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Author Topic: Fifty States, Equal Populations?  (Read 2988 times)

Flying Dice

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2013, 03:15:47 pm »

As I said before, there is almost never any appreciation of history or context when it comes to this.
That's not the issue here. You seem to have missed the crucial word in my post: ELECTABLE. Our two main parties are mid-right wing conservatives and right-leaning moderates, with a few left-wing candidates from certain areas included in the latter. From the American political perception we have a right and a left, but on a broader scale we do not. There's no such thing as a "labour party" or "socialist party" in the U.S., and even suggesting such a thing is practically anathema in many places. The "liberal" party barely passed a healthcare reform law that requires citizens to buy products from businesses and it was seen by both sides as progressive.

I'm not even tremendously far to the left on the political spectrum (which in and of itself isn't a terribly effective measure of ideology), but I can honestly say that the best I can hope for in elections is to vote for people who might occasionally do something that isn't completely abhorrent in my eyes. I'm not saying that the left (at least, liberals as far left as the main body of the GOP is right) doesn't exist, but that it is a minority within the moderate party.

Speaking of history...
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The greatest good we can do our country is to heal its party divisions and make them one people.
One guess who and when that came from.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2013, 03:28:06 pm »

\
Quote
The greatest good we can do our country is to heal its party divisions and make them one people.
One guess who and when that came from.

It turns out it was Thomas Jefferson, but I thought it was Hitler.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2013, 03:52:14 pm »

That's not the issue here. You seem to have missed the crucial word in my post: ELECTABLE.
They are electable, most notably in New England. The term New England Democrat did not appear out of thin air.
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Our two main parties are mid-right wing conservatives and right-leaning moderates, with a few left-wing candidates from certain areas included in the latter.

That isn't a good description at all. The Democrats and the Republicans are both big tent coalition-type parties. They pretty much have to be. If they were not, they could not maintain a two-party paradigm. Do you think Corporate Interests Republicans really, deeply care about the agenda of the Traditional Conservative Republicans? That the Libertarian Republicans are in good with the Tea Party Republicans? That what reformers they have wouldn't stick with it if they didn't feel they had to? If not for the establishment tying them all together, because they have minimal internal conflict and need unity under the first-past-the-post system, they could all be separate parties.

The same goes for the Democrats. You've got Minorities, Greens, Unions, Social Democrats, the Religious Left, Progressives, Traditional Liberals, Secularists, and after all the fuckups of the GOP a lot of the moderate potential. While there is significant overlap for both parties, this overlap only exists in the first place due to the factions with the least objections to one another trying to stick together for increased power.

A thing I was once surprised to learn is that in many other countries, there are entire parties for the interests of racial minorities. That seems absurd from my point of view, but my point of view is from a place where the law makes such alliance parties the most rational option out there.
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The "liberal" party barely passed a healthcare reform law that requires citizens to buy products from businesses and it was seen by both sides as progressive.
We'll see how long the state of affairs lasts. Healthcare reform has been a big battle for much longer than these past few years. Much more all-encompasing reform has been proposed but denied multiple times in the past. This has made the issue somewhat radioactive to politicians despite how badly it has been needed. The ACA, I think at least, is a form of "testing the water" on healthcare reform to see if the country will accept it overall.
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Quote
The greatest good we can do our country is to heal its party divisions and make them one people.
One guess who and when that came from.

It turns out it was Thomas Jefferson, but I thought it was Hitler.
I also guessed Hitler. It's an easy enough mistake to make. Statements calling for a unity of the people tend to be either very good or terrifyingly bad.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 03:54:15 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2013, 04:26:21 pm »

Any country with a Parliamentary system have the same issue the US does, where you don't vote for a part as much as a coalition, they just manage to hide the fact better and make people think its totally different.

Regardless, I think this is stupid. I think the US government structure as is is okay but not great, but I don't see how this in any way improves anything.
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Eagle_eye

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2013, 07:40:32 pm »


The same goes for the Democrats. You've got Minorities, Greens, Unions, Social Democrats, the Religious Left, Progressives, Traditional Liberals, Secularists, and after all the fuckups of the GOP a lot of the moderate potential. While there is significant overlap for both parties, this overlap only exists in the first place due to the factions with the least objections to one another trying to stick together for increased power.


The thing is, none of those are far left in the same sense that the extreme fringes of the Republican party are far right. A party campaigning on the abolition of capitalism would never draw nearly much support in the US as socialist and even communist parties do in Europe.
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Aqizzar

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2013, 07:56:07 pm »

I'm genuinely surprised to learn that Madison, Greenbay, and Grand Rapids and their environs can match the population of the DFW metroplex.

And I some of whatever they were smoking when they came up with these names.
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Steelmagic

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2013, 10:57:23 pm »

Firelands sounds like either hell on earth or a badass place.
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Mech#4

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2013, 11:23:42 pm »

Firelands sounds like either hell on earth or a badass place.

Sounds like a zone. "Go to the Firelands and get me 20 flaming bear asses."
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pisskop

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2013, 11:29:04 pm »

A Sonic zone.  Green Hills, Ocean, Firelands.
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Gentlefish

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2013, 11:42:54 pm »

So I'm just popping my head in to say that right wing and left wing are NOT subjective terms.

Right wing supports a social heirarchy and social inequality while the left wing supports social equality. The terms came from France during the French Revolution, having to do with where politicians sat.

So, totally the opposite of subjective.

scriver

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2013, 05:58:15 am »

We've had that discussion before. Right-left-x-wing can be both objective terms when viewed on the whole or bigger picture, as well as subjective terms in relation to to a country's or area's demographics and how people place on a right-to-left scale.
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Karlito

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Re: Fifty States, Equal Populations?
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2013, 09:13:56 am »

I'm genuinely surprised to learn that Madison, Greenbay, and Grand Rapids and their environs can match the population of the DFW metroplex.
I think Milwaukee must be in there too, though it's kind of hard to tell.

Anyway, as a resident of Shiprock, I've gotta say, I don't think it's a great idea to have a state that's 1000 miles long.
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