look around, trying to find a reason for this.
Trying to find what this is, because it's a dream.
The goldfish is now bigger. He is as big as a large dog, and yet he swims around you. He swims and he smiles. How nice, he must have a perfect dental coverage judging by how white and sharp his teeth are.

"Judge, Jury, Executioner," the Goldfish swims lazily. "Judge, Jury, Executioner," he smiles. "You are such a funny little thing," he cackles. "Such a funny little thing," he repeats with a giggle. "Your excuse, obvious really? 'For the Greater Good' bullshit always works. You feel a monster? My dear, you aren't one."
The Goldfish laughs. "You're barely a whelp. A tiny babe sucking his mother's teat for more. You think what you did is evil? That's not evil. That's...barely the tip of the iceberg. True evil knows no shame. It knows no guilt. You feel guilty, oh. Look at you...yes, yes you're trying to use your powers, but do they work? No. We're dreaming child, dreaming..."
The Goldfish chuckles.
"What have you done, I wonder? Are you more or less evil than Cheerie? Are you more or less evil than before? No...you are barely scratching evil. You aren't 'evil'...you're just egoistic. 'Mine' is your soul's scream. 'All is mine' is what you yell. Isn't that right? Cerulean is your daughter. Kill thousands to save her then! Who cares!? The enemy must be defeated, my way is right! Let the innocent suffer then! You knew mutations are painful, you knew! You cannot claim ignorance! You cannot, not after Bernard's words! Not after all you saw. You knew the risks and you proceeded anyway! But you aren't evil, oh no, make no mistake," the goldfish lazily swims. "You're...misguided, maybe. You're just...a children, who understands 'mine' and 'want', but cannot grasp the rest."
He smiles. The Goldfish smiles. "Pity that our time must come to a short end, right? Pity...pitiful...but you see," the Goldfish continues, "You can always call me back." He starts to leave.
"I am real, not a product of your frail nerves giving away to shock and fear. And if you wish my aid in the path of true evil...then call me, for I will certainly come..."
One last smile as he swims through the white walls. "For I am Ozymandias, Overlord of Overlords...and all that you use, was mine to begin with."

You wake up with a thin sheet of sweat over your body, but the goldfish is no longer there.

You are now in Upkeep

The 'children' are all trying out their new powers or strengths. Cerulean is in a corner, looking over them like a vulture waiting for a carcass.
You don't know why that particular allegory strikes you as odd.
But you suppose that if there were a 'Gestapo' of your own troops, Cerulean would be the leader.
Isn't she, after all, fanatically loyal to a fault?

Ragnarok appears mollified, at least a bit. He is reading a book entitled 'The Ultimate Dark Advisor' and appears concentrated in his studies.

Psysquid looks loads better. He yawns, before telepathically grabbing something from the fridge only for the Yellow King Spawn to imitate him to a fault.
Even Ragnarok takes after his 'father' and all three, looking like a sort of happy Squid family, start munching on dried squid tentacles.
Cannibals, the lot of them.
Gamington is happily humming away as he prepares more truckloads of food.
"Your evilness!" he exclaims happily, "I think we might need more supplies...somehow. Not that we risk starving or anything, but well...I'd suggest Hydroponic farms!"

It is a nice day, with a bright shining sun... You are in Upkeep...
So...Fluff.
With who?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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“Well,” he said. “We’re in the Forgotten hunting grounds I take it. Your screams just woke them up early. Congratulations, Lyara.”
“Do something!” she whispered, trying to keep her sight on all of them at once.
Basileus clapped his hands once. The Forgotten took a step forward, attracted by the sound.
“There, I did something. I clapped. I like clapping,” he said. -The Investigator And The Case Of The Missing Brain.

The Froggy Ninja

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2142 on: November 22, 2013, 09:53:40 am »

Cerulean because WTF

gman8181

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2143 on: November 22, 2013, 09:56:49 am »

*Claps slowly*

Well played Sir.

Anyway, I understand Tomcost's arguments towards our character having fluctuating morals. What we're doing doesn't really seem to line up with the Overlord's past proclaimed personality... Unless the Overlord is lying to himself out of fear for what he really is. Or maybe he's going crazy and as a result his actions are sort of in flux. At any rate, I guess this is just one of those things that arises from having multiple players all with different ideals making suggestions. I myself have been frustrated in different games in the past because people adhering so strictly to morals that it results in the main character's death. In this case that's not really an issue though and my pragmatic side is a little more lenient, so I'm thinking even if the Overlord's personality was changing. It would be a slow subtle thing and he would still have a bit of the past lingering feelings.

So yeah, a little bit of guilt is okay. We need to keep progressing forward but the Overlord would probably want to at least make the procedure less painful in the future. In regards to our new Dark Adviser; killing him might be an intelligent choice considering our current abundance of advisers and the fact that he doesn't seem very loyal. On the other hand, he may turn out to be very useful and we don't know his capabilities yet. Also I'm not sure if it would really mesh with the Overlord's personality to just off him right away without giving him a chance.

Fluff with... well whoever.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Evil Overlord - A suggestion Game
« Reply #2144 on: November 22, 2013, 10:04:22 am »

So, things we need to construct at some point or another.
Spoiler: It's a long list (click to show/hide)

Truly, I think we first need to upgrade our construction capabilities.

On a side note, let's see the fluff list

Spoiler: Characters (click to show/hide)

I think that's all of them.
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