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[Sutremaine]

You could run a fort on mead and imported booze alone if you only opened the booze stockpiles for a limited amount of time each year, if a single drink is enough to reset sobriety to zero.

[TruePikachu]

I think the challenge is to surive without modding.

[Girlinhat]

You could run a fort on mead and imported booze alone if you only opened the booze stockpiles for a limited amount of time each year, if a single drink is enough to reset sobriety to zero.

Imported booze is still from plants, that's not kosher!

[TruePikachu]

What about vamping the whole fort?

[Splint]

What about vamping the whole fort?

Vampires = eventually near zero productivity due to them more than likely nomming all the dorfs who weren't vampires fairly quickly. And I believe for the purposes of this the only modding allowed is making milk a drinkable alcoholic product to counter mead's low production rate and low amounts of imported booze (since it'll probably get sucked down rapidly, especially if you request heavy stuff.)

And personally I view imported booze as acceptable because you had to buy it and it will likely be in limited quantities, you didn't just dump some seeds in the ground and wait to brew some purple shroom wine. Of course buying edible plants would be a no-no.

With milk as a drinkable source, a moderately sized herd of sheep/pigs supplemented by poultry/eggs and beekeeping products could easily sustain fort with silk, wool, and leather being able to take care of clothing needs. Of course keeping the sheep fed would require either a large overland area walled off to protect the herd or an early cavern breach and large underground pastures once the flock grows to a certain size.

Also, roads could be used to clear shrubs. Place and then uproot and fresh grass/saplings may spring up!

[mek42]

My current perfect world has a level thirteen beekeeper.  I may as well try making some hives to see how painful mead making will be.

If I take up my own challenge, is there a community standard at how long one must survive to claim success?

[Splint]

Could set it to say, 15 years?

[dresdor]

Regarding making drink from animal blood....I think that should be added as a job to the screw press.

I'd like a fresh squeezed llama please.

[WanderingKid]

Splint,

GirlInHat's reasoning is due to the Vegan reasoning of never using anything from animal life.  This gets down to checking the labels on canned goods to see what form of preservatives are used.  If you're going Anti-Vegan, I agree with the argument that if it's plant based, you can't use it.

My concern here, though, is beds.  While modding milk as a fermentable item makes sense, we need stone and/or metal beds.  Also, bins are right out, unless you want your poor dorfs trying to haul around copper bins.  I'll have to doublecheck if you can make metal wheelbarrows, but those may be out too.

I would recommend the allowance and usage of logs only in those cases where the tree must be removed due to pathing problems, particularly towards the anti-vegan idea of the challenge.   It's quite possible to end up with trees blocking depot access and/or maneuvers in the caverns, though most can be mined around except in the case of narrow walkways between water.

[mek42]

Splint,

GirlInHat's reasoning is due to the Vegan reasoning of never using anything from animal life.  This gets down to checking the labels on canned goods to see what form of preservatives are used.  If you're going Anti-Vegan, I agree with the argument that if it's plant based, you can't use it.

My concern here, though, is beds.  While modding milk as a fermentable item makes sense, we need stone and/or metal beds.  Also, bins are right out, unless you want your poor dorfs trying to haul around copper bins.  I'll have to doublecheck if you can make metal wheelbarrows, but those may be out too.

I would recommend the allowance and usage of logs only in those cases where the tree must be removed due to pathing problems, particularly towards the anti-vegan idea of the challenge.   It's quite possible to end up with trees blocking depot access and/or maneuvers in the caverns, though most can be mined around except in the case of narrow walkways between water.

As the OP, I think logs are allowed because elves won't buy them or anything made from them.  You have to kill the tree to chop off a log.  (That sounds dirty.)  I suppose since the shrub goes away after being gathered ... gah!  Who let me drink the elf blood?!  I'm being infected, my vampirism is fading, I can tolerate the daylight, but my beard, it is shriveling up, my ears are growing pointy and, oh no, it cannot be - I just got a happy thought from looking at a tree!!  AAAAGGGHHH!

[acetech09]

Regarding making drink from animal blood....I think that should be added as a job to the screw press.

I'd like a fresh squeezed llama please.

Dorf patron: I'd like the... Canard au Sang.
Dorf hostess: We will begin cooking that right away.
Dorf patron: It's cooked?

[WanderingKid]

As the OP, I think logs are allowed because elves won't buy them or anything made from them.  You have to kill the tree to chop off a log.  (That sounds dirty.)  I suppose since the shrub goes away after being gathered ... gah!  Who let me drink the elf blood?!  I'm being infected, my vampirism is fading, I can tolerate the daylight, but my beard, it is shriveling up, my ears are growing pointy and, oh no, it cannot be - I just got a happy thought from looking at a tree!!  AAAAGGGHHH!

Someone get this man a keg of Rum, STAT!

[Splint]

I was under the impression the limitation was on what the dwarves could eat/grow themselves. So unless trees are edible, I don't really see the problem there. Besides, as far as importing alcohol goes, it tends to get low priority if you don't explicitly ask for it or if you request a lot of other heavy stuff (giant animals, ore, or lots of metal bars for example.)

Of course a further requirement would have to be no actively requesting it; you can buy what they bring For supply and productivity's sake, but more for the latter, but can't go out of your way to request it. For example, a caravan from home brought 6 barrels of booze one year, and 7 another, and 4 the next, that's your booze from those caravans. And with a moderate-to-large population such a meager supply won't last long (hell they probably wouldn't last more than a season, if that long, if you had say 65 dwarves.) Same goes for the other caravans. By not requesting it, it'd be an unreliable supplement at best, especially if you import lots of animals, ore, stone, and metal to take up space on the carts/animals.

Thsis would also require you to maintain a specific population to make sure supply is too scarce from caravans to be reliable without other booze sources. Between mead, imports, and fermented milk that should be enough to at least take care of most of the fort, but a water source would still be needed since dwarves are sponges for booze and the supply will dry up rapidly with a moderate population.

I'm kinda ranting/repeating myself, but still. Trees aren't food so who cares about them?

[Halfling]

You're so keen on fermenting milk when it's not known if it's necessary yet.


Theory:

Considering this: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User_talk:SethCreiyd
and the fact that vampire slow does not appear to come very fast (I admit to not having any statistics) -- You should be able to avoid the worst effects of alcohol withdrawal if you can import and brew in mead either 2x or minimally 1x your population number units of alcohol every year. Open the doors to the wine cellar for one month of summer and optionally for christmas only.

Also, children and babies don't need alcohol - they do nothing useful anyway. Lower class citizens like fish dissectors probably don't need as much either, so station them elsewhere when you have limited booze and are about to let dwarves drink. So if you assume one third of your fort is children, one third is second class citizens that get half booze rations, and one third is useful dwarves you want to keep in the vicinity of optimum condition... we're looking at approximately 100-200 units of drink per year? If you get those 6+7+4 booze barrels from caravans that's already 85 units. And you'll probably get more from the dwarves if all you order is booze.

You don't need exact reliability because dwarves don't die from not getting their alcohol or having to wait a while. Brewing must of course happen behind an airlock so as to avoid any unnecessary mobs of thirsty dwarves invading the still.

[Sutremaine]

You might be able to do it on mead alone, though there would come a point where leaving the booze available for the month or so required for everyone to have a taste will exhaust the supply before everyone gets a turn at the barrel.

Assuming 30 hives for harvesting and 10 for splitting (not sure if this is a good ratio, but let's start somewhere), you will get 150 units of booze a season. Dwarves drink 4 times a season, so you have enough mead to keep about 35 dwarves permanently drunk. If you open the booze stockpiles for one month per season, you can keep about 110 dwarves on the verge of partial sobriety.