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Author Topic: Too many @#$@ dorfs  (Read 1630 times)

ImagoDeo

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Too many @#$@ dorfs
« on: August 25, 2013, 04:52:12 pm »

Waaugh! I get my first wave - five. Ok. Second wave, nine. Ok. Twenty-one is a nice, reasonable--

Third wave. FORTY TWO. WHAT THE F#*&$*&#@%*&#%ING...

I don't have enough beds for all of you. I don't have enough food. I don't have enough booze. I don't have enough seats in my incomplete dining hall. I've just barely begun drinking accomodations by tunneling to the river. I can't deal with this many dorfs at once! STAHP!

What can I do to deal with all these silly idiots? What should I do with them? Murder isn't an option because A) I'm not set up for it and B) It's not ideal. Dorfs are resources and I want to keep them if I can. But how do I provide for them all?!
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Fluoman

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 05:06:14 pm »

Keep a clear head: if they are not doing anything it's not a problem.
Build a dormitory. No need to remove it later, since dwarves will automatically inhabit their own rooms and abandon the dormitory. It will serve as a buffer in case of large immigration waves. One bed per perso is too much, but 1 bed for 5 dwarves is okay.
By the third wave, your alcohol & food industry should be able to handle such disruptions. If they can't, you should expand a little your farms. If some of the newly built farms are useless (food overflow), you can just set it to be in fallow for the whole year until the need arises again.
To handle the excess brewing and cooking jobs, set one or two of the migrants to be designated cooks & brewers. 4 brewers/cooks for 80 should suffice.

Don't designate new rooms now. Wait until the dust has settled and your cistern is built.
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Mushroo

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2013, 05:06:27 pm »

Set your population cap in d_init :)

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Population_cap

If you are using the default setting of 200 then you damn well better have food and drink for at least 200 dwarfs, right??
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 05:08:05 pm by Mushroo »
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ImagoDeo

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2013, 05:26:48 pm »

Keep a clear head: if they are not doing anything it's not a problem.
Build a dormitory. No need to remove it later, since dwarves will automatically inhabit their own rooms and abandon the dormitory. It will serve as a buffer in case of large immigration waves. One bed per perso is too much, but 1 bed for 5 dwarves is okay.
By the third wave, your alcohol & food industry should be able to handle such disruptions. If they can't, you should expand a little your farms. If some of the newly built farms are useless (food overflow), you can just set it to be in fallow for the whole year until the need arises again.
To handle the excess brewing and cooking jobs, set one or two of the migrants to be designated cooks & brewers. 4 brewers/cooks for 80 should suffice.

Don't designate new rooms now. Wait until the dust has settled and your cistern is built.

Hm. The dormitory option will probably work best. I hadn't thought of that...

Thanks. I just didn't want to start hitting a tantrum spiral because they eat each other out of house and home.

Edit: Oh, and the vampire that arrived in this wave is kind of a pressing problem, too. *sigh*
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Cobbler89

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2013, 05:30:35 pm »

Keep a clear head: if they are not doing anything it's not a problem.
Build a dormitory. No need to remove it later, since dwarves will automatically inhabit their own rooms and abandon the dormitory. It will serve as a buffer in case of large immigration waves. One bed per perso is too much, but 1 bed for 5 dwarves is okay.
By the third wave, your alcohol & food industry should be able to handle such disruptions. If they can't, you should expand a little your farms. If some of the newly built farms are useless (food overflow), you can just set it to be in fallow for the whole year until the need arises again.
To handle the excess brewing and cooking jobs, set one or two of the migrants to be designated cooks & brewers. 4 brewers/cooks for 80 should suffice.

Don't designate new rooms now. Wait until the dust has settled and your cistern is built.
This, plus:

Gather plants on the surface if you consider the surface safe; this can supplement or, under some circumstances, replace farms.

Trade for food and brewable plants with whoever sends you caravans. This can also supplement or even replace farms, often more easily than gathering plants will, provided you are producing something to trade with. Nearly everything in Dwarf Fortress can be worked upon to make it more valuable and therefore trade-worthy: bones can be turned into crafts just to trade for food, for instance. Whatever you seem to have an excess of, look on the wiki and see what you can make out of it.

Remember to make pots (they're smaller than barrels and hold more) so you have something to put food and drink in; you [EDIT:]can't[/EDIT] brew 100 urists of dwarven wine if you have only two more barrels to put it in. (What's more, you can make the pots out of rock if you've got unneeded stone lying around, and then if you wind up with a surplus of food and want to get stuff like caged (tame grizzly bears) from the elves you can actually trade them the food in the rock pots without them spazzing about deforestation.)

If anything isn't being produced fast enough, build a second workshop to make it on the double!

If you're low on mandwarfpower, enable your migrants' labors to get the job done. Favor dwarves with higher skill in the labor in question, but don't forget that if there aren't enough skilled dwarves, you can enable the labor on some dwarves who have no notable skills so far and train them up. Keep in mind this is about having enough dwarfpower to produce what must be produced, not about prevnting there from being idle dwarves; contrary to popular belief, idle dwarves won't hurt anything. (Granted, it'd be nice if they'd spend more of their time cleaning, since they have nothing better to do... but nobody really knows why cleaning is so neglected even if there are dwarves not doing "more important" jobs.)

Another note: you don't actually need dining rooms with tables and chairs for your dwarves to eat, it just improves morale. There are lots of ways to improve morale if you find supplying the fortress with enough tables and chairs to avoid crowding complaints just too much.

And finally, don't worry if you don't have everything you need to take care of the migrant wave immediately, so long as you're working toward it. Most dwarves can survive a month or two of overcrowding or low food; it's perpetual overcrowding and starvation they can't handle.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 10:01:37 pm by Cobbler89 »
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ImagoDeo

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2013, 06:37:42 pm »

What about the vampire?

I currently have him locked away in a room all by himself. Trapped him in there with a burrow restriction (first time I've manipulated dorfs that effectively). He became the mayor somehow and started issuing mandates. I want to use him as an eternal lever puller, but what do I do in case:

1. He gets out?
2. He kills someone?
3. I want to change what levers are in his room without letting him out?
4. He becomes discontent and goes insane? Or rather, how to prevent that?
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Triaxx2

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2013, 06:41:39 pm »

Magma kill switch.

And if you have 42 two new dwarves, you now have the work force to ensure that your miners do nothing but mine. The others can pick up after them.
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weenog

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2013, 07:02:41 pm »

What about the vampire?

I currently have him locked away in a room all by himself. Trapped him in there with a burrow restriction (first time I've manipulated dorfs that effectively). He became the mayor somehow and started issuing mandates.
Not a problem.  You can select a new mayor through the nobles screen, you don't have to abide by the election.  You can also ignore mandates and demands as long as you haven't implemented a justice system, all it will do is create unhappy thoughts for the noble in question.

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I want to use him as an eternal lever puller
I recommend against this.  Vampires suffer severe slowdown as they go without booze, you will never get levers pulled in a timely fashion.

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what do I do in case:

1. He gets out?
Don't allow that to happen.  Wall the room off completely.  Even if a building destroyer shows up, it can't do anything to a wall.

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2. He kills someone?
Make and build a coffin and enable the coffin for burial.  Nothing more needs to be done if you have no justice system.
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3. I want to change what levers are in his room without letting him out?
You really shouldn't have him be a lever-puller at all.  If you've already put some levers in, forget they exist and build new ones elsewhere.
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4. He becomes discontent and goes insane? Or rather, how to prevent that?
  I keep my permanently walled-in vampires sane in the short term by giving them breathtakingly nice furniture (heavily decorated precious metal statues, etc) in their own rooms that they have reason to go to (a statue garden for idling, an office for something like updating stockpile records if she's the bookkeeper).  For the long term, you'll need to provide them with clothing that can't rot off, or fresh clothing for when their old ones wear out.  A drop chute in the ceiling should allow you to provide new clothing without having any of the other dwarfs come into contact with the vampire.  Alternatively you could put the vampire into its own military squad of 1, and assign it a uniform (to be worn even while inactive) of metal armor that covers all the essentials (upper body, crotch*, feet).  With this alternate method you should never need worry about decomposition.

*: Greaves make nice leg armor but they don't do anything for junk exposure.  Use leggings instead.
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Cobbler89

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2013, 08:57:14 pm »

If he's not going to use the vampire, it makes more sense to kill it with any method or even to wall it in an empty room and forget it than to worry about keeping it sane while it's imprisoned; keeping it sane is only a factor if he does want it to be a lever-puller or something in that line. Also note that you can dump in dwarven wine (or whatever swill the elves hippies bring if you're feeling cruel) if you're going to dump in clothing or anything through a dropchute, so alcohol deprivation doesn't have to be a factor if the player is willing to manually supply the vampire.

@ImagoDeo: Note that it is just as conceivable to make your vampire a solitary craftsdwarf or worker of some sort, who has raw materials dumped into his room with the drink and fresh clothes, works them into something worth having (or trading) at a workshop in his room, then himself dumps the products down another dropchute back to the rest of the fortress. You could get a real starving artist thing going, although it'd be completely manual. May be worth it if he has any good skills already.

Otherwise, if you're not up to manually supplying him via dropchutes, it's not like you have to make every dwarf useful... I mean look at your average Noble.
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ImagoDeo

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2013, 09:50:11 pm »

Also note that you can dump in dwarven wine (or whatever swill the elves hippies bring if you're feeling cruel) if you're going to dump in clothing or anything through a dropchute, so alcohol deprivation doesn't have to be a factor if the player is willing to manually supply the vampire.

No matter what I use him for, I want him to stay useful. Death is just a waste in my opinion.

How exactly does one manually drop items down a chute to him? I have the proper setup for it, I think, with an open space down into his room that he cannot escape from and into which my dwarves may place items. I'm just not sure how the actual process works.

@weenog I'm not gonna get rid of him and manually supplying him with booze is worth it for the fast leverpulling. (Or whatever else I choose to do with him once I have him locked down.)

Walling him in shouldn't be necessary either. If there's a building destroyer anywhere near that door, chances are it's gonna be game over anyway. There are fifteen thousand things that would be along the path to get there, and if they're all gone it means my fortress is, too.
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weenog

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2013, 10:17:18 pm »

Also note that you can dump in dwarven wine (or whatever swill the elves hippies bring if you're feeling cruel) if you're going to dump in clothing or anything through a dropchute, so alcohol deprivation doesn't have to be a factor if the player is willing to manually supply the vampire.
@weenog I'm not gonna get rid of him and manually supplying him with booze is worth it for the fast leverpulling.

No.  You cannot stave off alcohol deprivation.  Vampires don't drink, even with abundant alcohol available.  Players have even tried modding dwarf blood to be booze, and it still doesn't help the vampire.  Your vampire is going to slow to a pitiful crawl from alcohol deprivation if it doesn't die first.

Wall it in completely and keep it happy enough not to go insane.  The only thing that can reach it is ghosts, and most of them aren't dangerous.  If your fortress is killed to the last dwarf, except the vampire, then technically that fortress is still alive and active.  You can wait out catastrophes and, eventually, recover.  Merchant caravans will come, along with guards that might kill whatever killed your fortress.  Migrants will come to clean up and rebuild.  As long as you have one fortress member still functional, you can recover.  You might not even need to keep the walled-in vampire sane for a quasi-immortal fortress.  I'm just not sure an insane (possibly berserk) dwarf is still considered a member of the fortress.

What's more useful than the lynchpin of an immortal fortress?
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ImagoDeo

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2013, 10:51:20 pm »

Also note that you can dump in dwarven wine (or whatever swill the elves hippies bring if you're feeling cruel) if you're going to dump in clothing or anything through a dropchute, so alcohol deprivation doesn't have to be a factor if the player is willing to manually supply the vampire.
@weenog I'm not gonna get rid of him and manually supplying him with booze is worth it for the fast leverpulling.

No.  You cannot stave off alcohol deprivation.  Vampires don't drink, even with abundant alcohol available.  Players have even tried modding dwarf blood to be booze, and it still doesn't help the vampire.  Your vampire is going to slow to a pitiful crawl from alcohol deprivation if it doesn't die first.

Wall it in completely and keep it happy enough not to go insane.  The only thing that can reach it is ghosts, and most of them aren't dangerous.  If your fortress is killed to the last dwarf, except the vampire, then technically that fortress is still alive and active.  You can wait out catastrophes and, eventually, recover.  Merchant caravans will come, along with guards that might kill whatever killed your fortress.  Migrants will come to clean up and rebuild.  As long as you have one fortress member still functional, you can recover.  You might not even need to keep the walled-in vampire sane for a quasi-immortal fortress.  I'm just not sure an insane (possibly berserk) dwarf is still considered a member of the fortress.

What's more useful than the lynchpin of an immortal fortress?

Ah. Dang. I had hoped...

Oh well. I'll make him an eternal craftsdwarf, continually dropping his completed items down a hole to a collection point.
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laularukyrumo

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2013, 12:02:19 am »

If you do that, one thing you should do is stockpile 10-20 stones and a mason's workshop down there with him, craft a bunch of blank slabs, and leave them forbidden. In the event that your fortress does explode, have the vampire wait, and watch carefully. You WILL start getting ghosts, and while most of them will not bother the vampire, ghosts that are labeled as "sadistic" or especially "murderous" can and will go for his throat. As soon as you get the message "Urist McDead has risen and is haunting the fortress!", pause and go to the units list, find him, and check his status. It lists the type of ghost he is, almost always listed as "A forlorn haunt" or "A restless haunt". If you get something that sounds dangerous, remember his name, have the vampire take a slab to be engraved and installed. They won't block pathing access, and he'll be able to step over it, but you'll need an empty tile to build it. However, it will instantly exorcise the ghost, keeping your fort alive.
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Di

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2013, 01:17:45 pm »

So, you have too many dwarfs and a vampire whom you can reliably manipulate.
You clearly haven't played much if you don't see a solution ;)
Also, Toady has claimed that vamps restore their speed after sating their bloodthirst.  Some players myself included disagree with that but I don't remember any solid evidence posted on mantis.
So since you'd like to keep him from slowing down why don't you check this out?
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fricy

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Re: Too many @#$@ dorfs to feed to the vampire? What?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2013, 01:58:21 pm »

Lol @ DI, just wanted to ask the same thing,
@ImagoDeo: In one post you are worried that you have too many mouths to feed, then Armok blesses you with a handy solution to take care of the problem for you and YOU just wall him in?
You have much to learn young padawan. :D
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