Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

GREAT, AWESOME, LETS DO THIS!!!

Sounds good to me.

I am indifferent.

Sounds like a bad idea (please tell me more why)

NO!!!! THIS WILL CONFUSE EVERYONE! NO THERAPIST SUPPORT, THE HORROR

[Meph]

I could use some secret skills for my custom reactions, like the Biologist or Thaumaturg or Inventor or Toolmaker.

The game has many unused, hidden skills. They would have no profession, like Tanner or Butcher, and therefore no custom graphics, but you could see the "Legendary Somthing" or "Dabbling Something" in the skills. They would also have no labor that you can toggle, like Mason or Detail-Stone, so people would have to use workshop profiles to allow and disallow dwarves from certain reactions.

Example: The merchant stalls currently use diplomacy/ambassador, because it was to closest skill I could find. But a already existing social skill, the Negotiator, fits way, way better. I changed it in my raws, and my dwarven negotiators now haggle with the merchant stalls. I cant set this labor, so its active in all dwarves, all the time (like pulling a lever, any nearby dwarf will do it), but I did restrict merchant stalls to only one designated dwarf.

SOCIAL SKILLS I CAN USE (OR EVEN RENAME):

Code: [Select]

PERSUASION Persuader Persuasion
NEGOTIATION Negotiator Negotiation
JUDGING_INTENT Judge of intent Judging Intent
APPRAISAL Appraiser Appraisal
ORGANIZATION Organizer Organization
RECORD_KEEPING Record keeper Record Keeping
LYING Liar Lying
INTIMIDATION Intimidator Intimidation
COMEDY Comedian Comedy
FLATTERY Flatterer Flattery
CONSOLE Consoler Consoling
PACIFY Pacifier Pacification
LEADERSHIP Leader Leadership
TEACHING Teacher Teaching
SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS Observer Observation
KNOWLEDGE_ACQUISITION Student Studying
Now most people know these.... but there is more. Completely unused skills, like MAGIC_NATURE, which is listed as "Druid" in a dwarf. I did change this to "Magic Weapon User", which is used for magic staves/wands and orcish magic weaponry. There is a whole list of these.

SURPRISE:

Code: [Select]

CONCENTRATION Concentration Concentration
DISCIPLINE Discipline Discipline
WRITING Wordsmith Writing
PROSE Writer Prose
POETRY Poet Poetry
READING Reader Reading
SPEAKING Speaker Speaking
CONVERSATION Conversationalist Conversation
COORDINATION Coordination Coordination
BALANCE Balance Balance
There is also knapping and tracking, which I believe is adv mode related, but could be used as well.

Code: [Select]

KNAPPING Knapper Knapping
TRACKING Tracker Tracking
I can make any reaction use any of these skills. And I can rename them like I want. Just look at it: There is a SPEAKING and a WRITING skill already, which I can use for the Speakers Podium and the Scriptorium.  But what to do with PROSE and POETRY, which are more or less the same... lets just rename them to Machinist and Artificer.

And my Poison&Wax Worker, Researcher&Inventor combos? I can split them.
Poison&Wax Worker  => Wax Worker
Researcher&Inventor => Researcher
Concentration => Inventor
Disciplin =>  Poisoner

I have 10 completely free skills that I can rename like I want, 2 adv-mode skills that I could use, and 16 social skills that I could partly rename.

PROS:
 - Less exploits and skill-farming.
 - Allows more and more skills.... Thaumaturg, Biologist, Apothecary, Mad-Warpstone Scientist...
 - Harder for dwarves to learn everything, because they need to level in more skills.
 - More atmosphere since you have writers and speakers, inventors and what-ever I want running around the fort.

CONS:
 - These skills cant be chosen at embark.
 - You cant toggle labor on/off, not even with the Therapist. Only way is using workshop profiles. (or having any dwarf do the reaction)
 - You wont get custom graphics for them. (legendary writer still looks like peasant)
 - You wont get professions for them. (If a dwarf is a legendary writer and a adequate tanner, he will be counted as tanner)

Feedback more then welcome.

More info to be found here, all skills or here, wordsmith example

[Lottanubs]

So basically you're adding in dwarf skills that cannot be toggled or viewed in Therapist, but are still used in some workshops? While I like the addition of more useful skills, the only thing keeping me from voting ABSOLUTELY is the inability to view, toggle, or otherwise micromanage these skills which would benefit greatly from being viewed, toggled, and micromanaged.

[Godlysockpuppet]

Nice How about you add gunsmith as a seperate skill? I cant see a sword making weapon smith making a rifle
Or how about a generic 'toolmaker' skill? Or 'machinist' for the guy making golems and clockwork mines/turrets?

[silentdeth]

Does workshop profile work on skills you cannot toggle? I know setting the min/max levels for military skills doesn't work.

I really don't like this idea. The UI is already bad enough, and you wish to make it worse by adding things we cannot control? And you are doing this just to so they can be named the way you want? No, absolutely not, that is nowhere near a good enough reason to make me put up with that kind of lack of control. It functions adequately as it is, your efforts are better spent on new stuff, or bug fixes, not breaking things that already work.

[Vabalokis]

it would be awesome only if there would be some way to make workshops automatically profile itselves

[ElenaRoan]

So basically you're adding in dwarf skills that cannot be toggled or viewed in Therapist, but are still used in some workshops? While I like the addition of more useful skills, the only thing keeping me from voting ABSOLUTELY is the inability to view, toggle, or otherwise micromanage these skills which would benefit greatly from being viewed, toggled, and micromanaged.

ditto

[masterdiscord]

I'm with Silentdeth, if the profiles won't work properly for the necessary skill especially.

Though, I'm not sure why Therapist couldn't at least show the skill levels of all those 'hidden' things, the same way it does the social skills. Is it just a matter of the devs having to do it?

[Meph]

Therapist will show the skills. But no labor exists that you can toggle.

Workshop Profiles will recognize the skills. And of course the dwarves you allow for the workshop.

The reason is not renaming/more names. The reason is that a weaponsmith makes guns and swords (and like godlysockpuppet said, that doesnt seem to be right). The reason is that a poisoner makes wax crafts. The reason is that a researcher (theoretical knowledge) is also an inventor (practical application). That the Ambassador works not only in the Embassy, but also the Expedition System and the Merchant Stalls.

There are enough skill for vanilla buildings. Yeah, thats 25. -.- Masterwork adds 100 on top of that, and cant add new skills. It would be great if most workshops had their own skill.

Remember, if you dont set any workshop profiles, any dwarf will do the reaction.

[dukea42]

Nah. I can't say I am a fan of the ideal in general either. Look at it this way... You mentioned that a leatherworker was not likely to know how to do tanning. But that's a industrial revolution result. Before that most people how to learn a broader skill- set to get products from beginning to end.

For the market, expedition, ambassador example you could call the skill stewardship. Noble houses had stewards running all those details.

I'd be ok when some of the ones like writing and speaking as they are fine if just any nearby dwarf does it. Or at least skill controls would less likely to be needed. Also ok is the magic weapon as you can control who gets those said weapons.

Ok I guess I'm leaning more towards a partial role-out of your idea.

[Meph]

I could only use it for reactions that produce non-quality items. For example poison, runes, books, speeches in the speakers podium, music in the tavern, warpstone lab mutations, pet-armoring, researching... things that have no quality modifier attached, nothing that produces "masterwork" or "exceptional" items.

[silentdeth]

Skill does control how fast the job is performed. Do the profile min/max level setting work on those skills? That makes a pretty big differance in the amount of micro management I have to do.

[Billy Jack]

I would also prefer that effort be put into bug fixes rather than this hubbub.

Gunsmithing should really be done by a Machinist/Mechanic, imo.

[Vinum]

Dwarven realism is good to me, but you might want to test it by release the next update with only a few of those skills selected and activated in the way you've talked about; the missing of Therapist's help and the raise of micromanagement could be very annoying, so starting from the most evident cases which require splitting of the professions could help seeing the concrete effects on everyone's nerves and on gameplay.

But, on the other hand, i think it would make players build dedicated rooms in the fortresses to specific dwarves for specific jobs, so it might lead to an incentive to build or carve much more beautiful looking dwarven realms, ultimately making the game funnier and more repeatible, in the sense where new fortresses would actually look different due to a lot of little changes related to a new location of the new, private workshops.

Exemple: i would define myself as a quite repetitive player, as i tend to create a few areas where i concentrate a lot of activities where everyone can get and start the job.
I am now "forced" (beetwen commas because i could not care of who makes what) to assign a workshop/office/bureaux to a single dwarf: it will be his/her place, a specialised area hold by a selected subject (or at least, until the dwarf starts taking breaks too ofetn or the outcome flow becomes unefficient), i am more willing to dedicate myself more into putting more efforts to make that place immediatley recogniseable, a distincted part of the fortress. I think i would enjoy doing that and later admire/play with that result.

In synthetis: i'm waiting to see this becoming true

[Meph]

Its funny how people say: I dont like these specialised skills, and on another thread I had to read: I dont like the engraver doing the runes now, please give him his own skill. What ever I do, its wrong. ^^

I usually have most labors enabled on all dwarves, with only woodcutter, miner, weapon- and armorsmith being an exception. I never have idles. But then again, most people that play DF would get OCD-Braindamage from something like that.

[dukea42]

That's why they same game development is so rough!  It's a great job your doing. It s just the fine details being discussed, don't take too much weight into it all. I am happy with every build you release.