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Author Topic: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy  (Read 4398 times)

NES630

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LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« on: August 19, 2013, 04:57:32 pm »

Alright, time to propose a new addition to LCS that has been bugging me for a while. With the National LCS Beta up, this seems more possible than it used to be. This is also a rather lengthy suggestion, so here's a preemptive TL;DR: BOATS. WE NEED MOAR BOATS.

Now, first off, some practical information. Cities that this suggestion would apply to would be geographically coastal or adjacent to a major body of water in the United States. Certain cities would also be able to handle large boats while other cities cannot. I'd list examples, but suggesting you look at a decently detailed map serves that purpose without having to list every major city.

For starters, areas accessible by boat instead or alongside of foot or land vehicle would be for the most part randomized, with the exception of major landmarks of certain cities. Case in point, a Statue of Liberty location would only be accessible by boat. Boats would come in several sizes and types, similar to cars but not entirely. A suggestive list could work as follows for small boats:

Kayak - Easier to find and steal than candy from a Conservative baby. Seats one and pretty slow, unless the user is incredibly athletic.

Rowboat - Seats a whole squad, similar speed and steal system as a Kayak but usually slower.

Sailboat - Below Average difficulty to steal, fits a whole squad, average-ish speed.

Speedboat - Basically the same as the Sportscar, but a boat.

Police Patrol Boat - A police vehicle for waterways. These will chase you during escape attempts.

Instead of driving skill, you'd have a seperate but similar Sailing attribute that affects the effectiveness of these vehicles. Newly created Pirate(Sea-based Gang Member), Sailor, Navy Sailor, Naval Captain, or Sea Captains would all have high sailing attribute, and it can be learned in the University and improved with experience.

Now, for the more interesting concept. Not only should small boats be jackable, but medium sized to massive vessels as well. The system for jacking these would be similar to an infiltration or CSS safehouse raid. These vessels would be in a new section of the city known as the Seaport, which would exist purely for coastal cities. To jack these ships, you'll need incredible Sailing skill or a Sea/Naval captain. The boats that would be usable would be the following:

Freighter - Has some sailors, laborers,small amounts of security,and one captain at the helm. Loot is mostly industrial items from shipping crates that can be used.

Cruise Ship - Massive, with several floors and rooms. First floor and deck are wide, open space, while the rest of the ship has a structure similar to an apartment complex. Filled with Tourists and Security. Valuable loot similar to what's in the Downtown Apartments can be found. Either expensive tickets or a forcible entry through the security area are required to board this ship.

Air Carrier - Very rarely can you find these in a given city, though the USS Intrepid is a guaranteed example of these for starting in NYC. With the exception of the Intrepid, which has a Cruise Ship type population, air carriers are FULL of naval personnel, and jacking these will require tons of stealth or weapons skill. These ships come preinstalled with anti-aircraft guns. These also have accelerated heat accumulation, as do all other naval vessels.

Battleship - Like an Air Carrier, but armed with powerful guns that can be used to combat other large vessels.

Nuclear Submarine - Like the other naval vessels, but has torpedos for combat with other vessels, and can be submerged to generate less heat. Submersion reduces the chance of encountering other vessels at sea.

Now, the final feature: Large vessels, once captured, act as mobile safehouses. They have almost all the upgradability of safehouses, and can host a pirate radio station as a parallel to the Liberal Guardian. They can move from coastal city to coastal city, or even out to the Pacific/Atlantic Ocean based on which coast they were jacked from. On the ocean, most actions are unavailable, but they can make randomized encounters with other ships you can board or attack, along with sieges from naval vessels. These would come every few days unless submerged as a submarine.

So, do we want to sail the seas, or stick with converting landlubbers to the Liberal Cause?

EDIT: Moving into the ocean can also deplete the safehouse boat's food based on the amount of Liberals stationed there, and upgrades/resupplies are only available on land.

ADDITIONAL SUGGESTIONS LIST

Propman's Combat Suggestion
Maintaining the Vessel
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 08:08:50 pm by NES630 »
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Liberal Elitist

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2013, 03:22:17 am »

Yes I've been thinking about adding something similar as well, and read another feature request for this (not sure if it was by you or someone else). If this gets implemented, it will happen gradually, just as multi-city mode is being implemented gradually, since adding boats is a little complicated. But I don't really see any reason not to do it. Yes, it's complicated, but it doesn't have to be implemented all at once.
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ed boy

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2013, 11:41:36 am »

I could see relocatable safehouses having uses beyond boats. Haven't you always wanted to pull a die hard and keep your hacking squad in the back of a truck to avoid heat?
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NES630

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 12:31:33 pm »

I could see relocatable safehouses having uses beyond boats. Haven't you always wanted to pull a die hard and keep your hacking squad in the back of a truck to avoid heat?

Squad-sized trailer truck safehouses? Now we are getting somewhere...
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Jboy2000000

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 06:08:48 pm »

Never has a thread made me squeal before. All of this, all of this would be awesome.
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Propman

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 07:15:26 pm »

This idea sounds mighty interesting.

Perhaps combat between ships can work similar to the game Battleship, where upon picking enemy ships upon radar, you and they are given a rough idea on where everything is located, where you can either chose to move up close in order to spot the ships manually for sure shots, or play a guessing game and shoot at them from afar. Maybe also add destroyers and/or frigates as smaller but faster large ships armed with guns or missiles respectively, mainly encountered as adversaries for ACs and BBs once you capture one.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 07:33:48 pm by Propman »
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NES630

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 07:54:24 pm »

This idea sounds mighty interesting.

Perhaps combat between ships can work similar to the game Battleship, where upon picking enemy ships upon radar, you and they are given a rough idea on where everything is located, where you can either chose to move up close in order to spot the ships manually for sure shots, or play a guessing game and shoot at them from afar. Maybe also add destroyers and/or frigates as smaller but faster large ships armed with guns or missiles respectively, mainly encountered as adversaries for ACs and BBs once you capture one.

I fully endorse this suggestion. It will be linked to in the main thread.

Also, an edit, for another addendum to the main idea. To improve realism, a bunch of liberals with sailing and engineering skills should be required to station in the large ships before leaving becomes feasible, and the new passive activity "Tend to Vessel" should become available when operating from these safehouse. Sailors that are sleepers on captured vessels will automatically activate so they can be allocated to this activity. Failure to do so could result in a breakdown to one or several of the ship's systems, stranding or even sinking the vessel. And if your ship is sunk, some crew will randomly survive and be moved to "lifeboats", which can either capsize after a few days or end up in a random coastal city.

This is to make it more of an endeavor to maintain these behemoths, and not something liberals can do right off the bat.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 08:04:49 pm by NES630 »
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KA101

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 11:50:54 pm »

I kinda-know a freighter captain IRL.  Last I heard he ran the Persian Gulf.  Freighters actually have lockdown features around the bridge, saferooms, that sort of thing, and in areas with significant amounts of violence I'd expect corporate Mercenaries or perhaps even Soldiers (perhaps the freighter's got military cargo?) providing backup.

Interesting idea, but will likely be Hollywood at best.

(Any navy vessel, and probably cruise ships due to the potential hostage situation, would be an automatic promotion directly to SEAL attacks, or at least schedule one in 1-3 days and have SWAT respond immediately.  No tanks, but still...this situation IS what the SEALs are trained for.)
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Jboy2000000

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 02:40:19 am »

I live near a military base, so I know a lot of marines and Navy personal, and they share some stuff about what military ships are like, if you ever want a little info of what they look like.
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NES630

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 07:00:29 am »

I live near a military base, so I know a lot of marines and Navy personal, and they share some stuff about what military ships are like, if you ever want a little info of what they look like.

I've only been on a carrier (Intrepid), so this knowledge would be good to have if we want to form decently accurate maps. Just make sure what you tell us is declassified and all, or basically dated beyond importance.
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Jboy2000000

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 07:37:52 am »

The only thing Ive been on personally was a WWII cruiser, but what I can give a map of is more modern military transport and cargo ships, which are pretty much the same thing.

Frontward bay is where most cargo is, mostly medical and ammo supply crates.
Inside that is usually just stairs to the upper and lower deck. Upper deck is a small area for captain and crewmates to monitor radio transmissions and navigation, as well as room for keeping and maintaining the needed equipment.
Lower deck is crew quarters, for bunk rooms, sick bay, personal ship supply room where cleaning supplies and other things are kept, the mess hall where they eat, lower, lower deck is where they keep more sensitive cargo, like weapons and live ammunition. Mostly it goes like these from what they say.

Key

= Space S=Stairs B=Bunkroom M=Mess hall +=Sick bay C=Captaining room. &=Cargo room.

CCCCCCCC
S====       &&&&&&&&&&&
SBBBBBBBBBBMM+BBBBBBB
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

Top-Down

Captaining

CCCCCCCCC
CCCCCCCCC
CCCCCCCCC

Stairwell

SS=====SS
SS=====SS
=========
=========

Crew room

BB=BB
MM=MM
++=++
BB=BB

Lower

CCCCC
CCCCC
CCCCC
CCCCC

As far as I know, heres what the rooms are like.

The captain's hall is a room where the pilot and charter courses, as well as give and receive any information needed, some equipment is also kept aboard there in locked doors.

The bunk rooms are fairly comfortable bunk beds where two soldiers can sleep. A few metal chairs and tables are also kept there for off time, as well as anything the soldiers have stored there in personal, secure lockers.

The eating hall is a serving table, with a back room where they keep all the food and cooking supplies, some tables bolted to the ground, and thats about it.

Med bay is a small room with a few hospital beds, its basically a cramped hospital with all the medical cabinets accessible by the doctors near the beds.

The last lower bay is basically just a dark, damp room where the keep everything they don't feel safe keeping topside.

Not the best, but the best I could do off hand. If you want, I could give a better a better representation of an army base to, but the one Im near is the joint super base, as they call.
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Liberal Elitist

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 11:06:58 am »

This feature request is getting a just a wee bit too intricate and complicated. Anyway I have a question. Most boats are not sailboats. So should the skill for using boats be called "Boating" or "Sailing"? The first step towards implementing boating is, of course, adding that skill, but first we need a name for it. I'm leaning towards "Boating", since most ships aren't sailboats. When boats are first introduced they'll just be simple things to get from point A to point B across bodies of water, even simpler than cars, since cars have car chases but boat chases can't be implemented until AFTER we have the Boating/Sailing skill, have several types of boats that can be used for transport across bodies of water, and have that all set up (requiring new functions, variables, and a new Boat class, among other things). Once we get the basics implemented, THEN we can start worrying about the more complicated stuff. So the first order of business is getting the name for the Boating/Sailing skill. And also, what skill should it be based on? Agility, just like Driving, is what I think. You have to be agile to know how to move something around and be able to do it fast with good coordination. That would be a better fit than, say, Intelligence or Strength.
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Edit: Figured it out via a little bit of trial and error and oH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT THE HECK IS IT SPACEBALLS MUSIC? WHATEVER IT IS IT IS MAGICAL

NES630

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2013, 02:54:13 pm »

This feature request is getting a just a wee bit too intricate and complicated. Anyway I have a question. Most boats are not sailboats. So should the skill for using boats be called "Boating" or "Sailing"? The first step towards implementing boating is, of course, adding that skill, but first we need a name for it. I'm leaning towards "Boating", since most ships aren't sailboats. When boats are first introduced they'll just be simple things to get from point A to point B across bodies of water, even simpler than cars, since cars have car chases but boat chases can't be implemented until AFTER we have the Boating/Sailing skill, have several types of boats that can be used for transport across bodies of water, and have that all set up (requiring new functions, variables, and a new Boat class, among other things). Once we get the basics implemented, THEN we can start worrying about the more complicated stuff. So the first order of business is getting the name for the Boating/Sailing skill. And also, what skill should it be based on? Agility, just like Driving, is what I think. You have to be agile to know how to move something around and be able to do it fast with good coordination. That would be a better fit than, say, Intelligence or Strength.

Boating is probably a better name, and it really is an "agility" activity with a similar skillset to driving. And I'm fine with simple test implementation. Let's just make sure it's something that adds to the game in positive ways and doesn't become an afterthought feature.
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Felius

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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2013, 09:54:44 am »

I'd go with one skill for motorized boats and one for muscle powered boats. Or making muscle powered go with athletics, at least in part.
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Re: LCS at Sea: Twice the Piracy, only 10% of the Scurvy
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2013, 11:48:23 am »

This feature request is getting a just a wee bit too intricate and complicated. Anyway I have a question. Most boats are not sailboats. So should the skill for using boats be called "Boating" or "Sailing"? The first step towards implementing boating is, of course, adding that skill, but first we need a name for it. I'm leaning towards "Boating", since most ships aren't sailboats. When boats are first introduced they'll just be simple things to get from point A to point B across bodies of water, even simpler than cars, since cars have car chases but boat chases can't be implemented until AFTER we have the Boating/Sailing skill, have several types of boats that can be used for transport across bodies of water, and have that all set up (requiring new functions, variables, and a new Boat class, among other things). Once we get the basics implemented, THEN we can start worrying about the more complicated stuff. So the first order of business is getting the name for the Boating/Sailing skill. And also, what skill should it be based on? Agility, just like Driving, is what I think. You have to be agile to know how to move something around and be able to do it fast with good coordination. That would be a better fit than, say, Intelligence or Strength.

"Boating" would be an amibiguous term, as in the English language, as far as I know, it's normally used for rowing and/or punting.  See 19th century books set around Universities and such.  Motorboating would be better, in my opinion.

And it should be more intelligence based, because manœvring for mooring off and passing locks can be quite complicated.  For instance, when in reverse, you have to realise at minimal speed the turning of the propeller will drag the stern to the left (as seen from behind).  You also have to consider which direction the wind will be coming from when moored, if you'll need to anchor to keep the boat from being bashed against the quay all night.  For instance, did you know, that when a Supertanker is aiming to moor at Rotterdam (the Netherlands), it has to put  the engines in reverse around the time they pass the Calais-Dover line?  Yes, shortest distance is way shorter, but that'd be likely to wreck engines and shafts.

My 2 ¢.
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