Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning  (Read 6022 times)

MoLAoS

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« on: August 12, 2013, 10:45:43 pm »

This is a project I've been working on for a year or so and I am at the point where I have the engine mostly ready. I started with the open source Glest Advanced Engine, itself a fork of the Glest engine. I have so far heavily modified several aspects to suit my needs. I'll be continuing to modify it going forward but mainly for later projects.

The first actual game I am working on is the one named in the title. This game is going to be a kingdom simulation system loosely inspired by Majesty, CK2, Vicky2, Dominions 3, Academagia, and Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom.

The game is in a genre I term exploratory strategy. What this means is that it is an RTSish game but has no place for real time tactics or competitive or even currently multiplayer features. It's primary focus is on managing your economy and using that economy to protect yourself from other societies of various kinds.

Your economy plays something like an Impressions city builder with houses and needs that you must meet to advance the quality and size of your populace. However unlike those games this is not the end condition. You will also be using the economy to produce the materials for the items that will empower your sovereign and your heroes.

Heroes are where Majesty comes in. Heroes are generally automated defenders of the kingdom. Some heroes and their Orders will contribute to magical and technological advancement as well as economic productions and goods.

In this game, and its sequels, heroes are part of Orders. These Orders may be Militant, Magical, Mechanical, or Mystical.

Spoiler: Orders (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Guilds (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Mystical Orders (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Militant Orders (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Mechanical Orders (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Magical Orders (click to show/hide)

Multi-classing is a complex but rewarding process. It can open up new magic, water/fire mages can use steam magic, and so forth.

Spoiler: Educated Citizens (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Concept Polarity (click to show/hide)

The game possesses a research system pretty similar to Dominions 3 in depth and breadth. Well, not quite as extensive perhaps. But spiritually similar. Your sovereign, basically a special character that is the only one totally controllable by you rather than automated to some degree, has several customizable capabilities besides the core stats of:

Spoiler: Knowledge (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Crafting (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Terrain Features (click to show/hide)

There is actually a lot of other stuff but this post is super long.
Logged

Girlinhat

  • Bay Watcher
  • [PREFSTRING:large ears]
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2013, 10:54:49 pm »

I hate to TL;DR this, because it seems like it's a lot to read and well fleshed-out, but some pics might help to get some idea of what the game is like beyond pure description.  Not that descriptions are bad, just that they can't convey certain facets of a game that come through visually.

MoLAoS

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2013, 11:07:08 pm »

I hate to TL;DR this, because it seems like it's a lot to read and well fleshed-out, but some pics might help to get some idea of what the game is like beyond pure description.  Not that descriptions are bad, just that they can't convey certain facets of a game that come through visually.

I am pretty much the WORST at visual media. I actually had to learn how to record and upload a youtube video for this project when I posted some early videos on the Glest forums.

2 Videos from about a year and 6 months ago respectively:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZe2R0LGQJY&feature=g-upl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoHTr4m37Bs&feature=youtu.be

SourceForge page, not super useful yet:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mandateengine/
This only has the provisional release which is pretty much not useful for anyone who doesn't already participate in the Glest forums.

GitHub Page, also not incredibly useful, does have copy of master branch:
https://github.com/MoLAoS/Mandate
I have a lot of changes to push to this and its not that useful for people who aren't programmers.

Since this project is open source and I am not an modeller or animator I am just using some CC licenses models from various factions created for Glest mods. Almost no one plays Glest so they aren't really used in any game you have heard of. They are not the best quality, compared to say 0AD but they aren't bad. Glest derivatives simply don't support a lot of the eye candy in 0AD.

I would probably have more videos if they could be recorded in debug and if it didn't take like 5 hours to upload one to Youtube.
Logged

MoLAoS

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 11:42:10 am »

I'd like to note that almost all the things described here have been implemented into the game logic. The only major remaining system is crafting, at which point I'll just be writing all the events and units and items and shit into XML for the game to load and maybe GIMPing some icons for stuff.
Logged

MoLAoS

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 01:31:10 pm »

Finally took a break from my 175 hours so far of EU4 to do some work on this. Got events spawning items, units, resources, changing stats and so forth. Mainly to finish them off I need to have them effectively target specific units, have timers, and add flags for one time or sequenced events.

Did my first commit in 2 months, about 6000 lines added and 2000 deleted. Most of the deletions were refactoring.

My remaining tasks before getting all the content set up are finishing events off, doing the item generation from crafting and having a class to generate new educated citizens with appropriate stats to be used by your guilds/orders/manufacturies.

Probably be done with events at Friday at the latest and maybe a week to do the other stuff.

Then maybe have time to record and upload, wee 4 hours youtube upload, some demonstration videos.

Then onto cleaning up the content. Almost all the conceptual aspects are done and all the models are pretty much ready as are the icons. Just gotta connect the new systems to the units/buildings/items.
Logged

Zangi

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 01:40:36 pm »

PTW, havn't looked at any of the links yet, but yea... it does sound like Majesty+Pharoah/Impression Games... tickles my fancy.
Logged
All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu...  This is the truth! This is my belief! ... At least for now...
FMA/FMA:B Recommendation

MoLAoS

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 01:45:37 pm »

PTW, havn't looked at any of the links yet, but yea... it does sound like Majesty+Pharoah/Impression Games... tickles my fancy.

It was originally going to be a demo game to demonstrate the wide spread of possible game mechanics for my engine, this was when it was mostly made for Glest people. The demo was a version of Majesty with more guild depth plus economy. Sadly my amazing powers of feature creep have expanded it far beyond that into an actual game.
Logged

MoLAoS

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2013, 08:54:42 pm »

Well, I finished getting the meat of the event system running. Just may want to add new triggers and results and shit.

Now I am trying to figure out the best way to handle educated citizen generation. I was thinking a check of needs met in the house spawning the citizen  including schools and shit to get a general education/culture level which gives an across the board stat boost.

Then check for nearby Orders/Guilds/Factories to get a predisposition value that boosts a few specific stats. What a unit/building/research/w.e boosts would be specified in the XML file for customizing goodness.

Finally I was thinking of being able to build special buildings/building addons to give specific boosts to an area. Maybe the pyromancer's guild has an outreach program to get the smartest people young or w/e. Some map objects might also boost certain stats. So living near a volcano would provide fire affinity.

This next part won't apply till I get much farther on the engine, which I'll be doing once I actually create the game this thread is about. But cultures and religions and races will provide affinities for certain things. This will be part of my work to expand the scale of the game beyond one 3D map like RTS or citybuilders normally have.

I'm still fiddling and working out the particulars but I expect to be done programming by sunday night and then I can move on to the final system, crafting.
Logged

MoLAoS

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2013, 08:49:39 pm »

I got a little distracted by my usual lack of focus and also the Bloc drama but I'm pretty much done with the engine work, at least for this particular game. Just doing a little last minute fiddling to deal with an issue I hadn't considered for crafting.

Once I get my current code changes to compile I am going to put together a faction that has a basic, but functioning, city building aspect. It will really only have a goal of creating functioning production chains. Then I'll start slowly building it up to creating important buildings and items and then eventually adding in Orders and Guilds to the economy and getting items and making better items. Then I'll start setting up the enemy faction gameplay.

I'm hoping that now that I can actually see stuff changing instead of fiddling in the C++ code that I'll be a lot more motivated to get work done, despite my hatred of editing XML data.
Logged

BlindKitty

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2013, 08:50:12 am »

Remember this thread from before, but I haven't posted yet. I don't know why - probably put it for later and forgot. Usual stuff. :) But I wanted to add a little bit of my insight, which is mostly: keep up the work. This is looking seriously great from what I read, and while I'm usually rather pessimistic about such ventures, I would be really glad if you could succeed with your goals.
Logged
My little roguelike craft-centered game thread. Check it out.

GENERATION 10: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

MoLAoS

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2013, 08:39:47 pm »

So its been almost a month, crazyness I know. I finally got my ADD meds from the doctor man, so once those kick in after a week more of low dose I should do way better.

Just kicked another push to GitHub today, fixing some problems I caused in the character generator thingy. Also earlier I added some stuff to automatic unit generation so it can scale as time goes on and I am slowly building up the full factions a few units at a time. Mostly balance testing and giving all 100 or w/e units the new XML so they can be loaded by the game.

Gonna try to do an Order, then some economics and repeat that until done. Also with some balance tossed in. I'll be adding the more specialized stuff for each order like enchanments and item production nearer the end. Probably the last thing I'll do is add the bonus powers from being near special map objects.

Aside from bug squashing and completing some things I only did half way I'm mostly done programming and moving on to just content.

Since this is my first game and has a lot of content and genre mashing I'll probably need a few weeks to months to balance everything once I add it all in. Although I'll probably release a beta type thing if people wanna test it out and maybe point me towards balance issues.

I'm hoping to have a beta by the 14th maybe? And maybe a second one on the 21st. And then use the second one to get balance feedback and of course I'll play a lot myself to find bugs and balance issues.
Logged

MoLAoS

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2013, 06:01:22 am »

Well I'm way behind where I thought I would be and I think I finally know why. I have no idea how to set up a scenario to get things balanced.

I played through a few Majesty campaign scenarios, Majesty 1 not the shitty sequel. One problem is definitely that mixing city building and majesty like kingdom defense throws things off.

Majesty has an almost non-existent economy and buildings barely interact. You basically drop your market right next to the castle entrance maybe build a blacksmith and place down a couple guilds and you are good to go.

I also noticed that enemies are not at all reactive. For instance in The Fertile Plains the waves come straight for your city with no deviation and they don't react depending on how well the earlier waves do and/or if they are still around. Missions also tend to be really short.

Since I'm adding a lot of citybuilding stuff and interaction between units, each game needs to last a lot longer. Maybe 4-8 hours. And I'm not sure how do deal with the fact that in Majesty you tend to hit a turning point after which you cannot lose and its only a matter of how hard you push your offensive to win faster. With a long build up per mission due to needing to get your city running and your choices of what stuff to build to matter, what if you hit the tipping point long before you win?

I was thinking that maybe since I'm using big maps anyways I can make it so that players can decide when to move forward. I dunno. I mean, I want to pressure the player expand by making it so that they need to capture and hold new territory that has new and better resources. Majesty was all about making one town and just walling in. Because splitting up made defense harder. I want to actually cause players to create a kingdom. Kingdoms are about resources and territory. But I'm not sure how to balance the pressure to expand with players being able to make decisions about how to progress.

I was thinking maybe you have until a certain amount of time before the enemy gets a large boost of creature types and there is a tradeoff. Securing a new area and new resources triggers/exposes you to a new level of threat separate from the time based threat level growth. You would want to be secure in your ability to handle this threat. However if you wait too long you won't have time to start utilizing the new resources before the time based threat increase and you'll be crushed.

But I'm still not sure how to do it exactly. I easily had a handle on the programming and the general ideas I wanted to use. But the balancing and testing are not something I'm sure I can figure out.
Logged

Zangi

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2013, 09:56:28 am »

Disease, famine, crime and unrest?  Instead of just throwing more/stronger enemies at you?

Bedridden soldiers/citizens can slow down everything and lower defenses.
Lack of food and people won't move as quick and die in the streets.
People transporting things inbetween buildings can be mugged.
Dissatisfied citizens may protest instead of work.


Depends on how much of an actual city builder you want it to be, how big the cities will get... how much of it you will have to defend.  How the enemy can get in.  And I guess damage can be minimal with good management and defenses.

Or... don't have the enemy AI beeline for the city like in majesty.  They show up/spawn outside your city and a few will gather up once there are enough of them... then they attack/raid.  Maybe their purpose isn't to destroy everything, but to steal things/disrupt things.  Steal things and then try to leave, with some staying behind to hold off defenders.  At least at first, especially if they are weaker then defending forces.

You can also send your soldiers out to kill them, delay the next attack or severely weaken it.  Destroy a fortified spawn point or two.  Perhaps special enemies who are leaders that bestow bonuses/tunnelers or whatever that can bypass your passive defenses like walls/rally the enemy can be killed. 
But, your soldiers are much more vulnerable out there, more likely to die/come back injured.  And the enemy may decide to do an impromptu raid from elsewhere while you are attacking.
Logged
All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu...  This is the truth! This is my belief! ... At least for now...
FMA/FMA:B Recommendation

MoLAoS

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2013, 11:57:48 am »

Well, I want to have a lot of units, so I can't really simulate everything in depth. For food and such I have lack of certain goods, foods, and services result in not getting the tax bonus for having them.

I can't simulate individuals enough to do crime or unrest. The citybuilder aspect is more like Emperor than Towns or Tropico or Clockwork Empires. Resource harvesting, production chains and so forth. With a crafting/magic system layered on top.

Enemies can't really form up, although I could add such a behavior with a lot of work. Currently they have a few behaviors. Some make a beeline for the nearest building, some for the nearest unit. Some only wait around in the wilderness till you come to attack, mainly using them as guards for bases. Some can defend their homes as well as themselves. There is also a range cap on some behaviors, so you may accidentally spur an attack by exploring the wilderness and then running back to base.

Also you can't really control your combat units. Well you could try the relatively weak city guards but I'm not sure they'd be able to do much.
Logged

Puzzlemaker

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Unaligned Mandate: Kingdoms of the Morning
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2013, 12:30:40 pm »

PTW, I will be checking this out when I get home.
Logged
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.
Pages: [1] 2 3