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Poll

Best ship?

AngelxAlistair (Toy ship ahoy!)
- 2 (8.7%)
RichardxCyrielle (Yes, she's a side character. No, that does not make this any less cute.)
- 0 (0%)
MariaxSelinaxYurixNuriel (HAREM)
- 5 (21.7%)
RichardxCamille (The only couple who knew each other for longer than two months. Woo~)
- 1 (4.3%)
AshleyxConnyxNurielxBismuth (OPPOSING HAREM)
- 1 (4.3%)
LylexEveryone (An Uke and five Semes. Go figure.)
- 2 (8.7%)
AlistairxCatherine (Minako, eat your heart out.)
- 0 (0%)
MariaxSelina (The original, accept no substitutes.)
- 1 (4.3%)
LyleXRichard (Too much yuri, not enough yaoi.)
- 1 (4.3%)
IzzyxLucas (Because a normal tsundere is not enough.)
- 1 (4.3%)
WillxStella (*insert witty tagline here*)
- 2 (8.7%)
MariexEveryone (Marie, duh.)
- 2 (8.7%)
AshleyXRichard (Screw retcons, I want my OTP now!)
- 1 (4.3%)
MariaxMattxSelina (The original OT3. And who was Matt again?)
- 2 (8.7%)
Richard/CyriellexFourth Wall (Who didn't see this coming?)
- 2 (8.7%)

Total Members Voted: 23


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Author Topic: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: MOAR LAMPSHADES PLEASE  (Read 1023721 times)

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6240 on: February 07, 2014, 11:55:14 am »

The big one?
Our actions meant nothing. The battle would have had the exact same outcome as it would have had if everyone was playing Solitaire or Monopoly during the battle.
Even worse: The battle meant nothing. It was completely pointless and had almost no effect on the rest of plot.
You have a point. Aside from the destruction of the house, the death of Ashley, and the kidnapping of Shys'm Caes (which didn't really need a battle), what happened?
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Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6241 on: February 07, 2014, 11:58:12 am »

yeah, that was simply the effect of the angels having gigantic stats. But I don't take offense in that. If they are seraphim that are simply head and shoulder above even extraordinary mortals, they can have stats that reflect that. Remember Ra. From the getgo we decides against actually fighting that guy, because he is simply out of the league for mortals to fight. similar with the seraphim, though less so




for some fights, that's just how it goes. A level 1DnD character doesnt complain about not being able to kill an elder dragon either. Our power level was simply not high enough - and yes, it's a bit questionable to throw us enemies like that at this stage - but it's not taboo either.


as for the battle no mattering - it did serve to illustrate that Shis'm caes, who is usualy rather carefree, was unwilling to go, and in the end only agreed to go as a sacrifice to save all of our lives. Doing so creates a sense of urgency, that what these angels are about to do must be stopped


of course Kyle and Will totaly failed to notice that, and immediatly assumed that it will all be fine, because caes is their boss - eventhough Dumah clearly stated they didnt recognise the sealed form as her boss.
that being said, Shis'm Caes is not a very likeable character, and hardly involved with the group. rescueing Caes is more done *out of principle* than because we like caes so much


what I am actually annoyed with is that the conclusion of the plot was done by a single character alone - now that is not fair. Even if the solution is diplomatic, it should take more than just the arguements given by a single player to change someones mind
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6242 on: February 07, 2014, 12:07:01 pm »

yeah, that was simply the effect of the angels having gigantic stats. But I don't take offense in that. If they are seraphim that are simply head and shoulder above even extraordinary mortals, they can have stats that reflect that.
Which doesn't make up for the fact that it was terrible writing.

Quote
Remember Ra. From the getgo we decides against actually fighting that guy, because he is simply out of the league for mortals to fight. similar with the seraphim, though less so
for some fights, that's just how it goes. A level 1DnD character doesnt complain about not being able to kill an elder dragon either. Our power level was simply not high enough - and yes, it's a bit questionable to throw us enemies like that at this stage - but it's not taboo either.
Note how Ra was actually, you know, not being aggressive with little to no provocation.
And how the actions of all (online) characters had an effect in the ensuing diplomacy scene.

Quote
as for the battle no mattering - it did serve to illustrate that Shis'm caes, who is usualy rather carefree, was unwilling to go, and in the end only agreed to go as a sacrifice to save all of our lives. Doing so creates a sense of urgency, that what these angels are about to do must be stopped
I thought it more illustrated that Shys'm Caes was an idiot, because she could have surrendered any time before that. It's not like we were doing great, then suddenly the core of our strategy collapsed.

Quote
of course Kyle and Will totaly failed to notice that, and immediatly assumed that it will all be fine, because caes is their boss - eventhough Dumah clearly stated they didnt recognise the sealed form as her boss.
More that we were aware that Shys'm could do more to them than we could.
...What was Shys'm doing during the battle, anyways?

Quote
what I am actually annoyed with is that the conclusion of the plot was done by a single character alone - now that is not fair. Even if the solution is diplomatic, it should take more than just the arguements given by a single player to change someones mind
Actually...well, I've said it, but I'll say it again.
Pretty much everything of import was done by ragnarok.
Unstoppable, aggressive opponents? rag.
Shys'm agreeing to go with? rag.
Yuri's big argument that seemed to convince the angels at last? rag.
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Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6243 on: February 07, 2014, 12:09:57 pm »

Shis'm Caes spend a long time not ever having to worry about defeat, given how old she is, I have my doubts she is yet accustomed to the whole being sealed and weak thing


underestimating the angels and overestimating herself and the group is a mistake that she could make, a harsh lesson learned
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kj1225

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6244 on: February 07, 2014, 12:11:50 pm »

I call bullshit on that last one. They didn't do or say a thing to indicate Yuri convinced them. They didn't say anything qbout any of the testimonies.

In short, your nitpicking.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6245 on: February 07, 2014, 12:37:29 pm »

Shis'm Caes spend a long time not ever having to worry about defeat, given how old she is, I have my doubts she is yet accustomed to the whole being sealed and weak thing
underestimating the angels and overestimating herself and the group is a mistake that she could make, a harsh lesson learned
That would be a reasonable excuse, if Shys'm had done anything.

I call bullshit on that last one. They didn't do or say a thing to indicate Yuri convinced them. They didn't say anything qbout any of the testimonies.
Yet they mysteriously agreed after that, despite not showing the slightest sign of such from Kyle's testimonies. The implication's there.

Quote
In short, your nitpicking.
Maybe on that one thing, but...well...you haven't really covered the larger issue. I mean, even if we decide that Kyle did make a difference, that's a grand total of two players who had any impact whatsoever on this plot. This is supposed to be a game, not a cutscene.
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Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6246 on: February 07, 2014, 12:39:26 pm »

don't worry guys, I'll make sure to leave various pathways through my plots, though there are some key events of course that need to happen, unless the plot is to be cut incredibly short. But those only lead to the next phase of the plot, not to any final consequences.


I do note though that there is a handfull of combat. some can be avoided diplomaticaly, but sometimes some enemies just dont really care to listen unless you actively make them


compared to the plots seen so far, which were mostly just cutscenes, it's also a lot longer
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kj1225

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6247 on: February 07, 2014, 12:44:07 pm »

GWG Selina was last to testify. By the logic you're using Selina would have neen the main factor. And by the way, testimony from the supposed victim would be incredibly swaying in any desicion.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6248 on: February 07, 2014, 12:55:14 pm »

GWG Selina was last to testify. By the logic you're using Selina would have neen the main factor.
Argumentum ad absurdium, she barely said anything.

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And by the way, testimony from the supposed victim would be incredibly swaying in any desicion.
...Yes, but doesn't that strengthen the interpretation that it was Yuri's testimony that mattered?
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kj1225

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6249 on: February 07, 2014, 12:59:36 pm »

And your complainimg about the logical thing here?
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Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6250 on: February 07, 2014, 01:19:24 pm »

lets just leave it at that, Rag is a beginner GM. He usualy writes stories, and stories are just told, they are usualy not interactive.


naturaly, his first attempt at GMing would not be very satisfying. Is that a reason to just tear it all apart and say nope, that never happened?
It's a learning experience, Rags next plot will probably be better, and that's it.


so lets not dwell on it, and just make the best of the situation at hand. So the house being destroyed was forced on us, and the resolution of the plot as a whole was dissatisfactory for many. From an OOC perspective, meh, but in-game, it's an entirely reasonable event. Occasionaly stuff happens you don't like, you can't do much about it, and even once it's resolved it leaves a bitter after taste.


Not everything is candy and sunshine in magical girl land. Try to use it as an opportunity. How do the events effect Will and Nuriel? Especially Will has room for character growth here. He was away the entire time, and instead of actually trying to help his allies, only gave snarky remarks in server chat stuff. There's immediatly two scenarios that I could think about that could add debt to Will and his development in the future.


1) Seeing the devastation and sadness of his allies upon losing their home, Will could feel guilty about not being there to fight. Neferis is argueable less useful in a fight than even Will, but still gave it everything she had to defend her friends. Seeing someone act like that leaves room for going into yourself, and asking yourself *why* you didn't join in the fight. That kinda of thought can lead to the following point.


2) Will truely believes he is unable to do anything about the angels. But he is good at figuring stuff out, right? Maybe he should begin thinking about what would have been needed for there to be something done? Will could begin trying to find a way to make it so next time, he can defend his allies, like Neferis. Or he doesn't try to find a way. If he doesn't, why? Does Will not care enough about his friends? Is Will a pacifist who thinks violence can never solve a thing? Is Will maybe secretly a coward hiding behind a mask of snarky comments, who fears that should he try to fight, he might die, or that someone might actually realise his cowardice? Does he maybe have such a low sense of self-worth that he believes no matter what he does, he won't amount to anything anyway? Or maybe some entirely different motivation? How does Will deal with these emotions, and whom does he trust enough to talk about them with? What lies behind the exterior of loads and loads of snarky comments?




Giving a character weaknesses and insecurities and motivations is where the meat of character development lies, and a big event like Rag has, maybe unintentionaly, given us makes a perfect opportunity to expand upon it. Everybody can go lengths upon how awesome the strengths of their characters are, but when it comes to the kind of stuff that you don't introduce them with, stuff suddenly gets sparse.


And please don't say "But the rules were bullshit and unfair and blah". That's all in the meta. It's very important to strictly seperate meta knowledge from character knowledge, and your own personality from the character, unless it's seriously a self-insert. That also means sometime making a very risky, or plain wrong decision, because for the character it might seem not so.


Similar can be said about Kyle. What is behind all the additude as if he doesn't ever care about anything? When Hainuwele, who previously was mostly on Kyles side and did consider him a friend confronts him about being a traitor, is Kyles only emotional response really not understanding why anyone would be offended? Etc etc.


Get in the flow of the events and actually think about what it means to the characters, instead of caring about the meta, at all
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6251 on: February 07, 2014, 01:32:19 pm »

And your complainimg about the logical thing here?
No. I'm complaining about the writing, which made the actions of basically everyone except the GM meaningless.

lets just leave it at that, Rag is a beginner GM. He usualy writes stories, and stories are just told, they are usualy not interactive.
naturaly, his first attempt at GMing would not be very satisfying. Is that a reason to just tear it all apart and say nope, that never happened?
It's a learning experience, Rags next plot will probably be better, and that's it.
Does that mean we should be stuck with the outcome of decisions that no one except rag had any hand in?

Quote
-snip-
Again, I'm not complaining about the results*, only the process. The process that left us no room to interfere. Basically, if ragnarok had typed up a post at the beginning of her plot that informed us that the angels destroyed the house before a confrontation with them and Yuri's mother lead to Yuri taking over her family (and her mother dying), the results would have been exactly the same as they were here except that we wouldn't have wasted a week waiting for rag to run another combat turn..
I'm fine with challenges, but they shouldn't be forced onto us with our having no way to resist it.

*Except for the lack of character development output.


Oh, and your claims that Will is more useful in a fight than Neferis? Amusing. After all, Neferis is super-strong, and Will's only skill lets him guess at all the BS abilities the angels had to screw us with.
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6252 on: February 07, 2014, 01:35:15 pm »

Oh, and your claims that Will is more useful in a fight than Neferis? Amusing. After all, Neferis is super-strong, and Will's only skill lets him guess at all the BS abilities the angels had to screw us with.

Neferis has absolutely no Dexterity though and has trouble hitting anything that could move. Really, what we should do is make a harness for Will, so that he can ride on Neferis's back and direct her attacks with his powers.

...

No? :P
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6253 on: February 07, 2014, 01:42:13 pm »

Oh, and your claims that Will is more useful in a fight than Neferis? Amusing. After all, Neferis is super-strong, and Will's only skill lets him guess at all the BS abilities the angels had to screw us with.
Neferis has absolutely no Dexterity though and has trouble hitting anything that could move. Really, what we hould do is make a harness for Will, so that he can ride on Neferis's back and direct her attacks with his powers.

...

No? :P
Yeah, no.
Besides, if we want to improve Will's combat abilities, you know wht we should do?
Get him a gun. He was damn good with that sniper rifle back in the crossover.
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Twi

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v2 OOC: Oh mah gawd, the angst!
« Reply #6254 on: February 07, 2014, 01:44:28 pm »

Yeah, that'd be good.

Anyways, Marie's combat sim is waiting for two people to try it out. And me to flesh it out more. So yeah, thinking we might want to add a sixth stat, basically the equivalent of END but for magic.

Much thoughts! Very open source! wow.
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