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[Knit tie]

Become non-HEROES Hero.

"I can be a Hero. But what she's saying about Heroes being as big a monster as any Villain... It's true, Knighthowl. It's all true. If you're only looking at it from your side, you're blinded by the bigger picture. So I can't join HEROES.
"But I can't change a thing about this world if I'm a Villain. Villainy is a path of despair, and bring pain to others. I've already managed to order the slaughter of at least a thousand, and I've always known that sort of thing is not Evil, it's Cruel. So I can't join you either, Chemista.
"So here is what I am going to do. I am going to leave, and I am going to make this city a better place. And Heaven help anyone who gets in my way."

We can change the world if we are a villain. In fact, being a villain is our only way of changing it. In fact, we will be a villain simply because we are trying to change a world. What I say is that we need be on a quest not for evil, but for toppling the system.

[Eotyrannus]

If we're doing what we know is truly Good, then Knighthowl can't really get a result better than that, can he? And, even if Chemista tries to attack us for becoming True Good, we can explain to her that showing HEROES the truth will revert it from a War into a Battle, in which Evil isn't tortured, or fearing for its life. And if they still try to stop us, the golem ensues.

Ninja'd: We can't change it without public support of some sort. If we're not Good, then they'll portray us as Cruel Evil.

[LordBucket]

What I propose is that we side with Chemista (after some more exposition) and continue fighting heroes, but not because
killing heroes is the right thing. Instead, we will destroy the system of Heroes vs. Villains itself, we will change the world.

But isn't the entire moral of the story here that that sort of thinking doesn't work? The heroes are fighting to eliminate the villains to keep things safe and nice. In so doing, they have become the evil they seek to eliminate, but they are too blind to see it.

Now, your solution is to kill them?

Do you see the irony?

We can change the world if we are a villain. In fact, being a villain is our only way of changing it. In fact, we will be
a villain simply because we are trying to change a world. What I say is that we need be on a quest not for evil, but for toppling the system.

No, because then you simply become the establishment. The establishment that enforces its notion of justice by murdering and slaughtering everyone who stands in the way. Kind of like, you know...the heroes that you're trying to replace.

[javierpwn]

Side with Chemista. We shall continue our Overlording quest until they find a new The Hero!

[Talvara]

There is no good, no evil and no justice. Things simply are, If they hurt what is dear to us we'll respond with no mercy and boundless cruelty. if the situation allows it we maintain our standards.

Have Chemista side with us, (we're the overlord afterall, and shes our dark advisor)

[sebcool]

I say we try and fight the heroes in their own game, using a giant propaganda machine to turn the people against the heroes.

After all, the difference between the heroes here and villians are about the same as the difference between freedom fighters and terrorists. Heroes are, after all, just villians with some good publicity.

[10ebbor10]

Point is, you got 2 groups fighting against each other. The normal peoples, represented by the heroes, and the Monsters, represented by us. Only the elimination of one will prevent problems.

Now, we do have mutagen, do we? Just need to find some decent way of distributing it.

[Eotyrannus]

Why should we let either of them win? We've been told we can take Knighthowl of all people. If we want to protect what's dear to us, we need to get into a situation where the most powerful people in the city don't want to kill us. And if we get captured while being an Evil Overlord, we go back to being the Heroic Hero that we know is wrong.

Choose a third option, guys! Become a True Hero!

[sebcool]

Point is, you got 2 groups fighting against each other. The normal peoples, represented by the heroes, and the Monsters, represented by us. Only the elimination of one will prevent problems.

Now, we do have mutagen, do we? Just need to find some decent way of distributing it.

What?! No! Mutating the population is not the way, we must topple their regime!

[10ebbor10]

Which won't work. It'll just lead to another regime, only this time the monsters will be in charge.

[Talvara]

Turning the entire world into monsters sounds like a nice longterm goal . but currently we have more life and death things on our plate.

[sebcool]

Why should we let either of them win? We've been told we can take Knighthowl of all people. If we want to protect what's dear to us, we need to get into a situation where the most powerful people in the city don't want to kill us. And if we get captured while being an Evil Overlord, we go back to being the Heroic Hero that we know is wrong.

Choose a third option, guys! Become a True Hero!

Have you listened? It doesn't matter if we become a true hero, they will still paint us as villians. We can't change that, the only thing we can do is defeat them.

[Eotyrannus]

Becoming True Hero will work! If we're independent, and planning to fight the wrongs instead of fight against X, then we won't NEED to make another regime!

Also, we can just sit at our little Cottage of Justice and be awesome. 'TIS A NOBLE GOAL!

[Knit tie]

LordBucket, Eotyrannus, I find it very hard to argue with you two as the points you bring up are perfectly valid, but refusing to fight will not change anything. We need to fight.

But I do not say we need to murder our opposition. We must simply show them the truth. Run propaganda campaigns. "Corrupt" heroes. Do not let our minions hate their enemies.

The murders we have committed before were a result of our heroic thought processes, but now we can change. We can realise that even the life of our daughter isn't worth a thousand dead people. We can learn how to make difficult choices and accept the chains of commanding. We learn to follow our own goddamn standards!

Sailing off into the sunset is a very, very tempting choice, to simply not fight in such a violence-ridden world. But I say that we should kepp our overlord mask and become a better person.

EDIT:Yes, become a True Hero, but keep the position of the Overlord, because we will need it to at least survive. But change internally. Really do start fighting other criminals, and poverty, and famine, and whatnot.




You know, not that I look at the shitfest that is this world, I realise that what we have is the classic story about one group going against the other, and then the hurt group retaliating and then the revenge spiral giving birth to hatred and those who fight monsters becoming monsters themselves and so on. To stop the hatred, we need to be above it, not subjected to it.

In short, my position is that we should have a revelation and become a better person as an overlord. One that does not slaughter innocents to save one person no matter how dear that person is to him.

As LordBucket said, violence will not change anything, but apathy will not change anything either. We need to become the first person with considerable power in this world that does not hate his opposition.

[Eotyrannus]

I'm not planning to sail off into the sunset. We just need a new base of operations, and if we see something going on (mass stealing from Chemista, capture and torture from HEROES), we step out and fight it, non-lethally as much as we can. The only difference between your plan and mine is that we stand up to Chemista when she oversteps her standards. Continuing to be Evil will just result in our dysfunctional family getting hurt again.