Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[CR055H41RZ]

This thread should cover things from Japanese-soviet N.A.P. (if the Japanese had invaded the USSR could the Russians have held up, and what resources did the Japanese have to spare at the time of the signing?)- axis invasion of north Africa (Military significance, resources there?), axis invasion of the caucuses (since it was the turning point of the war in Europe) and probably more topics (here's one: Why not use the pigeon/bat bomb? speculations).
edit: let's start with the first question.

[misko27]

Probably the reason Skinner said: "No one would take us seriously."


What was the military significance of Africa? I mean, other then the British having it? Presumably the eventual invasion of Italy?

[XXSockXX]

What was the military significance of Africa? I mean, other then the British having it? Presumably the eventual invasion of Italy?

The other way round. Attacking the British to distract them and force them to send forces there, thus preventing an invasion of Europe.

[Jopax]

Not sure about the pigeons but the bat bomb thing backfired and burned an airbase or a hangar or something, and by that time the Manhattan project was well underway so it was deemed unneeded and cancelled.

[mainiac]

What was the military significance of Africa? I mean, other then the British having it? Presumably the eventual invasion of Italy?

Reason one was the Suez canal.  The Brits controlled Gibraltar so the Germans couldn't had trouble get subs and couldn't get cruiser-raiders into the Mediterranean while the Italian fleet got smashed in the opening days of Italy's belligerency.  That made the Suez canal a massively valuable asset.  Convoys from India and Australia could save a lot of time by going to Suez instead of going round South Africa.  On the other hand if the Germans controlled Suez, their sub attacks would have been way more effective.

Reason number two is that Iraq and Persia were great sources of oil.  The Germans desperately, desperately wanted sources of oil besides Romania, which hit peak oil in 1943 IIRC.  We often forget because the war was ending anyway, but the Germans completely ran out of oil by the end of the war.  If not for the rapid shrinkage of their armed forces and the oil seized when Italy surrendered, the Germans would have run out of oil faster.  The Germans were thus willing to gamble an awful lot on trying to get oil fields from Iraq or Baku.

This thread should cover things from Japanese-soviet N.A.P. (if the Japanese had invaded the USSR could the Russians have held up, and what resources did the Japanese have to spare at the time of the signing?)

Japan actually did run out of oil and had a ridiculously overstrained merchant marine throughout the war.  They could have seized Vladistock but what would they have done after that, driven into Siberia and died of hypothermia when they ran out of oil to truck materials to the front?  Yes, they would have tied up a few divisions that were historically transfered west and took part in the first Soviet winter offensive.  But I suspect it wouldn't have made all that much difference on the German-Soviet front.  I definitely don't think that would have been enough to tip the balance in the favor of the Germans.

[Culise]

This thread should cover things from Japanese-soviet N.A.P. (if the Japanese had invaded the USSR could the Russians have held up, and what resources did the Japanese have to spare at the time of the signing?)

Japan actually did run out of oil and had a ridiculously overstrained merchant marine throughout the war.  They could have seized Vladistock but what would they have done after that, driven into Siberia and died of hypothermia when they ran out of oil to truck materials to the front?  Yes, they would have tied up a few divisions that were historically transfered west and took part in the first Soviet winter offensive.  But I suspect it wouldn't have made all that much difference on the German-Soviet front.  I definitely don't think that would have been enough to tip the balance in the favor of the Germans.

Indeed.  It's also worth remembering that the IJA had also just been thoroughly whomped at Khalkhyn Gol just two years before Barbarossa.  We can easily extrapolate from that campaign just how well the IJA would have likely fought compared to a Far East Army that was far from the peak of its game, still rebuilding discipline from the uncertainty of the Great Purges and sitting on the end of a long supply line in a low-priority area.  In essence, it does not look good for the Japanese forces, whose subsequent fighting in China showed no evidence of any lessons learned from their mistakes in this abortive undeclared war.  Of course, to be fair, the Japanese seemed to take enough lessons from it to decide solidly on the IJN's southern strategy after this battle and the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. 

[gimlet]

One oddity of the war was that about 50% of the US Lend-Lease aid to the USSR went right past Japan into Vladivostok -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_route_%28Lend-Lease%29  The US even transferred cargo ships to the USSR so they could sail under the USSR flag and thus take advantage of the USSR-Japan neutrality agreement.  Although even interrupting this route wouldn't have been anywhere near enough to swing the balance - the Allies would have worked harder on the Persian and Arctic routes for Lend-Lease, and the Japanese didn't like "wasting" submarines against mere merchant ships...

[Sheb]

But for Japan, helping Germany was always a vague, secondary goal at best. Japan wanted resources to feed its industry and needed Soviet neutrality to be able to keep China.

[Yannanth]

.

[XXSockXX]

The first post doesn't explicitely say "no European front questions", so I don't see a reason why you shouldn't ask.

[Flying Dice]

It isn't as if the thread is deeply involved in an ongoing discussion, so ask away. 

[CR055H41RZ]

It isn't as if the thread is deeply involved in an ongoing discussion, so ask away. 

reviving thread
most amazing true story about ww2?

[mainiac]

reviving thread
most amazing true story about ww2?

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2260#comic

[Steelmagic]

It isn't as if the thread is deeply involved in an ongoing discussion, so ask away. 

reviving thread
most amazing true story about ww2?

Raoul Wallenberg, a Swedish diplomat who did this according to one of his drivers.

he climbed up on the roof of the train and began handing in protective passes through the doors which were not yet sealed. He ignored orders from the Germans for him to get down, then the Arrow Cross men began shooting and shouting at him to go away. He ignored them and calmly continued handing out passports to the hands that were reaching out for them. I believe the Arrow Cross men deliberately aimed over his head, as not one shot hit him, which would have been impossible otherwise. I think this is what they did because they were so impressed by his courage. After Wallenberg had handed over the last of the passports he ordered all those who had one to leave the train and walk to the caravan of cars parked nearby, all marked in Swedish colours. I don't remember exactly how many, but he saved dozens off that train, and the Germans and Arrow Cross were so dumbfounded they let him get away with it.

In short he gave (illegal) passports to Hungarian Jews heading for Auschwitz and then told the Germans that they had to let everyone with a Swedish passport go. He had no legal right to do any of that but they let him go anyway.

[Sheb]

You had that Japanese diplomats in one of the Baltic country that handed out tons of passports too.