Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Culise]

I don't even understand why webadict seems so confused. In the first round, before seeing anything at all, he instantly goes "woha, wtf" but never specified what the problem even is. Dave announced his team beforehand, whats there to be suprised about?


Then he goes wtf when vaporeon dies to daves jolteon. I mean, how is that a suprise. Jolteon is much faster, and hit a half-dead vaporeon with a super-effective attack. That's how pokemon works, rock-paper-scissors.


And then, well, everyone after that apart from Espeon and Umbreon was hit by super-effective attacks, and Darmanitan hits hard enough to explain pretty much why they ended like this. Considering he used Jolteon himself, he shouldn't have been suprised about the volt-absorb ability either.


How is this retarded? He's just a sore loser, Dave's team was not overpowered, it simply had better coverage and speed.



edit: we are not using item clause, is that even in OU?

Apparently not; it's not even listed anymore in Smogon's rules.  Well, that's amusing; I pointlessly restricted myself for nothing. 

At any rate, regarding this present matter, he is an old player who I suspect hasn't played since Gen1, given his unfamiliarity with mechanics such as items.  If so, his WTFs were likely surprise at matters such as Volt Switch's secondary effect, which a player who is unfamiliar with items would not have seen before (U-Turn being Gen4; Baton Pass being Gen2 and doing no damage).  I don't think he's just being a sore loser; he was expressing his confusion and dismay with many of the changes even before the match started, when it was far from certain that he would lose, and he had only literally learned at the last second of items being necessary.  It is completely unnecessary to call him names or be insulting to him in this affair; if he wants to drop, he may certainly do so, and at least he had the courtesy to say outright instead of simply disappearing.  Call it a "forfeit," if it throws off the tourney standings; there's no need to call him a kid and sore loser, even if he was somewhat insulting in his choice of words. 

Though, Webadict, I agree with Rolepgeek that Pokemon can still be quite fun, though it is certainly more complex.  His advice is quite good, if you want to try to continue.  Pokemon Showdown, as I'm sure you noticed, also does recommendations on moves and EVs/Nature, which can be quite effective as they are based on Smogon standard sets.  Items can be a bit more complex, but a short list of good items that I found may be helpful:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Recovery/Survival:

• Leftovers: Recovers HP at the end of each turn.
• Black Sludge: If Poison Type, same as Leftovers
• Lum Berry: Nullifies first permanent status effect you take (Paralyze, Freeze, Poison, Burn, Sleep)
• Focus Sash: The first time your Pokemon holding this goes from full HP to KO in one hit, you survive with 1 HP.  Use on glass cannons.
• Air Balloon: Nullifies ground attacks against you; pops if you get hit by any other attack.  Fun for stuff with Ground weaknesses

Puncheminnaface:

• Life Orb: Boosts all attacks, drains your life after every attack
• Choice Band/Specs/Scarf: Greatly boosts your Attack, Special Attack, or Speed, but locks you into one move
• White Herb: Recovers stat drops.  Use with powerful attacks that drop your stats

The complexity of all of the permutations available breeds possibilities in gameplay, and it can be a lot of fun to try out new things.  I've never used most of the Pokemon in my team (Terrakion, Cresselia, Dragonite, Meloetta), for instance, but I'm finding it interesting to learn about what they can do as well.  I know it can be difficult to get into, especially if you haven't played in a long time, but would you like to give it a second go?  We can also certainly help you here as well. 

[webadict]

Akroma, you're being rude.

Webadict, you have to keep trying, if you want to figure everything out. I'd suggest using the strategy pokedex on Smogon to help yourself, as well as looking at the replays from the last thread and the ones in this one, to get a feel for the game. If you still find it confusing, that's fine. But at least give it one more go?

what?


how?


sore loser much? how is this game retarded just because you lost a battle?


come on webadict, there is still hope. Don't just call the game stupid just because your first try didn't work out, I mean, are you 12?


also, updated brakets

Well, I am certainly 12, but that's beside the point. I think you seem to be unaware of the "gap" here. It's alright, you're in the know, so it's understandable why you don't quite get it.

Let's see how to put it in an easy to understand fashion as to why this isn't fun...

Those of you who haven't touched pokemon in a long while will see the team creation and notice that pokemon has become a lot more complicated than it used to be.

Yeah, let's start with that.

But, I suppose this sort of thing looks easy to you, and I'm sure it is. But, having not used such an odd program, it's off-putting to say the least. Don't worry though, I had to find about all of the relevant information about an hour before playing from people inside of this room, so any useful information (WTF is this Smogon nonsense?) that should've been given away right away was essentially wasted. Plus, not knowing how to use the program until the game started certainly didn't help.

I mean, far be it for me to tell you what new people don't know, but we don't know anything about anything.

I'm sure you'll still believe that I'm ragequitting, but I don't care that I lost. Had I known earlier that the game was this ridiculously complex, I would've surely quit sooner.

I don't even understand why webadict seems so confused. In the first round, before seeing anything at all, he instantly goes "woha, wtf" but never specified what the problem even is. Dave announced his team beforehand, whats there to be suprised about?

Then he goes wtf when vaporeon dies to daves jolteon. I mean, how is that a suprise. Jolteon is much faster, and hit a half-dead vaporeon with a super-effective attack. That's how pokemon works, rock-paper-scissors.

And then, well, everyone after that apart from Espeon and Umbreon was hit by super-effective attacks, and Darmanitan hits hard enough to explain pretty much why they ended like this. Considering he used Jolteon himself, he shouldn't have been suprised about the volt-absorb ability either.

How is this retarded? He's just a sore loser, Dave's team was not overpowered, it simply had better coverage and speed.

Ah, I see where you're confused. I had never USED this program before, seeing as how I assumed that it would be similar, if not the same as playing the game. But, the switching mechanic is odd, as well as the whole set-up.

I understand why you're confused, though, but please see things from the perspective of someone who doesn't/hasn't/will never again use this program. I'm basically playing a game that I have a limited understanding of with no incentive to learn more about it against people that clearly have superior knowledge and tactical understanding. While you're right, this Darmanitan? apparently hits pretty hard, I suppose I could've guessed this out of an imaginary hat and come up with a viable counterstrategy to it.

So, chalk this one up to whatever you feel like, but I don't wish to play anymore. It's just not that fun to be overwhelmed by the amount of knowledge I need to know.

Oh, and I accidentally used Thunderbolt at the end. I wasn't surprised by that. I just hit the wrong button. There isn't a way to undo that sort of thing. Or is there? I don't really know.

[Heron TSG]

Remember to stay chill, friends.

Been a bit busy helping my roommates get moved in, so I probably won't have a team until this evening.

Ninja Edit For Webadict: Sorry to see you go, but if it's not fun it's not fun. Oh, and you can totally cancel your move by hitting the 'cancel' button where the moves used to show up, but it won't let you do it unless the opponent hasn't picked a move yet. The turn happens as soon as both players have decided what they're doing.

[DaveTheGrave]

Also my first time using it, besides 2 practice matches I had.

[Akroma]

well, fine. Game isn't what you expected, so you quit, I am fine with that. No reason to call the game retarded though. In fact, it did improve on things a lot


Though I still wonder about the first WTF, right when the game started.






Anyway, spot is open for a while, until everyone else has progressed I guess. Anyone up for pickings?

[webadict]

well, fine. Game isn't what you expected, so you quit, I am fine with that. No reason to call the game retarded though. In fact, it did improve on things a lot


Though I still wonder about the first WTF, right when the game started.


Anyway, spot is open for a while, until everyone else has progressed I guess. Anyone up for pickings?

When the game starts, you're apparently allowed to choose your starting Pokemon. I had not assumed this and was surprised by this. Again, this is NOT something that is assumed, oddly enough, nor is seeing the entire team lined up like that at the beginning.

However, the game is retarded if it requires encyclopedic knowledge or hours to comprehend simply the starting parts. And again, with no incentive to play, there's no point in devoting the time or energy necessary to try to learn it. It's be like trying to play Magic without having a friend that plays it. Or Dungeons and Dragons. Or a lot of games, really.

Plus, you seem like a mean person, and I don't really want to hang out with you. I remember being mean, and it's not that fun.

[Rolepgeek]

I only started playing at Gen 3 for the normal game, so I have to ask; was switching not allowed in Gen 1?

Also, playing this game has actually improved my game in the actual game quite a bit, since I am now used to switching to more effective Pokemon.

Although, move sets are significantly harder to choose/keep. And PP matters a lot more.

Dosn't require encyclopedic knowledge, just a short amount of research based on the stuff you want to be using in specific.

I find I'm a lot better at Random Battles than I am at other ones, since I don't have to do crayons of research; just look at what each move does, put a devious plan together, and go. Cosmic Power Sigilyph with Stored Power, a flame orb, Psycho Switch(or whatever it's called) and Roost is fun.

[IamanElfCollaborator]

Started at Gen 2. Don't do competitive battles normally.

[Akroma]

Well, usualy when I don't know what I am dealing with, I do a quick googling when I see something new. At least to know wether what I have in front of me is defencive or offensive, and maybe if it has any abilities that could bite me in the ass if I am caught unaware (damn you, sap sipper!)


though most of the time, I just check if the enemies speed is potentialy faster than mine. I hate it when I have a fragile sweeper doing it's thing, and bam, suddenly what I thought would be a sure kill does me in because the enemy was simply faster. That's why I *loathe* choice-scarf users, they almost always catch me off-guard and rain on my parade. Best example, my battle against Barbarossa last tourney. Maaaaan those damn scarfs totaly did me in


edit: if you don't like people being mean to you, don't call their hobbies retarded. That's condescending. You lost square and fair, and now you are complaining that the game is stupid, and that the players are wasting retarded amounts of time on it. Consdering we are on a forum based on THE single most complicated game, that has the userfriendliness of trying to learn kung-fu while looking somewhat like the matrix, and requires copious amounts of time spend reading the wiki on how to even set-up a basic farmplot, let alone get a fort past the first siege, it's a moot point anyway. That's pretty mean of you, and I have my doubts you would have had the same reaction if you had happened to battle against someone with even less knowledge utterly defeating him.

edit edit: and with this, no more word on it, arguement is over. Please leave the thread, as you are by your own choice no longer a part of it, everyone else, the current topic is how newer gens have improved on the old gens, and how you think the changes in gen6 will play out.


I for one, think the mega-evolutions kinda silly. the design is just...meh. Apart from mega-ampharos. That thing is awesome. Totaly going on my team.

[scapheap]

Here a tip for all: mouse over the enemy mon and you get their typing and their possible abilities.

[webadict]

I only started playing at Gen 3 for the normal game, so I have to ask; was switching not allowed in Gen 1?

Also, playing this game has actually improved my game in the actual game quite a bit, since I am now used to switching to more effective Pokemon.

Although, move sets are significantly harder to choose/keep. And PP matters a lot more.

Dosn't require encyclopedic knowledge, just a short amount of research based on the stuff you want to be using in specific.

I find I'm a lot better at Random Battles than I am at other ones, since I don't have to do crayons of research; just look at what each move does, put a devious plan together, and go. Cosmic Power Sigilyph with Stored Power, a flame orb, Psycho Switch(or whatever it's called) and Roost is fun.

No no no, I mean the way this game switches is different in its presentation. Functionally, it remains the same, but that doesn't make it weird for someone who's never used it.

I've also played up to Gen 3, which I still consider to be less fun than Gen 2, but I never had to DEAL with items, since, you know, they don't really matter if you just play the game for fun. The most I ever dealt with with items is I had a Zigzagoon picking things up, and an Exp Share, items that don't typically have any effect on the battle.

And yes, you don't NEED to know everything, it helps to know it. Being surrounded by unfamiliar lists of moves, items, EV points (Easily the single worst thing that ruined the games, in my opinion), abilities, Pokemon, etc. when you can hardly remember what's strong against what type just isn't fun. I assumed this would be a lot easier for newbies to get into, but it's not, and that just doesn't make it appealing to play.

Well, usualy when I don't know what I am dealing with, I do a quick googling when I see something new. At least to know wether what I have in front of me is defencive or offensive, and maybe if it has any abilities that could bite me in the ass if I am caught unaware (damn you, sap sipper!)

though most of the time, I just check if the enemies speed is potentialy faster than mine. I hate it when I have a fragile sweeper doing it's thing, and bam, suddenly what I thought would be a sure kill does me in because the enemy was simply faster. That's why I *loathe* choice-scarf users, they almost always catch me off-guard and rain on my parade. Best example, my battle against Barbarossa last tourney. Maaaaan those damn scarfs totaly did me in

edit: if you don't like people being mean to you, don't call their hobbies retarded. That's condescending. You lost square and fair, and now you are complaining that the game is stupid, and that the players are wasting retarded amounts of time on it. That's pretty mean of you.

Again, I suppose that's an assumption you made incorrectly. Having to Google the entire game does not really make it MORE fun. Having the information readily available at least makes it tolerable, though. Also, using unfamiliar terms... Yeah, I think you're still forgetting that some people don't know these things... It'd be similar to me describing a game of League of Legends to you, which I can only assume you have never played.

Well, it has nothing to do with being defensive about the topic and more with your assumption of the problem and your method of dealing with it. Overall, I'd much rather play other games with other people. I think if you approach some of these issues and lessen the gap between newcomers and others as well as adopt a more favorable attitude, you'll probably find more people to play than before. As much as I hate to advertise, but in the Mafia Subforum, while we're elitist jerks in our more professional games, we have a nice means of inducting new members where we pair up new players with old players and help them learn the game.

As such, I'd take a bit more information in the opening post, and even someone to help in team formation and battle. Overall, I felt rushed, uninformed, and exceedingly overwhelmed at the sheer amount of information it felt I needed to know. But, if you don't want to, what do I know? I've only been here for so long. I mean, I am only 12 years old.

Here a tip for all: mouse over the enemy mon and you get their typing and their possible abilities.

Err... Problems occur when you have no idea what those abilities do... >.>

[Akroma]

you might wanna re-read my post, I did some edits to it.


also, my first game of league of legends was pretty fun. I of course died dozens of times and I my team kept calling my a feeder, but oh well. takes some practise, first tries always do


EVs btw already exited in gen1. Gamefreak just never made a point of explaining they did. They rise by fighting certain pokemon, it is however nearly impossible to tell the difference in-game, as it happens slowly and hiddenly. You do notice the difference if you use a glitch to get these level-up items and boost a pokemon to lvl 100 with them. These are way weaker than if you had trained it to 100. The teambuilder just allows you to set them, without having to battle 500+ pokemon first to spread them via in-game mechanics. It did not ruin the game. In fact, it allows pokemon to be played in many different ways, instead of being bound to one role by their stat-base.


as far as old and new players go, I did offer team-building help. I helped Rolepgeek building his mono-ghost team, and the two training battles Davethe Grave mentioned were against me, while we were waiting for you to join the chatroom. I helped him with his movepool and item choices, and would have done the same for you gladly had you asked.

As for you feeling rushed, you joined the thread on the day it was opened, and immediatly seemed to know what kinda team you wanted. Then the following 3 days, you didn't post a thing, no questions, no nothing. How was any of us supposed to know you needed help? We are not psychics, and you can not blame any of us for not helping you when you didn't ask. Note how Wirevix was immediatly offered help when he indicated he needed any. And if you read most of my posts, you will see that I have made effort to make this tourney easy on the beginners, even keeping the stronger ones from building too strong teams and pairing them off to avoid all the beginners being swept immediatly. Please do not be ignorant.

Now, please return to the mafia sub-forum, you may stay here to play, but not to complain. if you really need to blow off steam, send your arguements to me via PM

[scapheap]

Most are common sense(Levitate? Don't use ground moves. Oblivious? It either immune to stats change or love(it love).) and ones that are not are either clear on use(like Poison Point) or you can safely ignore in working out how to beat down the mon(like Prankster)

[Akroma]

I don't really think they are obvious. But I agree, many don't really matter if you don't know them. So the enemy has sheer force, well, good for him. Doesn't really change that much.

[Rolepgeek]

ANYWAY

To change the subject back to one that won't get the thread locked or make people upset, since if I'm brutally honest, neither of you are being understanding(webadict, I know what you're saying and felt that way at first too(still do,most of the time, I just always look up wikis before I play any game), but the way you're saying it makes it seem as though you're A. criticizing the game, which while not a bad thing in and of itself, it is 'Yucking Akroma's Yum', if you know what I mean, and B. are accusing us of not giving you the tools you need. Which in all fairness, we didn't, but being accused always makes people defensive and less willing to help. Akroma, you're essentially attacking him, saying he should know everything already, and expecting him to nderstand the basics of the game unfairly.), I think the mega evolutions are just dumb. Not just the looks but the idea behind them. Evolving mid-battle and gaining moves and such? It's just silly and ridiculous. I'd rather they just add some alternate form to some 'mons achieved with an item or special move or some such, similar to Meloetta or Darmanitan. Not make it just obviously stronger. It just seems weird to me, but I've never played gen V either, so maybe I'm just not familiar with it.

And a last bit of advice, webadict; play random battles for a while. Just do that. It'll act as a crash course, and there's no harm in losing. Unless you're really worried about competitive laser rankings, which is why there's also Unrated Random Battles. It'll work as a crash course, I found it more fun than other battles since it dumps you right in with decent moves and such, if not the most optimal, is well-balanced, and will teach you what stuff to love, fear, or hate. There are some things of course, that are different between RandBats and other meta games, but I can help you with that if you like. I'm only 15, after all. Complexity is just what I like in games, is all(though DF actually got boring because it wasn't complex enough, though that may be because I wasn't patient enough to make to my first siege.)